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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link="#0563C1" vlink="#954F72" style='word-wrap:break-word'><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b>…</b>> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Ben Zaiboc via extropy-chat<br><b>Subject:</b> [ExI] fake news again was: ian came home<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>On 29/09/2022 19:25, Spike optimistically wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS",serif'>>>…We catch the phony nonsense offered to us as news.</span><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal><br>>…I don't know, Spike. If that was the case, people would also be getting wise to the phony nonsense that religion feeds them, and I don't see much evidence of that happening. I may be wrong, and hope I am, but I'm skeptical of a large number of people learning to be skeptical. Dumbness and gullibility seem to be as widespread as ever (I wonder if there is some way of accurately measuring this?).<br><br>Ben<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Ben thanks for mentioning this, for I would suggest that most “believers” don’t really believe in the sense of… hmmm, words fail me… believing. There are peripheral reasons for being a “believer.” There really are, and you would get it if you ever entered a closed society such as LDS (apologies to any LDS true believers among us) or Seventh Day Adventist. Being part of that really does have benefits and I can confidently say they really are nice people in those outfits. If you don’t let it cramp your style but generally live by their principles, live right, do right, sleep in your own bed every night, etc, you will likely have a good happy life in general. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>You can carry it uncomfortably far by saying something like: you will likely have a happy life if you hitch up with a believer and just play along, even if you personally know it is nonsense. That comment worries me, for it comes dangerously close to saying an illusion is beneficial. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>I have personally witnessed people who have completely messed up their lives and were desperately unhappy to the point where their biggest decision each day was whether to end it or allow themselves to live until tomorrow. One particular person wasn’t fooling. He got to that point and decided to try some outlandish religion that he didn’t believe, but decided perhaps the old fake it till you make it notion might work. It did in his case. He met the right girl, who was herself a true believer. She gave him a happy life. They raised three children. I refuse to second-guess that guy’s life choices. Think about it: what if a someone really just wants a stable home life with lots of children? Some religions are well-designed and well-adapted for that sorta thing.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>I know a guy who was a true believer but was gay. He knew it, I suspected it only because he was my college roommate. He struggled against it an never did have a sweetheart. It is late in the day for that now (mid 60s) so one might suppose religion ruined his life by preventing him from having a husband, I don’t know.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>I have struck a workable compromise with religion: crack that oyster, find the pearls, toss the rest of it. There are pearls in there in most cases. Be open and honest: I am an atheist, since about late college years, but I do not try to make converts to my thinking. I answer questions about that honestly and sincerely.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Ben to your point: some dumbness and gullibility is intentional to some extent. It can also only appear to be dumbness and gullibility, but in reality is lightly-disguised pragmatism.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>spike <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></body></html>