<div dir="auto"><div><br><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Apr 4, 2023, 1:39 PM Ben Zaiboc via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
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On 04/04/2023 08:43, William Flynn Wallace wrote:<br>
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<td> <a href="mailto:foozler83@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"><foozler83@gmail.com></a></td>
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<div style="display:inline">Date: </div>
04/04/2023, 02:33</td>
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<div style="display:inline">To: </div>
ExI chat list <a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"><extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org></a></td>
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<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:large;color:#000000">Jason, I think,
wondered how many of us were dualists. I wonder too. Are
you? I am not. bill w</div>
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Not really a fair question, I think. Certainly not one that will
give us much of an idea.<br>
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The reason I think this, is that there are quite a large number of
people, I've observed over the years, that I classify as
'crypto-dualists'. That is, people who claim not to be dualist, but
whose arguments are firmly grounded in a dualistic mindset. This is
most clearly revealed in the (I hardly dare say it!) arguments about
identity in a 'mind-copying' scenario. The old 'If someone makes a
copy of my mind, is it still me?' question.<br>
<br>
I'm not trying to revive that tired old debate (because it never
goes anywhere useful, it just polarises entrenched opinions even
more), just using it to illustrate what I mean. In order to think
that a perfect copy of your mind isn't really you, you have to have
a dualistic mindset, regardless of what you claim. So, I think that
just asking the question won't get accurate answers. People may not
lie, but they may well be mistaken in their answer. It needs a test,
not a straightfowrward question, to reveal the truth.<br>
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So, Bill, you say you are not a dualist. Do you think that a perfect
copy of your mind, instantiated in any capable processing system
(including, but not limited to, another biological brain) is still
you?<br>
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Do you think it's possible for there to be two yous, each with equal
claim to be 'the real you'?<br>
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If you agree with both of these, I accept that you're not a dualist.<br>
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There are plenty of crypto-dualists on this list (or certainly were,
about 10 years ago). I have no intention of starting the argument up
again, just wanted to give my take on how this question isn't much
use.<br></div></blockquote></div></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">I very much like your idea of a position statement/test like this rather than a label which can be interpreted in various ways. And I think this question gets to the heart of the matter: is one's consciousness something fundamentally unexplainable/magical or not.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Personally I believe that duplicates are self.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Jason </div><div dir="auto"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><br></div>
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