<div dir="ltr">The problem, as I understand it, is that the word "woman" has also been conflated into a bunch of social and cultural roles and expectations, which trans women wish to fill; likewise for "man" and trans men. Those who medically transition perceive these roles - at least, certain ones they identify with - as bound to their physical shape, thus their desire to change their shape to match their self-image. Whether or not their perception is correct is technically irrelevant, though they did not come to their conclusions without some evidence.<div><br></div><div>See for instance the continued debate about whether to include women in the draft, and the until-a-few-years-ago ban on women in certain combat operations jobs, for two examples from the US military. There are plenty of other examples of either outright prohibitions or substantial favoritism against women or men; for instance, men have a harder time being a cute waitress. (Yes, there are some people for whom being able to serve in a position like that is an important part of their self identity. You are not them; they decide for themselves and their own bodies, based on their knowledge and values.)<div><br></div><div>It's about what they think a woman is and a man is. It's never just about the presence or absence of breasts and a vagina.</div></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Dec 2, 2022 at 11:05 AM Will Steinberg via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto">Whatever a woman is or what people want to call themselves, it is simply impossible to become what we have used the word woman to describe--XX, womb, ovaries, body and mind long-term feminized by hormones from birth, menstruation, birth--unless you start out that way. It would do everyone good to accept this. Maybe we will have brain swaps in the future or be able to change all our chromosomes but we don't now and that cognitive dissonance is causing a lot of pointless strife and annoyance, imo. People are all crazy about words and pronouns when the physical facts are hyper apparent. I think this forced skewing of language is a dangerous, fascist thing. I hope people come around to that.<div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">China will have a revolution 100%. My guess had always been a botched or expensive Taiwan invasion and war of attrition leads to revolts on the periphery (west, north, south) which the army is stretched to thin to put down. It's coming sooner rather than later, imo</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Dec 2, 2022, 1:08 PM spike jones via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div lang="EN-US" style="overflow-wrap: break-word;"><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><div style="border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><b>…</b>> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Will Steinberg via extropy-chat<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [ExI] commies vs marxists was: RE: chinese fires, was:RE: book review<u></u><u></u></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal">>…Again, communism doesn't require a government (anarcho-communism) and the governments you call communist are actually authoritarian capitalist (Russia, China). Idk why you are ignoring this point, it reminds me of the way John argues…<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">Ja, this is a variant on the “true communism has never been tried” theme. Well OK, in my mind true communism always results in authoritarian capitalism, whether or not that was the intent. I can further speculate that outside of families, true communism will never be tried.<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal">>…You don't believe calling yourself a woman makes you a woman…<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">Ja, I would never believe myself if I even tried that. I could never pull it over on me. I could never even keep a straight face telling it to myself in the mirror. I would bust out laughing and tell me: spike, look down there, you silly ass! And that sorta thing. Will, if others can make that happen for them, well OK then, it’s their call, but my brain just doesn’t work that way, never has.<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">>…so why would you believe that China calling itself communist makes it communist? Everyone can see that it is not remotely communist anymore…<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">I see hope for China. The 1.4 billion little commies are getting more and more pissed at the big commie up top, with the riots and such. It will be extremely interesting if they continue to grow in outrage and power, to continue to use their idealized view of the USA as an example of what they want to be, then eventually just go ahead and storm the presidential palace at enormous loss of life, slay the big commie up top, adopt something analogous to the US constitution along with rigorous first, second and fifth amendment rights. <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">I don’t seriously predict it will turn out that way, but I hope does. Estimate 20% chance. I am cheering wildly for the 1.4 billion little commies yearning to be anarcho capitalist. I think they would be good at it: China could become a most formidable trade competitor.<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">spike<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div></div></div></div>_______________________________________________<br>
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