<div dir="ltr"><br><div>Oh, YES Rafal,</div><div><br></div><div>This is exactly the way Steven Lehar has proposed color conscious knowledge works. (I just sent this link to him) Our knowledge of the strawberry is laid out in the primary visual cortex, a pixel in our conscious knowledge for each point on the retina. So these circles (one for each pixel) can rotate between redness(glutamateness) and greenes(glyceneness) or any other color, as that particular pixel changes from red to green, on the surface of the strawberry.</div><div><br></div><div>However you must notice that this entire article is quality blind. Like everything in the all peer reviewed articles, it uses one abstract word 'red' to represent all things representing 'red'. This is the same issue with the way we observe the brain pointed out with multiple other similar examples of quality blind brain observation reported <a href="https://canonizer.com/topic/603-Current-Observation-Issues/1-Agreement">here</a>. </div><div><br></div><div>In other words, if you put a red/green signal inverter in the optic nerve of someone. Then when you objectively observe these wheels in this way, you will see the glutamate (redness) part of the circle in one person, and glycine (grenness) in another. But the system, having a different custom trained recognizer of that mind for each person whose mind is being observed, will correct for this difference, and false color it back to the 'red' which is defined by light. So it will fail to detect the fact that one person's subjective experience of red, is like your greenness. That is why we call it quality blind observation of the brain. And THAT is the only reason why we don't yet know the colorness quality of anything.</div><div><br></div><div> I guess I need to add this as yet another example of quality blind observation of the brain, <a href="https://canonizer.com/topic/603-Current-Observation-Issues/1-Agreement">here</a>.<br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Mar 26, 2023 at 8:15 PM Rafal Smigrodzki via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><br></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Mar 26, 2023 at 9:39 PM Brent Allsop <<a href="mailto:brent.allsop@gmail.com" target="_blank">brent.allsop@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><br><div>Hi Rafael,</div><div><br></div><div>I'm not familiar with the fusiform gyrus color rosettes. It sounds like you know more about the current understanding of at least this part of neuroanatomy than I do. So I very much appreciate your help with all this stuff. I've been able to find information on the fusiform gyrus, but nothing, yet, about the color rosettes. So I was wondering if you could provide some references where I can learn more?</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>### There was an article in "Science" (I think) about 15 years ago where they mapped the responses of a class of cortical neurons in the fusiform gyrus to color visual inputs on sub-millimeter scale. They found that there was a sheet of cortex tiled with hundreds of little color wheels (I am not sure if they used the word rosette, I read it decades ago). By looking at which neurons on the color wheels were activated you would be able to tell what color light was impinging on the retina in the spots corresponding to each wheel which means that the neurons encoded color information (i.e. the result of an attempt by the cortex to calculate the reflectance of surfaces) which then would be fed to higher cortical areas to enable the conscious perception of color.</div><div><br></div><div>This article shows similar results (but I remember reading about it in a different article that I can't find now):</div><div><br></div><div><a href="https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.0810943106" target="_blank">https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.0810943106</a><br></div><div><br></div><div>See especially figure 1A - there is a circular arrangement of neurons that respond to different colors. There is of course much more to the encoding of color in the cortex, there are multiple levels of the brain that express color information in different and complementary ways, all very complicated but the basic concept of "chromotopic" mapping is simple.</div><div> ----------------------------</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div><br></div><div>Also, I have a question about this "thing that contains the redness quality in the brain."</div><div><br></div><div>In our video, there is <a href="https://canonizer.com/videos/consciousness?chapter=Perceiving+a+Strawberry&format=360&t=120" target="_blank">a chapter called "Perceiving a Strawberry."</a> At 2:00 minutes in it illustrates a single pixel on the surface of a strawberry changing from redness to greenness. So, obviously, subjectively, there is one pixel physically changing, out of all our colored pixels that make up our total subjective experience of the strawberry in the brain. So, objectively, what would you see, when one observed just this one subjective pixel which is changing from redness to greenness? How would this color rosette mechanism accomplish such a subjective experience of one pixel changing like this, Along with all the other pixels of which our subjective knowledge is composed, which could also all change to be any color at any time?</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>### A couple of neurons in a single color rosette would fire differently, and this would propagate to higher cortical areas, and as long as you maintain attention to that pixel there would be reciprocal and sustained activation between that color wheel and its neurons and the higher cortical areas.</div><div> </div><div><br></div><div>Rafal</div></div></div>
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