<div dir="ltr"><br><div>Oh yes, that is why there are camps on <a href="http://canonizer.com">canonizer.com</a>. Stathis is in the <a href="https://canonizer.com/topic/88-Theories-of-Consciousness/8-Functional-Prprty-Dualism">Functionalist</a> camp, for example, while I am in the <a href="https://canonizer.com/topic/88-Theories-of-Consciousness/7-Qualia-are-Physical-Qualities">physicalist</a> camp, making different falsifiable predictions about the nature of qualities. And so far, there is a clear consensus that redness is not a quality of the strawberry, it is a quality of our knowledge of the strawberry, redness is a quality of something in our head. As far as I know,nobody here has disagreed with that general idea.</div><div>And, again, if anyone disagrees, with this or anything, I would very much like to know exactly what it is you disagree with, and what you do believe.</div><div><br></div><div>And most importantly of all. How might any different theory be falsified, for the supporters of that theory. All the current camps have described how their predictions could be falsified.</div><div>So, the rest is up to the experimentalists, as described by this theoretical work, to force everyone into a scientific consensus.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Apr 8, 2023 at 6:43 PM Will Steinberg via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto">Brent, do you think perhaps people might understand the info and images in your camp from your website, which you have posted probably hundreds od times, and they just disagree with you?</div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Apr 8, 2023, 1:50 PM Brent Allsop via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><br><div>I keep showing this image, attempting to communicate something:</div><div><br></div><div><img src="cid:ii_lg89ae9w0" alt="3_functionally_equal_machines_tiny.png" width="320" height="118"></div><div>Sure, our elementary school teacher told us the one on the left is red, the one in the middle is green, and the one on the right is just the word 'Red'.</div><div><br></div><div>But it is evident from all these conversations, that nobody here understands the deeper meaning I'm attempting to communicate.</div><div>Some people seem to be getting close, which is nice, but they may not yet be fully there.</div><div>If everyone fully understood this, all these conversations would be radically different.</div><div>Even if you disagree with me, can anyone describe the deeper meaning I'm attempting to communicate with this image?</div><div>What does this image say about qualities, different ways of representing information, and different ways of doing computation?</div><div><br></div><div>How about this, I'll give $100 worth of Ether, or just USD, to anyone who can fully describe the meaning attempting to be portrayed with this image.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Apr 8, 2023 at 10:27 AM Gordon Swobe via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div><br><span style="color:rgb(80,0,80)">On Sat, Apr 8, 2023 at 9:31 AM Jason Resch <</span><a href="mailto:jasonresch@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">jasonresch@gmail.com</a><span style="color:rgb(80,0,80)">> wrote:</span><br></div><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote" dir="auto"><span style="color:rgb(80,0,80)"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Apr 8, 2023, 10:45 AM Gordon Swobe <<a href="mailto:gordon.swobe@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">gordon.swobe@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div></span><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><br></div><div><span style="color:rgb(80,0,80)">On Sat, Apr 8, 2023 at 3:43 AM Jason Resch via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br></span><div class="gmail_quote"><span style="color:rgb(80,0,80)"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr"><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto"><div><br>There is phenomenal consciousness. That I would call awareness of first person non-sharable information concerning one's internal states of mind.</div></div></blockquote><div dir="auto"><br></div></span><div dir="auto">It is this phenomenal consciousness to which I refer. If you do not think there something it is like to be a large language model then we have no disagreement.</div></div></div></blockquote></div><span style="color:rgb(80,0,80)"><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">I believe there is something it is like to be for either the LLM, or something inside it.</div></span></div></blockquote><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Not sure what you mean by something inside it. A philosopher named Thomas Nagel wrote a famous paper titled something like “What is it like to be a bat?” That is the sense that I mean here. Do you think there something it is like to be GPT-4? When you ask it a question and it replies, is it aware of its own private first person experience in the sense that we are aware of our private experience? Or does it have no awareness of any supposed experience?</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">-gts</div></div></div><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex" dir="auto"><div dir="auto"><div dir="auto"></div></div></blockquote><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex" dir="auto"><div dir="auto"><div dir="auto"></div></div>
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