<div dir="ltr">Brent has proposed that something physical in the brain is responsible for redness, and he has proposed the molecular/protein level as a candidate, giving the example of the neurotransmitter glutamate. But there are a great number of different levels operating concurrently in the brain, and I wonder: why choose any particular level as more important than any other to associate with redness? We see for example, at a quick glance:<div><br></div><div><table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" dir="ltr" border="1" style="table-layout:fixed;font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial;width:0px;border-collapse:collapse;border:none"><colgroup><col width="157"><col width="323"></colgroup><tbody><tr style="height:21px"><td style="overflow:hidden;padding:2px 3px;vertical-align:bottom;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid rgb(204,204,204)">Level</td><td style="overflow:hidden;padding:2px 3px;vertical-align:bottom;font-weight:bold;border:1px solid rgb(204,204,204)">Examples of things operating at this level</td></tr><tr style="height:21px"><td style="overflow:hidden;padding:2px 3px;vertical-align:bottom;border:1px solid rgb(204,204,204)">Whole Brain</td><td style="overflow:hidden;padding:2px 3px;vertical-align:bottom;border:1px solid rgb(204,204,204)">Human Brain, Dolphin Brain</td></tr><tr style="height:21px"><td style="overflow:hidden;padding:2px 3px;vertical-align:bottom;border:1px solid rgb(204,204,204)">Brain Hemispheres</td><td style="overflow:hidden;padding:2px 3px;vertical-align:bottom;border:1px solid rgb(204,204,204)">Left Brain Hemisphere, Right Brain Hemisphere</td></tr><tr style="height:21px"><td style="overflow:hidden;padding:2px 3px;vertical-align:bottom;border:1px solid rgb(204,204,204)">Brain regions</td><td style="overflow:hidden;padding:2px 3px;vertical-align:bottom;border:1px solid rgb(204,204,204)">Frontal lobe, Occipital lobe, Corpus callosum</td></tr><tr style="height:21px"><td style="overflow:hidden;padding:2px 3px;vertical-align:bottom;border:1px solid rgb(204,204,204)">Brain modules</td><td style="overflow:hidden;padding:2px 3px;vertical-align:bottom;border:1px solid rgb(204,204,204)">Broca's Area, Hippocampus, Visual Cortex</td></tr><tr style="height:21px"><td style="overflow:hidden;padding:2px 3px;vertical-align:bottom;border:1px solid rgb(204,204,204)">Higher Level Networks</td><td style="overflow:hidden;padding:2px 3px;vertical-align:bottom;border:1px solid rgb(204,204,204)">Subunits of visual cortex, Subunits of visual cortex</td></tr><tr style="height:21px"><td style="overflow:hidden;padding:2px 3px;vertical-align:bottom;border:1px solid rgb(204,204,204)">Neocortical Columns</td><td style="overflow:hidden;padding:2px 3px;vertical-align:bottom;border:1px solid rgb(204,204,204)">Pattern Recognizers, Classifiers, Discriminators</td></tr><tr style="height:21px"><td style="overflow:hidden;padding:2px 3px;vertical-align:bottom;border:1px solid rgb(204,204,204)">Neural Connections</td><td style="overflow:hidden;padding:2px 3px;vertical-align:bottom;border:1px solid rgb(204,204,204)">Connections, Inhibitory and Excitatory Signals, Firing</td></tr><tr style="height:21px"><td style="overflow:hidden;padding:2px 3px;vertical-align:bottom;border:1px solid rgb(204,204,204)">Neuronal Level</td><td style="overflow:hidden;padding:2px 3px;vertical-align:bottom;border:1px solid rgb(204,204,204)">Neurons, Dendrites, Axons</td></tr><tr style="height:21px"><td style="overflow:hidden;padding:2px 3px;vertical-align:bottom;border:1px solid rgb(204,204,204)">Cellular Level</td><td style="overflow:hidden;padding:2px 3px;vertical-align:bottom;border:1px solid rgb(204,204,204)">Stem Cells, Blood Cells, Nerve Cells</td></tr><tr style="height:21px"><td style="overflow:hidden;padding:2px 3px;vertical-align:bottom;border:1px solid rgb(204,204,204)">Intracellular Level</td><td style="overflow:hidden;padding:2px 3px;vertical-align:bottom;border:1px solid rgb(204,204,204)">Organelles, ATP, Mitochondria</td></tr><tr style="height:21px"><td style="overflow:hidden;padding:2px 3px;vertical-align:bottom;border:1px solid rgb(204,204,204)">Protein Level</td><td style="overflow:hidden;padding:2px 3px;vertical-align:bottom;border:1px solid rgb(204,204,204)">Genes, Ribosomes, Proteins</td></tr><tr style="height:21px"><td style="overflow:hidden;padding:2px 3px;vertical-align:bottom;border:1px solid rgb(204,204,204)">Molecular Biology</td><td style="overflow:hidden;padding:2px 3px;vertical-align:bottom;border:1px solid rgb(204,204,204)">Amino Acids, Peptides, Base Pairs</td></tr><tr style="height:21px"><td style="overflow:hidden;padding:2px 3px;vertical-align:bottom;border:1px solid rgb(204,204,204)">Molecular Level</td><td style="overflow:hidden;padding:2px 3px;vertical-align:bottom;border:1px solid rgb(204,204,204)">Molecules, Covalent Bonds, Ionic Bonds</td></tr><tr style="height:21px"><td style="overflow:hidden;padding:2px 3px;vertical-align:bottom;border:1px solid rgb(204,204,204)">Atomic Level</td><td style="overflow:hidden;padding:2px 3px;vertical-align:bottom;border:1px solid rgb(204,204,204)">Chemicals, Ions, Electron Orbitals</td></tr><tr style="height:21px"><td style="overflow:hidden;padding:2px 3px;vertical-align:bottom;border:1px solid rgb(204,204,204)">Nuclear Physics</td><td style="overflow:hidden;padding:2px 3px;vertical-align:bottom;border:1px solid rgb(204,204,204)">Atomic Nuclei, Chemical Elements, Isotopes</td></tr><tr style="height:21px"><td style="overflow:hidden;padding:2px 3px;vertical-align:bottom;border:1px solid rgb(204,204,204)">Baryon Level</td><td style="overflow:hidden;padding:2px 3px;vertical-align:bottom;border:1px solid rgb(204,204,204)">Quarks and Gluons, Protons, Neutrons</td></tr><tr style="height:21px"><td style="overflow:hidden;padding:2px 3px;vertical-align:bottom;border:1px solid rgb(204,204,204)">Subatomic Particles</td><td style="overflow:hidden;padding:2px 3px;vertical-align:bottom;border:1px solid rgb(204,204,204)">Quarks, Electrons, Photons</td></tr><tr style="height:21px"><td style="overflow:hidden;padding:2px 3px;vertical-align:bottom;border:1px solid rgb(204,204,204)">Quantum Fields</td><td style="overflow:hidden;padding:2px 3px;vertical-align:bottom;border:1px solid rgb(204,204,204)">force fields, matter fields, Higgs field</td></tr></tbody></table><br></div><div>When every level above could be called a "physical" level, why should we limit the investigation to the protein level of neurotransmitters?</div><div><br></div><div>If molecules/proteins, are in the end, just patterns of activity of quantum fields, why can't the patterns of activity of higher-complexity (still quantum fields) such as the processing done by the visual cortex, count as a pattern of activity open to investigation?</div><div><br></div><div>If lower order patterns of activity (quarks, atoms, molecules, proteins) etc. are possible candidates to explain "redness", why can't these higher order patterns of activity be candidates for redness? (Or do you consider them to be viable candidates?)</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>An extra question, consider this quote from the physicist John Wheeler:</div><div><br></div><blockquote style="margin:0 0 0 40px;border:none;padding:0px"><div><p style="box-sizing:inherit;border:0px;font-family:"Libre Baskerville",serif;margin:0px;outline:0px;padding:0px;vertical-align:baseline"><font color="#000000">"Now I am in the grip of a new vision, that Everything is Information. The more I have pondered the mystery of the quantum and our strange ability to comprehend this world in which we live, the more I see possible fundamental roles for logic and information as the bedrock of physical theory."</font></p></div><div><p style="box-sizing:inherit;border:0px;font-family:"Libre Baskerville",serif;margin:0px;outline:0px;padding:0px;vertical-align:baseline"><font color="#000000">-- <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Archibald_Wheeler" style="font-family:inherit;background-color:transparent;font-style:inherit;font-weight:inherit;box-sizing:inherit;border:0px;margin:0px;outline:0px;padding:0px;vertical-align:baseline;text-decoration-line:none">John Archibald Wheeler</a><span style="font-family:Lato,sans-serif"> </span><span style="font-family:Lato,sans-serif">in “</span><a href="https://www.google.com/books/edition/Geons_Black_Holes_and_Quantum_Foam_A_Lif/zGFkK2tTXPsC?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=The%20more%20I%20have%20pondered%20the%20mystery%20of%20the%20quantum%20and%20our%20strange%20ability%20to%20comprehend%20this%20world%20in%20which%20we%20live%2C%20the%20more%20I%20see%20possible%20fundamental%20roles%20for%20logic%20and%20information%20as%20the%20bedrock%20of%20physical%20theory.&pg=PA64&printsec=frontcover&bsq=The%20more%20I%20have%20pondered%20the%20mystery%20of%20the%20quantum%20and%20our%20strange%20ability%20to%20comprehend%20this%20world%20in%20which%20we%20live%2C%20the%20more%20I%20see%20possible%20fundamental%20roles%20for%20logic%20and%20information%20as%20the%20bedrock%20of%20physical%20theory." style="font-family:inherit;background-color:transparent;font-style:inherit;font-weight:inherit;box-sizing:inherit;border:0px;margin:0px;outline:0px;padding:0px;vertical-align:baseline;text-decoration-line:none"><em style="box-sizing:inherit;border:0px;font-family:inherit;font-weight:inherit;margin:0px;outline:0px;padding:0px;vertical-align:baseline">Geons</em>, <em style="box-sizing:inherit;border:0px;font-family:inherit;font-weight:inherit;margin:0px;outline:0px;padding:0px;vertical-align:baseline">Black Holes</em>, and <em style="box-sizing:inherit;border:0px;font-family:inherit;font-weight:inherit;margin:0px;outline:0px;padding:0px;vertical-align:baseline">Quantum Foam</em></a><span style="font-family:Lato,sans-serif">” (1998)</span></font></p></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>If Wheeler's speculation is right, then there exists another level below quantum fields, one of essentially pure information. What would that imply about the patterns of activity necessary for redness? Would that not imply that redness is, at some level (even if it is only associated with glutamate) in the end, nothing but a particular pattern of information processing?</div><div><br></div><div>Jason</div></div>