<div style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 14px;"><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 14px; line-height: normal;">On Tuesday, December 13th, 2022 at 10:09 AM, spike jones via extropy-chat <extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org> wrote:</span></div><div class="protonmail_quote"><br><span style="font-size: 14px; line-height: normal; font-family: Arial;">
</span><blockquote class="protonmail_quote" type="cite"><span style="font-size: 14px; line-height: normal; font-family: Arial;">
</span><div class="WordSection1"><blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><p style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 14px; line-height: normal;">>…</span><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 14px; line-height: normal;">I don't use twitter as a news source, but that sounds like a great way to create an echo chamber. People naturally like them because they confirm their biases, but they really aren't a great way to stay informed.</span><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 14px; line-height: normal;"> </span><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 14px; line-height: normal;">-Dave</span></p></blockquote><p style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 14px; line-height: normal; font-family: Arial;"> </span></p><p style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 14px; line-height: normal; font-family: Arial;">Mainstream news is better?</span></p></div></blockquote><p style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto" class="MsoNormal"><br></p><p style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 14px; line-height: normal; font-family: Arial;">I think that's a false dichotomy. There are lots of choices between "a collection of random people on twitter" and "mainstream news". I think it's important to get news from a variety of sources and to not take everything any source says as gospel.</span></p><p style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto" class="MsoNormal"><br></p><blockquote class="protonmail_quote" type="cite"><div class="WordSection1"><p style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 14px; line-height: normal; font-family: Arial;">How? Why are there still so many unanswered questions please?</span></p></div></blockquote><p style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto" class="MsoNormal"><br></p><p style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 14px; line-height: normal; font-family: Arial;">There will always be many unanswered questions. Law enforcement generally doesn't like to show their hand before they get in the courtroom.</span></p><p style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto" class="MsoNormal"><br></p><blockquote class="protonmail_quote" type="cite"><div class="WordSection1"><p style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 14px; line-height: normal; font-family: Arial;">Such as… the obvious ones regarding that hammer business: why are we not being shown the police video?</span></p></div></blockquote><p style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto" class="MsoNormal"><br></p><p style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 14px; line-height: normal; font-family: Arial;">I don't know. What do your Twitter sources say about that? Maybe they're trying to respect the victim's privacy. Surely FOIA requests have been filed. Unanswered question don't always mean there's a conspiracy.</span></p><p style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto" class="MsoNormal"><br></p><blockquote class="protonmail_quote" type="cite"><div class="WordSection1"><p style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 14px; line-height: normal; font-family: Arial;">And why do we still have so many unanswered questions about the guy who appears to have led the Jan 6 riot on the capitol, Ray Epps? Where is he, and why can’t the FBI find him? Reporters seem to be able to find him. Mainstream news isn’t asking those kinds of questions Dave.</span></p></div></blockquote><p style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 0.875rem;"><br></span></p><p style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 14px; line-height: normal; font-family: Arial;">Seems like the NYT addressed these questions:</span></p><p style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 0.875rem;"><br></span></p><p style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 0.875rem;"></span></p><p style="margin:0px 0px 0.9375rem;text-size-adjust:100%;font-size:1.25rem;line-height:1.875rem;font-family:nyt-imperial, georgia, "times new roman", times, serif;overflow-wrap:break-word;color:var(--color-content-secondary,#363636);width:600px;max-width:100%;background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255)"><span style="font-size: 14px; line-height: normal; font-family: Arial;"><i>Prominent Republicans — including former President Donald J. Trump — have for months promoted a conspiracy theory that an Arizona man named Ray Epps was a federal informant who helped to instigate the attack on the Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021.</i></span></p><p style="margin:0px 0px 0.9375rem;text-size-adjust:100%;font-size:1.25rem;line-height:1.875rem;font-family:nyt-imperial, georgia, "times new roman", times, serif;overflow-wrap:break-word;color:var(--color-content-secondary,#363636);width:600px;max-width:100%;background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255)"><span style="font-size: 14px; line-height: normal; font-family: Arial;"><i>The claims, made in congressional hearing rooms, on Fox News and at Mr. Trump’s political rallies, have largely been based on a video taken just before violence erupted at the Capitol, showing Mr. Epps at the barricades outside the building whispering into the ear of a man named Ryan Samsel.</i></span></p><p style="margin:0px 0px 0.9375rem;text-size-adjust:100%;font-size:1.25rem;line-height:1.875rem;font-family:nyt-imperial, georgia, "times new roman", times, serif;overflow-wrap:break-word;color:var(--color-content-secondary,#363636);width:600px;max-width:100%;background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255)"><span style="font-size: 14px; line-height: normal; font-family: Arial;"><i>Within moments of the brief exchange, Mr. Samsel, a Pennsylvania barber, can be seen moving forward and confronting the police in what amounted to the tipping point of the riot. Despite lacking proof for their claims, many Republicans have surmised that Mr. Epps instructed Mr. Samsel to antagonize the officers. They have also pushed the notion that because Mr. Epps has not been arrested, he must have been working for the government.</i></span></p><span style="color: rgb(54, 54, 54); font-family: Arial; font-size: 14px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); display: inline !important; line-height: normal;"><i>But for more than a year, well before the name Ray Epps was widely known in right-wing circles,</i></span></div><div class="protonmail_quote"><span style="color: rgb(54, 54, 54); font-family: Arial; font-size: 14px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); display: inline !important; line-height: normal;"><i>federal authorities have had information — from both him and Mr. Samsel — suggesting that he</i></span></div><div class="protonmail_quote"><span style="color: rgb(54, 54, 54); font-family: Arial; font-size: 14px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); display: inline !important; line-height: normal;"><i>was not a government agent and did not encourage the younger man to engage with the police</i></span></div><div class="protonmail_quote"><span style="color: rgb(54, 54, 54); font-family: Arial; font-size: 14px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); display: inline !important; line-height: normal;"><i>that day.</i></span></div><div class="protonmail_quote"><font color="#363636" face="Arial"><i><br></i></font><p style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 0.875rem;"><span style="color:rgb(54, 54, 54);font-family:nyt-imperial, georgia, "times new roman", times, serif;font-size:20px;background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255);display:inline !important"><span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); display: inline !important; font-size: 14px; line-height: normal; font-family: Arial;"><i>Just two days after the attack, when Mr. Epps saw himself on a list of suspects from Jan. 6, he</i></span></span></span></p><p style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 0.875rem;"><span style="color:rgb(54, 54, 54);font-family:nyt-imperial, georgia, "times new roman", times, serif;font-size:20px;background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255);display:inline !important"><span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); display: inline !important; font-size: 14px; line-height: normal; font-family: Arial;"><i>called an F.B.I. tip line and told investigators that he had tried to calm Mr. Samsel down when</i></span></span></span></p><p style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 0.875rem;"><span style="color:rgb(54, 54, 54);font-family:nyt-imperial, georgia, "times new roman", times, serif;font-size:20px;background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255);display:inline !important"><span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); display: inline !important; font-size: 14px; line-height: normal; font-family: Arial;"><i>they spoke, according to three people who have heard a recording of the call. Mr. Epps went on</i></span></span></span></p><p style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 0.875rem;"><span style="color:rgb(54, 54, 54);font-family:nyt-imperial, georgia, "times new roman", times, serif;font-size:20px;background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255);display:inline !important"><span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); display: inline !important; font-size: 14px; line-height: normal; font-family: Arial;"><i>to say that he explained to Mr. Samsel that the police outside the building were merely doing their</i></span></span></span></p><p style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 0.875rem;"><span style="color:rgb(54, 54, 54);font-family:nyt-imperial, georgia, "times new roman", times, serif;font-size:20px;background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255);display:inline !important"><span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); display: inline !important; font-size: 14px; line-height: normal; font-family: Arial;"><i> jobs, the people said.</i></span></span></span></p><p style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto" class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: var(--color-content-secondary,#363636); font-family: nyt-imperial, georgia, "times new roman", times, serif; font-size: 1.25rem;"><br></span></p><p style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto" class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: var(--color-content-secondary,#363636); font-family: Arial; font-size: 14px; line-height: normal;"><i>Then in late January of last year, in an interview with the F.B.I., Mr. Samsel said much the same</i></span></p><p style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto" class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: var(--color-content-secondary,#363636); font-family: Arial; font-size: 14px; line-height: normal;"><i>thing, telling investigators that a man he did not know came up to him at the barricades and</i></span></p><p style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto" class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: var(--color-content-secondary,#363636); font-family: Arial; font-size: 14px; line-height: normal;"><i>suggested he relax, according to a recording of the interview obtained by The New York Times.</i></span></p><p style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto" class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: var(--color-content-secondary,#363636); font-family: nyt-imperial, georgia, "times new roman", times, serif; font-size: 1.25rem; font-weight: 700; text-align: center;"><i><br></i></span></p><p style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto" class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: var(--color-content-secondary,#363636); font-family: Arial; font-size: 14px; text-align: center; line-height: normal;"><i>“He came up to me and he said, ‘Dude’ — his entire words were, ‘Relax, the cops are doing their</i></span></p><p style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto" class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="color: var(--color-content-secondary,#363636); font-family: Arial; font-size: 14px; text-align: center; line-height: normal;">job,’” Mr. Samsel said.</span><span style="color: var(--color-content-secondary,#363636); font-family: Arial; font-size: 14px; text-align: center; line-height: normal;"></span></i></p><p style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto" class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: var(--color-content-secondary,#363636); font-family: nyt-imperial, georgia, "times new roman", times, serif; font-size: 10.5pt; line-height: normal;"><br></span></p><p style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto" class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="color: var(--color-content-secondary,#363636); font-family: Arial; font-size: 14px; line-height: normal;">The theories surrounding Mr. Epps have been debunked before, most notably after</span><span style="color: var(--color-content-secondary,#363636); font-family: Arial; font-size: 14px; line-height: normal;"> </span><a href="https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/11/us/politics/ray-epps-january-6-committee.html" title="" style="font-family: nyt-imperial, georgia, "times new roman", times, serif; font-size: 1.25rem; margin: 0px; text-size-adjust: 100%; text-decoration-thickness: 1px; text-decoration-style: solid; text-decoration-color: var(--color-signal-editorial,#326891); color: var(--color-signal-editorial,#326891);"><span style="font-size: 14px; line-height: normal; font-family: Arial;">he spoke last</span></a></i></p><p style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto" class="MsoNormal"><i><a href="https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/11/us/politics/ray-epps-january-6-committee.html" title="" style="font-family: nyt-imperial, georgia, "times new roman", times, serif; font-size: 1.25rem; margin: 0px; text-size-adjust: 100%; text-decoration-thickness: 1px; text-decoration-style: solid; text-decoration-color: var(--color-signal-editorial,#326891); color: var(--color-signal-editorial,#326891);"><span style="font-size: 14px; line-height: normal; font-family: Arial;">year to investigators</span></a><span style="color: var(--color-content-secondary,#363636); font-family: Arial; font-size: 14px; line-height: normal;"> </span><span style="color: var(--color-content-secondary,#363636); font-family: Arial; font-size: 14px; line-height: normal;">working with the House select committee examining the Jan. 6 attack. During</span></i></p><p style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto" class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: var(--color-content-secondary,#363636); font-family: Arial; font-size: 14px; line-height: normal;"><i>the interview, committee officials said, Mr. Epps said that he was not an F.B.I. informant and denied</i></span></p><p style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto" class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: var(--color-content-secondary,#363636); font-family: Arial; font-size: 14px; line-height: normal;"><i>reports that he had urged protesters to go into the Capitol at the behest of federal law enforcement</i></span></p><p style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto" class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: var(--color-content-secondary,#363636); font-family: Arial; font-size: 14px; line-height: normal;"><i>agencies.</i></span></p><p style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto" class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: var(--color-content-secondary,#363636); font-family: nyt-imperial, georgia, "times new roman", times, serif; font-size: 10.5pt; line-height: normal;"><i style="line-height: normal;"></i></span><span style="color: var(--color-content-secondary,#363636); font-family: nyt-imperial, georgia, "times new roman", times, serif; font-size: 1.25rem;"><i><br></i></span></p><p style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto" class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: var(--color-content-secondary,#363636); font-family: Arial; font-size: 14px; line-height: normal;"><i>Still, the rumors about him have persisted, becoming regular fodder for right-wing politicians and</i></span></p><p style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto" class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: var(--color-content-secondary,#363636); font-family: Arial; font-size: 14px; line-height: normal;"><i>media figures.</i></span></p><p style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto" class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: var(--color-content-secondary,#363636); font-family: nyt-imperial, georgia, "times new roman", times, serif; font-size: 10.5pt; line-height: normal;"><br></span></p><p style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto" class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: var(--color-content-secondary,#363636); font-family: nyt-imperial, georgia, "times new roman", times, serif; font-size: 1.25rem;"><span><a target="_blank" rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/05/us/jan-6-ray-epps-evidence.html"><span style="font-size: 14px; line-height: normal; font-family: Arial;">https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/05/us/jan-6-ray-epps-evidence.html</span></a></span><br></span></p><p style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 0.875rem;"><span style="color:rgb(54, 54, 54);font-family:nyt-imperial, georgia, "times new roman", times, serif;font-size:20px;background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255);display:inline !important"><span style="background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255);display:inline !important"></span></span></span></p><div style="margin:0px auto 1rem;text-size-adjust:100%;font-size:16px;font-family:Tinos;display:flex;flex-direction:row;height:1297px;color:rgb(51, 51, 51);background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255)"><aside style="margin:0px 0px 0px auto;text-size-adjust:100%;display:flex;width:210px;align-items:center"><div style="margin:0px;text-size-adjust:100%;display:block;max-width:210px"><h2 style="margin:0px 0px 15px;padding:0px 0px 12px;border-width:0px 0px 1px;border-bottom-style:solid;border-bottom-color:rgb(226, 226, 226);text-size-adjust:100%;font-weight:700;font-size:14px;line-height:14px;font-family:nyt-franklin, helvetica, arial, sans-serif;color:rgb(0, 0, 0);letter-spacing:0.02em"><span style="font-size: 14px; 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line-height: normal; font-family: Arial;">How to Calculate a Holiday Tip for the Doorman</span></h3></a></article><div style="margin:0px 0px 0px -9px;text-size-adjust:100%"><a href="https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/05/us/jan-6-ray-epps-evidence.html?action=click&module=editorContent&pgtype=Article®ion=CompanionColumn&contentCollection=Trending#after-pp_edpick" style="margin:-1px;text-size-adjust:100%;color:black;width:1px;height:1px;clip:rect(0px, 0px, 0px, 0px);overflow:hidden"><span style="font-size: 14px; line-height: normal; font-family: Arial;">Continue reading the main story</span></a><div data-google-query-id="CNLPs6X29vsCFWmoAAAdXc8Hwg" style="margin:0px;text-size-adjust:100%;text-align:center;height:100px;display:block"><div style="margin:0px;border:0pt none;text-size-adjust:100%;display:inline-block;height:auto"></div></div><div style="margin:0px;text-size-adjust:100%"></div></div></div></aside></div><div style="margin:0px;text-size-adjust:100%;font-size:16px;font-family:Tinos;color:rgb(51, 51, 51);background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255)"><div style="margin:3rem auto;padding:12px 0px 30px;border-width:1px 0px;border-top-style:solid;border-bottom-style:solid;border-top-color:rgb(243, 243, 243);border-bottom-color:rgb(243, 243, 243);text-size-adjust:100%;background-color:rgb(247, 247, 247);text-align:center"><span style="margin:0px 0px 9px;text-size-adjust:100%;font-weight:300;font-size:0.5625rem;line-height:0.5625rem;font-family:nyt-franklin, helvetica, arial, sans-serif;color:rgb(204, 204, 204);letter-spacing:0.05rem;text-transform:uppercase"></span></div></div><br><p></p><blockquote class="protonmail_quote" type="cite"><div class="WordSection1"><p style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 14px; line-height: normal; font-family: Arial;"> If Twitter echoes questions, well OK then, let them echo until we get some answers.</span></p><p style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 14px; line-height: normal; font-family: Arial;">spike</span></p><p style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 14px; line-height: normal; font-family: Arial;"> </span></p><p style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto" class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 14px; line-height: normal; font-family: Arial;"> </span></p></div><span style="font-size: 14px; line-height: normal; font-family: Arial;">
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