<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><head><meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 15 (filtered medium)"><style><!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:"Cambria Math";
panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0in;
font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;}
span.EmailStyle18
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
color:windowtext;}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;}
@page WordSection1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}
div.WordSection1
{page:WordSection1;}
--></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple style='word-wrap:break-word'><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b>From:</b> extropy-chat <extropy-chat-bounces@lists.extropy.org> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Rafal Smigrodzki via extropy-chat<br><br><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>---------------------------- <o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>On the other hand, given places like the Sahara, we can afford atrocious efficiency and still do what we need to do. That would be the ideal site to start making those 30 TWh of storage capacity, which I agree is needed. I stand with my prediction that a Sahara energy colony will predate and is prerequisite to any significant development on Mars.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>### I doubt it. The benefit of having a lot of cheap space and high insolation is offset by the cost of transmission to places that matter economically…<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Ja that is where you and I differ. If we create liquid fuels from coal or other carbon source (it doesn’t need to be coal (wood or any other plant source will do)) we can haul it aboard ships to anywhere on the planet economically. We are using the liquid fuel as a means of transmitting energy generated (or converted) in a place with lots of it going to waste.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>… by the cost of being located in a chaotic third world situation…<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Ja, but it does not need to stay a chaotic third world situation forever, and I am predicting that it will not. A developed nation (or in China’s case a perpetually developing nation) can buy a territory, defend it, convert it, enrich it, develop the hell out of it, create jobs, establish order from chaos. We have plenty of examples of it in history everywhere on the planet.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>> …And just to be clear, I am still in favor of using fossil fuels for as long as they are cheap enough, because fossil fuels are good for people and good for the planet.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Rafal<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Me too. They are well-suited for many applications. We can have an electrified economy and still use some liquid fuels for some purposes. What I have envisioned is supplying most of humanity’s energy needs using solar energy collected in the currently barren, deserted Sahara and transmitted everywhere in the form of synthetic octane and Diesel carried on well-defended ships.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>spike<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></body></html>