<div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><br><div>Hay Daniel,</div><div>Welcome to the conversation. Always fun to have a new guy join what we've been arguing over on this forum since the 90s. ;)</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Apr 14, 2023 at 5:53 AM efc--- via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><br>
On Thu, 13 Apr 2023, Jason Resch via extropy-chat wrote:<br>
> <br>
> Communication is only possible where there exists common ground. We have common ground in the quanta/numbers/measurements of the<br>
> physical world, but we lack common ground between our own internal states of mind.<br>
> <br>
> Which part is it that you disagree with:<br>
> 1. That qualia are real<br>
> 2. That qualia cannot be communicated<br>
> <br>
<br>
Depending on the definition, I disagree with 2. I agree that we have<br>
experiences as proven by brain scans when we're exposed to various<br>
experiences. So if instead of qualia, we'd say experiences, I have no<br>
quarrel with experiences or states in the brain being real.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>So are you saying you can communicate what a redness property is like, to someone who has never experienced redness before, with only abstract text?</div><div><br></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">> There are plenty of concepts that can be argued, are real, but can never<br>
> be experienced by others or communicated, and I think this is fertile<br>
> breeding ground for misconceptions and endless debates.<br>
> <br>
> Perhaps this accounts for the endless debates around consciousness over the past few hundred years.<br>
<br>
I absolutely think that language is to blame here.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Yes, you must have language that uses more than one abstract word 'red' to represent different properties which can represent red. Otherwise it is quality property blind.</div><div><br></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">> I read a long post on your blog and I quite liked it. Maybe you could<br>
> even expand on it by writing a book? =)<br>
> <br>
> I am. :-)<br>
<br>
Looking forward to it! =)<br>
<br>
> Are you sure? I would say that the scientist wants to find the truth and<br>
> increase his understanding, but the theist would want to experience the<br>
> truth, but has no requirements when it comes to understanding and the<br>
> way or methodology of finding it.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>We want to discover 12 new phenomenal primary colorness properties no human has ever experienced before. Then build a brain which uses all my current 3 primary colorness qualities, but also includes those additional 12. Then increase the resolution of my conscious knowledge 100 times, each pixel possibly having all those colors. I want the size of that high resolution bubble world to be not just a few kilometers, but more than 1000 kilometers.</div><div><br></div><div>Then I want to computationally blind that brain with my own, so not only can I experience my small, low resolution, 3 primary color knowledge of the world, at the same time as I experience the new large high resolution knowledge with far more color depth with each pixel. I want to be able to have my knowledge of my spirit, have an out of body experience within this merged helf small low res, and half large high res world, and move across to the other brain. (in a much more realistic way than portrayed in movies, where you go down a tube)</div><div><br></div><div>In other words, I want to be phenomenally uploaded into an avatar with far higher resolution, higher color depth and a visual perception system brain. AND I want to know what it is like, in the old and new brain, all at the same time, in one computationally bound composite conscious experience.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div> </div></div></div>