<div dir="auto"><div><br><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Mar 22, 2023, 11:34 PM Gordon Swobe <<a href="mailto:gordon.swobe@gmail.com">gordon.swobe@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><br></div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Mar 22, 2023 at 8:09 PM Jason Resch <<a href="mailto:jasonresch@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">jasonresch@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr"><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><div dir="auto"><div dir="auto">I see the word "Pi" defined by a string of 20 symbols which if I interpret them to be digits in base 10 I confirm to be the ratio of a circle's circumference to its diameter. This not only tells me about the number system used in the dictionary but also what each digit means.</div></div></blockquote><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">How do you know the meaning of “string” and “digit” and “symbol” and “base 10” and how can you confirm it to be a “ratio” of a “circle” to a “circumference” given that you have no knowledge of the meanings of these words?</div></div></div></blockquote></div></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">How does any human come to understand the world given only neural impulses? We do it purely from finding and correlating patterns present in those neural impulses. Similarly, patterns and correlations exist in a corpus of text such as a dictionary or Wikipedia.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="auto"> And how do you know the meanings of all the other words in your definition of “Pi”?</div></div></div></blockquote></div></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">You don't, and don't need to. The pattern inherent in the digits of Pi is enough to tell you that it is Pi. It is self-descriptive to anyone who knows what Pi is, and it reveals itself even if you don't recognize the symbols used for the digits, by virtue of the pattern inherent in the digits.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Here's a test: give me the first 20 digits of one of two numbers, either Pi or Euler's number. Change the digits for letters of your choosing, e.g. 1 = 'J', 2 = 'R', 3 = 'P', etc. or you could even use emojis instead of letters. Just don't tell me which symbols you chose to stand for which digits. Provide me 20 digits of either number, Pi or Euler's number. Give them to me in either their binary form or their base-10 form. I'll be able to readily determine whether you gave me Pi or E, even though you haven't told me what the symbols mean or which number you gave me or which base the number is in. Moreover I will be able to determine which digit each symbol means.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">For that matter, how do you know the meaning of “definition”?</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">You are presuming knowledge of meanings (referents) that you do not have. I think you forget that you are a mindless software application programmed to identify and extrapolate patterns in symbols, which is all that ChatGPT is. </div></div></div></blockquote></div></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">My original claim was that a sufficiently intelligent alien race, happening upon our dictionary would be able to figure out all the word meanings.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">However I would say it is still possible for an AI to build a model of the world from the patterns present in the text alone. I believe this because we humans have done it which proves it is possible given only patterns (in our case a pattern of neural firings). I see no reason why this capacity should not generalize to other patterns of information.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Jason </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><div dir="auto"><div dir="auto"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><div dir="auto"><div dir="auto"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)">
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