<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:large;color:#000000">I get my garden seeds from Johnny's Selected Seeds, a company started 40 years ago by a R. Johnston. When he retired it became employee owned. It is still a fine business. I think it would be instructive to check out employee-owned companies and see how they compare in wages etc. to regular companies. bill w</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Dec 1, 2022 at 9:09 PM Will Steinberg via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto">Well again I don't think the Chinese people hate Marxism, it's a hard thing to hate if you understand it because it's true--workers should get fair pay for the value of the work they do. What they hate is authoritarianism. <div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">You say factory working is diminished but I'm pretty sure the majority of the world does that kind of work. And even in America, minimum wage work for corporations is very, very widespread, even if a few factories are partially automated...</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Dec 1, 2022, 7:57 PM spike jones via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div lang="EN-US" style="overflow-wrap: break-word;"><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><div style="border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><b>…</b>> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Will Steinberg via extropy-chat<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [ExI] chinese fires, was:RE: book review<u></u><u></u></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal">>…That's another thing that kinda bugged me, Spike--the way you were talking about Marxism made it seem like you were conflating it with authoritarianism…<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">No worries Will. Given sufficiently independent Marxist governments, most with populations of one to five, the scenario you describe works just fine and always have.<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">Times have changed, a lot. Now we no longer rely on human labor to manufacture stuff very much. A really good example is the Tesla factory up the street. There are workers there, but most of them are overseeing manufacturing equipment. It is nothing like the Ford factory that was there 30 years ago where lines of actual biological units made and assembled the cars. Henry Ford was such a primitive savage that way.<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">Now our biological units are mostly from India and write software to control the construction of the cars. They have the option of owning the tools, by buying up stock in their own company. Those who followed that practice in Tesla are in great shape now. They generally have a very low collective opinion of Marxism, while simultaneously practicing it in their homes, to eaching and from eaching with their spouses and children.<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">Plenty of workers today are software developers, in which case they already do own the tools. More workers are moving toward that professional paradigm all the time. That whole gathering in a factory renting the corporation’s tools business that vexed Marx (and his four brothers) is really much diminished. <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">I can easily foresee that Marxism (and every variant of communism) steadily losing popularity, considering the current experience in China, where the population would prefer to not have the exits welded shut because of covid. This expediency for slowing the pandemic carries its own risks, such as making emergency egress physically impossible when the damn building catches fire. The Chinese proletariat disapprove of this as much as we would. The big difference of course is that our asses are heavily armed and we intend to stay that way, lest we suffer the same fate as the Chinese.<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">spike<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div></div></div></div></div>_______________________________________________<br>
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