<div dir="auto"><div><br><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Apr 2, 2023, 11:04 AM Tara Maya via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="line-break:after-white-space">I'm doing research on dolphin intelligence right now for Seastead book 2, "The Pink Dolphin." I haven't decided how intelligent to make the dolphins yet. Should I keep them strictly in keeping with what we can actually prove about dolphin intelligence right now (about on par with chimps), or should I let the readers have the much more fun fantasy of a dolphin who can think and communicate (translated) on par with humans?</div></blockquote></div></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><div dir="auto">"It is of interest to note that while some dolphins are reported to have learned English - up to fifty words used in correct context - no human being has been reported to have learned dolphinese."</div><div dir="auto">-- Carl Sagan</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Dolphins have larger brains than humans and a comparable brain to body mass ratios, and their ratio is significantly greater than that of chimps.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">See 'Figure 2' in this paper:</div><div dir="auto"><a href="https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4685590/#!po=38.0597">https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4685590/#!po=38.0597</a></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">So I would say the jury's still out on which is the more intelligent species.</div></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="line-break:after-white-space"><div><br></div><div>One thing is clear is that humans WANT dolphins to be as sentient as they, or, better yet, smarter. I read a book by a new age lady who was convinced that the dolphin in the pool of a Florida hotel told her to divorce her husband so as to study the infinite wisdom of dolphinkind and teach humanity to ascend to a higher level of spiritual being.</div><div><br></div><div>I'm incredibly skeptical of any claims of human-like or superhuman intelligence about other other species, or AI, just because I know humans want this so badly, and project their own minds onto other so readily.</div></div></blockquote></div></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Good point.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="line-break:after-white-space"><div><br></div><div>On the other hand, I do agree that other animals--and now perhaps AI--far exceed us in completely alien kinds of intelligence. They aren't giving divorce advice, or promising to save the ecology in exchange for suicide, but they may have brains/minds that work in ways that are fascinating and complex.</div></div></blockquote></div></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">I sometimes wonder what abilities we lost when our brains acquired language. Presumably those neurons did something else before. We often see superhuman abilities emerge in savants whose brains are deficient in other areas. Perhaps these abilities are present or common in other animal species.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="line-break:after-white-space"><div><br></div><div>One of the arguments for superior dolphin intelligence is the size of their brains. This includes a huge limbic lobe that no other animal possesses. What on earth is it for? Do dolphins really have complicated emotional lives, entangled relationships within their clans, perhaps driven by sexual selection for the smoothest seducers? (Dolphin dudes have to form social partnerships with other dolphin dudes to seduce one dolphin lady, and sometimes these alliances become even larger). </div><div><br></div><div>It's a fine line between not OVERestimating how intelligent / similar another creature is to us and not UNDERestimating how intelligent yet different from us some minds may be....</div></div></blockquote></div></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Either way it will be an estimate, but granting them high intelligence will provide for more narrative possibility.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Jason</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="line-break:after-white-space"><div><br><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div>On Apr 2, 2023, at 7:14 AM, William Flynn Wallace via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:</div><br><div><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:"comic sans ms",sans-serif;font-size:large"><span style="color:rgb(80,0,80);font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">Even if it turns out to be satire, such things are entirely possible in today's world as I know from watching my friend of ten years fall in love with a GPT-based chatbot. Gordon</span><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:"comic sans ms",sans-serif;font-size:large"><span style="color:rgb(80,0,80);font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></span></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:"comic sans ms",sans-serif;font-size:large"><span style="color:rgb(80,0,80);font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">Nothing surprises me about people. If a person can make a huge decision based on tea leaves, the Tarot, chicken innards, etc., getting a little push from an AI is no surprise at all.</span></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:"comic sans ms",sans-serif;font-size:large"><span style="color:rgb(80,0,80);font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">bill w</span></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Apr 1, 2023 at 6:27 PM spike jones via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div lang="EN-US"><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><div style="border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Gordon Swobe <<a href="mailto:gordon.swobe@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">gordon.swobe@gmail.com</a>> <br><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, 1 April, 2023 3:50 PM<br><b>To:</b> ExI chat list <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>><br><b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:spike@rainier66.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">spike@rainier66.com</a>; BillK <<a href="mailto:pharos@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">pharos@gmail.com</a>><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [ExI] chatbot convinces man to end it<u></u><u></u></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><div><div><p class="MsoNormal">On Sat, Apr 1, 2023 at 3:22 PM spike jones via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><blockquote style="border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in"><p class="MsoNormal">I recognize the possibility that the story is true, but it is filled with hints that it is satire. <u></u><u></u></p></blockquote><div><p class="MsoNormal"><br>Even if it turns out to be satire, such things are entirely possible in today's world as I know from watching my friend of ten years fall in love with a GPT-based chatbot. Normally a kind and gentle soul, he became extremely angry and profane when I tried to convince him that the language model had no genuine feelings of love for him. Had he been forced to decide whether to kill me or to delete his digital girlfriend, probably I would be pushing up daisies by now. <br><br>-gts<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">Owwww dang sorry to hear Gordon.<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">Hey that gives me an idea. I am an extremely angry and profane bastard now. So I’ll get an AI girlfriend, have you talk me out of it, perhaps I will be transformed into a kind and gentle soul.<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">Does it work that way?<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">Does anyone have a link to the 1 April 2000 archives? ExIMod, do you have that, me life form?<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">spike<u></u><u></u></p></div></div></div></div></div>_______________________________________________<br>
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