<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:large;color:#000000">Aesthetics: I have read quite a bit of it, trying to understand, and the philosophers have failed to make sense to me. For one thing, few if any art people would acknowledge that there are rules to what they are doing, and if there are rules, they will be happy to break them and flaunt them, or create new rules. Think of how some of us don't want to think of rap as music. Oh it's music, all right, just as highly inferior cartoons are visual art. How can one be creative while doing the same old things? Well, Michelangelo did it, Leonardo did it, Debussy did it (though he stretched music perhaps more than anyone else close to that time). Lots of people did it but their stuff didn't catch on. (someone will dig it up later and claim that it's genius work and some will buy into that - think of Grandma Moses, or are you too young?). </div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:large;color:#000000"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:large;color:#000000">Bottom line: great art is when I like it. Poor art is when I don't like it. But it is not, I think, a coincidence that what I think of as great is acknowledged as great by authorities. . Other things thought of as great by authorities, such as SChoenberg, I think of as maybe a good idea but poor execution (i.e. I don't like it). It's all opinion and no truth to be found. bill w</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Apr 30, 2022 at 11:13 AM spike jones via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div lang="EN-US" style="overflow-wrap: break-word;"><div class="gmail-m_5566993630019812475WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><div style="border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><b><u></u> <u></u></b></p><p class="MsoNormal">> <b>On Behalf Of </b>William Flynn Wallace via extropy-chat<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [ExI] gaming the system<u></u><u></u></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS"">>…<span style="color:black">You mean there's modern poetry with rhyme and rhythm? I quit taking the New Yorker and ATlantic Monthly partly because of the horrible poetry they publish - no rhymes, no meter, obscure in the meaning department. Of course you have 'lower level' stuff, like Breathe that I circulated, that the magazines would never print - literary profs would burn the issue in public as a protest against sensible poetry. bill </span>w<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS""><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS""><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS""><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS"">Billw, it is far too cynical a view you present sir. Sure, the rules of poetry have relaxed quite a bit from the days when Shakespeare was shaking the sonnets. This allows anything, aaaaaanything… to be consider poetry. All it takes is for the appropriate use of the return key and insertion of random punctuation. For instance, let’s take the following poem, written by… you:<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS""><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:black">You mean there's modern poetry with rhyme and rhythm?<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:black">I quit taking the New Yorker and Atlantic Monthly,<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:black">Partly because of the horrible poetry they publish.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:black">No rhymes! No meter! Obscure in the meaning department. <u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:black">Of course you have 'lower level' stuff, like Breathe<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:black">That I circulated, that the magazines would never print – <u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:black">Literary profs would burn the issue in public<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:black">As a protest against sensible poetry. <u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:black">bill </span><span style="font-size:18pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS"">w<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS""><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS"">Ah such subtle poetry! It inspires me to try. Here goes:<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS""><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS"">There once was a lad named Bill Wallace<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS"">Who used dynamite instead of a phallus<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS"">They found her vagina <u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS"">In North Carolina<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS"">And bits of her boobs in Corvallis.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS""><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS"">Now before you object… who here has actually met “Bill” Wallace? In person? How do we reeeeally know he or she doesn’t have the items found scattered about the countryside? Anyone? That’s sensible poetry!<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS""><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS"">My friends, the internet does crap like this to our brains. It’s an addiction, I tells ya, an ADDICTION! Hey cool.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS""><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS"">spike<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS""><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS""><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS""><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS""><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS""><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS""><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS""><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS""><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><div><div><p class="MsoNormal">On Sat, Apr 30, 2022 at 8:51 AM spike jones via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p></div><blockquote style="border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in"><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">Regarding Musk’s notion of making the Twitter content filters public led to the observation that this could make it easier to game the system.<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">That rattled around in my brain like a golf ball in a 55 gallon drum. I came up with an idea (as is my wont (or one of my many wonts (such as wanting excuses to use the term wont (they call me the wont-monster.))))<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">An earlier observation was the comedy gold provided by the Babylon Bee, which made a skit of an overly sensitive Twitter employee freaking about Musk buying Twitter. Then Twitter played along with the gag by slapping a sensitive content label on a tweet about sensitive Twitter employees (referring to her (and comically self-referencing the Twitter employee who chose the label.)) But it isn’t entirely clear the label was Twitter playing along with the gag. It might be that software did that, and that their software is flawed. I chose the more charitable interpretation (Twitter was making fun of itself.)<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><img border="0" width="583" height="331" style="width: 6.0729in; height: 3.4479in;" id="gmail-m_5566993630019812475gmail-m_-698609545199830052Picture_x0020_1" src="cid:1807b5d62154ce8e91"><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">Regarding Musk’s notion of making that software public (not defeating it, just making it public domain): that would allow users to download the filter, run a test case on an edgy post, shape it, edit it, rework it until it gets by without a warning. So this would be a form of gaming the system, and could spawn an entirely new genre in a sense: how to creatively word a message in such a way as to communicate an idea around restrictions. Gaming Twitter then becomes analogous to poetry in a way, where you say things with a rhyme and a rhythm, to communicate ideas in a framework of sorts. Going around Twitter filters becomes modern poetry.<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">spike <u></u><u></u></p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<br>extropy-chat mailing list<br><a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a><br><a href="http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat" target="_blank">http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat</a><u></u><u></u></p></blockquote></div></div></div>_______________________________________________<br>
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