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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple style='word-wrap:break-word'><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b>From:</b> extropy-chat <extropy-chat-bounces@lists.extropy.org> <b>On Behalf Of </b>William Flynn Wallace via extropy-chat<br><b>Sent:</b> Sunday, 26 February, 2023 3:16 PM<br><b>To:</b> ExI chat list <extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org><br><b>Cc:</b> William Flynn Wallace <foozler83@gmail.com><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [ExI] More thoughts on sentient computers<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS"'>>…<span style='color:black'>Let's devise a measure of feminine beauty. :I suggest the classical way: measure breast, waist, and hip circumference. Totally objective. Then create an ideal set of measurements. Every woman then can be classified on the beauty scale as average, etc.<o:p></o:p></span></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS"'>>…<span style='color:black'>No one will be happy with that, even though it's totally objective - right? OK, so create ideal dimensions of jaw, nose, and so on. You could create dozens of objective measures and no one would agree with any of them. Objective measure then, isn't the way to go, is it</span>?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS"'>No, not at all. Reason: there is no universal way to determine the weight of each factor.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS"'>No worries, however, for there is a way to use these things to derive an objective measure: which one makes the most money specifically as a model?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS"'>It has to be a model, for that profession is based entirely on beauty. Contests bring in other factors such as ability to walk in the completely absurd combination of spike heels with beachware, or spontaneous speaking etc. Actresses are beautiful, but they must be able to memorize and recite scripts. But fashion models only need to be drop-dead gorgeous. They can be mentally deficient in every way, but still make a living at modelling if they excel sufficiently.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS"'>With all that… most fashion models make nearly nothing, or even work at a loss (details cheerfully available.) A very small fraction of them make enormous sums at modelling. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS"'>So… regardless of what factors we come up with to derive an objective measure of beauty, the only completely objective measure is profit.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS"'>>…<span style='color:black'>The Beatles are the best musicians in history because they sold the most albums etc. Agree with that</span>?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS"'>We all have our favorites. They were not in my top 10, but they made it to my top 20. I agree that they made the most money at music. This is the best we can do for measuring success of any artist. Again music is reproducible for no money, which is why I suggested focusing on artists, who create one physical object at a time.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS"'>>…<span style='color:black'> The best book in history has to be the Bible - the most sold</span>…<span style='color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS"'>The bible is a collection of books, so it isn’t directly comparable.<span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS"'>>…<span style='color:black'> Aesthetics just isn't amenable to scientific/objective sorts of measures</span>…<span style='color:black'> bill w<o:p></o:p></span></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:black'>Granted. Now I am proposing ways to create lists and sort them. This requires objective measures. Otherwise, software cannot be trained as effectively to write music that will make us a buttload of money. If it fails at that task, I have no way to estimate ROI, and no interest in it for I have no way to decide if it is worth investing in whoever is developing it.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:black'>Fun aside: we are clearly very close to having software which can write popular music of sufficient quality to make it on the radio. Of all the genres likely to be software generated, the first will most likely be… rap.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:black'>spike <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></div></body></html>