<div dir="ltr"><br><div>Thanks, Jason, for clarifying how you think on p-zombies and "conscious computer brain simulations." THIS is what I'm very interested in knowing. I want to know and track what everyone, especially transhumanists think about all this stuff. I think knowing and tracking what people currently think about this kind of stuff is critically important to society, and it's ability to progress and make correct value decisions. I also think that which you measure, improves.</div><div><br></div><div>People are asking: "Who decides" who is conscious and all that. But it is each individual who decides, by living their life and making their choices based on these types of beliefs. The question isn't "who decides" the question is more "what does everyone decide?" That's why we're building and tracking consensus about what everyone thinks, in the <a href="https://canonizer.com/topic/88-Theories-of-Consciousness/1-Agreement">Theories of Consciousness</a> topic.</div><div><br></div><div>And thanks Ben, for at least trying to understand and model what others think on this issue, and seeking clarification, when mistaken.</div><div><br></div><div>So, Ben, if I may ask for some clarifica on exactly what you currently think about p-zombies and "conscious computer brain simulations." And I'd like to know what everyone thinks about p-zombies and "conscious computer brain simulations."</div><div><br></div><div>First off, would you agree that consciousness is composed of elemental intrinsic qualities (I don't like the label 'qualia', though it is a label for the same thing) like redness, greenness, warmth, and so on.</div><div><br></div><div><img src="cid:ii_l5nwtl170" alt="3_functionally_equal_machines_tiny.png" width="320" height="118"><br></div><div>In other words. The systems on the left represent red knowledge with something that has your redness quality, while the system on the right represents the same knowledge with an abstract word like 'red'. Would you consider the one on the right to be "conscious"? or would you consider the one on the right to be something like a 'p-zombie'?</div><div><br></div><div>Note: by 'something like a p-zombie' I don't mean something that is atom for atom, the same as the one on the left, (as I think p-zombies are traditionally defined), which is absurd. I mean something that is very physically different though equally functional (they all can tell you the strawberry is red) but they do it in a very physically different and non conscious ways. The system on the right requires a dictionary to know what the word "redness" means, the two on the left don't require a dictionary, as their knowledge has that intrinsic redness quality. And THAT quality is their definition of the word redness.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Jul 15, 2022 at 8:59 PM Jason Resch via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Hi Ben,<div><br></div><div>I did, my apologies.</div><div><br></div><div>Jason</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Jul 15, 2022 at 3:14 PM Ben Zaiboc via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">On 15/07/2022 20:02, Jason Resch wrote:<br>
> I find it strange that you reject p-zombies but also reject the idea <br>
> of conscious computer brain simulations.<br>
<br>
I'd find it strange as well (to say the least) if I did. I don't know <br>
where you got that idea from, but I absolutely do not reject the idea of <br>
conscious computer brain simulations. On the contrary, I think it's our <br>
only real hope for long-term survival.<br>
<br>
I suspect you've got me confused with someone else.<br>
<br>
Ben<br>
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