<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class="gmail_quote"><div class="">Can anyone give a better (non circular) definition of a quality?</div></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div>A quality is a particular configuration of particle interactions. We do not know which configuration of particle interactions corresponds to your perception of red because that must be experimentally determined.<br class=""><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Mar 25, 2023, at 8:41 AM, Brent Allsop via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" class="">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div dir="ltr" class="">On Fri, Mar 24, 2023 at 8:13 PM Rafal Smigrodzki via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" class="">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br class=""></div><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr" class=""><div dir="ltr" class="">On Wed, Mar 22, 2023 at 4:29 PM Brent Allsop via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank" class="">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br class=""></div><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr" class=""><div dir="ltr" class="">On Wed, Mar 22, 2023 at 4:34 AM Giovanni Santostasi via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank" class="">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br class=""></div><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr" class="">The entire idea of qualia is ridiculous </div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">OK, then. Answer me this, What is it that has the redness quality in your brain, when you look at this?</div><div class=""><span id="cid:ii_lfk4of3m0"><red.png></span></div><div class="">Nobody knows that yet. </div></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">### But Brent, neuroscientists have known that for decades. The color rosettes in the fusiform gyrus code for this quality, they are the neural implementation of basic color recognition, with additional higher level processing in the angular gyrus and other areas.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">We know color.</div></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">You don't see any problems in what you are saying here?</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">For example, what, exactly, do you mean by "code for this quality"?</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">This is just a circular definition that never actually gets to any definition.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I see no evidence that anyone on this list understands what a quality is.</div><div class="">Only saying something circular like anything can "code for this quality" to me, proves you don't know what a quality is.</div><div class="">Can anyone give a better (non circular) definition of a quality?<br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">A "code" for a quality, is something different than that quality.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">A physical greenness quality, or a physical +5 volts, or a physical pit on a paper tape, or a word 'red' can all "code" for a redness quality, but only if you have a dictionary, which tells you that something that is not a redness quality represents redness.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Redness is a physical fact. A "code" representing that physical fact, is not the physical fact. You need a dictionary to 'decode' the 'code' back to the physical redness quality.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">But, again, nobody here seems to understand what that redness quality is, other than a circular definition (not a definition) like: "a code for redness"?</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""> </div></div></div>
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