<div dir="ltr"><br><div>Hi Adrian,</div><div>Yes, thanks so much, this is exactly the kind of information I'm interested in. I hope others will help communicate what they think about p-zombies and "<span style="color:rgb(80,0,80)">conscious computer brain simulations?"</span></div><div><br></div><div>We could go deeper into this, if you'd like, but this is a bit off the main thing I'm asking about p-zombies and "<span style="color:rgb(80,0,80)">conscious computer brain simulations?"</span></div><div><span style="color:rgb(80,0,80)"><br></span></div><div><span style="color:rgb(80,0,80)">You said: "</span>Things like redness might be part of it, <span style="color:rgb(80,0,80)">" which says to me you would agree that, though the one on the right can "function" the same (as in can tell you the strawberry is red) you would not consider it to have the same kind of conscious knowledge as you, who knows the physical definition of redness, and would answer different than the one on the right, when asked: "What is redness like for you?"</span></div><div><span style="color:rgb(80,0,80)"><br></span></div><div><img src="cid:ii_l5o3x01n0" alt="3_functionally_equal_machines_tiny.png" width="320" height="118"></div><div><br></div><div>Do you think redness can 'arise' from ones and zeros, as other <a href="https://canonizer.com/topic/88-Theories-of-Consciousness/18-Qualia-Emerge-from-Function">functionalists</a> evidently believe.<br></div><div>I guess my question is, are you a
<a href="https://canonizer.com/topic/88-Theories-of-Consciousness/18-Qualia-Emerge-from-Function">functionalists</a>, as I believe most transhumanists are ?</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><span style="color:rgb(80,0,80)"><br></span></div><div><span style="color:rgb(80,0,80)"><br></span></div><div><span style="color:rgb(80,0,80)"><br></span></div><div><span style="color:rgb(80,0,80)"><br></span></div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Jul 16, 2022 at 8:59 AM Adrian Tymes via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto"><div class="gmail_quote" dir="auto"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Jul 16, 2022, 6:31 AM Brent Allsop via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><br><div>And I'd like to know what everyone thinks about p-zombies and "conscious computer brain simulations."<br></div><div><br></div><div>First off, would you agree that consciousness is composed of elemental intrinsic qualities (I don't like the label 'qualia', though it is a label for the same thing) like redness, greenness, warmth, and so on.</div></div></blockquote></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">You asked for everyone's opinions, so...</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">No I would not. Consciousness is a pattern. Things like redness might be part of it, but to say it is "composed of" them is to miss the higher order properties and possibly other elements.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">It would be like saying that water is composed of quarks (which make electrons, neutrons, and protons, which make atoms, which make molecules) and then trying to derive the melting point, freezing expansion, and other properties of water only from the properties of its quarks in isolation. This misses the properties that result from the quarks' interactions, not to mention the interactions of higher order units, where most of the interesting properties come from.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Or it would be like saying that, because water is part of all known biological beings, to know how biology works it suffices to know how water works, and then struggling to identify how water eats, excretes, and reproduces.</div><div class="gmail_quote" dir="auto"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
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