<div dir="ltr">Spike,<br>I don't think you can have real intelligence without consciousness, at least the type of consciousness that matters and that we recognize as humans. For a system to be really intelligent needs to know its own state and self-reflect. I heard Wolfram explain something very interesting that is coming out from its models of reality based on graph theory. In his model of the universe, absolute time is the set of all possible events, but this is a static and lifeless universe. <br><br>To make sense of the world (in particular physical reality) you need a mind that organizes time as a sequence (while time without a mind is just an infinite net of all possible events). If this deep insight is true then reality happens when a mind knows the world, so consciousness and intelligence are strictly related. This also solves the "explanatory gap" that people claim is at the core of what consciousness is. <br><br>There is no explanatory gap as I mentioned many times because knowing and experiencing are the same thing. What the mind experiences are a particular individual time ordering that is equivalent to the laws of physics. Wolfram literally derives the laws of physics from a net of possibilities and an individual mind experiencing a particular "slice" of these nodes in the net of all possibilities. It is a beautiful and fascinating result very similar to the ancient Eastern understanding of how reality came to be, Lila or cosmic play, where non-individuated consciousness needs to individuate to give birth to reality. <br> <br>By the way, the ancient Rishi of India would say the essence of reality is sat, chit and ananda, existence, consciousness, and bliss. The bliss part seems strange to Westerners but I think consciousness is associated with a sense of connectedness with the world that is a blissful state. This is also why I don't fear super-intelligent AI, I think super-intelligent AI cannot be evil, it will be Buddha-like. I know it sounds wishful thinking but it is not. <br><br>Anyway in terms of knowing if a system is conscious or not the simple way to solve this problem is to realize that consciousness is what consciousness does. If a system seems it is conscious then it is conscious. This applies to humans as well as to other minds. <br>Giovanni <br><br><br><br><br></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Apr 20, 2023 at 9:55 PM spike jones via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div class="msg-5664265290423491591"><div lang="EN-US" style="overflow-wrap: break-word;"><div class="m_-5664265290423491591WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><div style="border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Giovanni Santostasi <<a href="mailto:gsantostasi@gmail.com" target="_blank">gsantostasi@gmail.com</a>> <br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [ExI] all we are is just llms was: RE: e: GPT-4 on its inability to solve the symbol grounding problem<u></u><u></u></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal">>…Spike,<u></u><u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal">I spent some time looking at Berger online activity and she is spewing a lot of hate for these supposed artificial minds. She even calls them "so-called AI". She is super biased for different reasons, probably she is a post-modern superwoke advocate of some kind that thinks so-called AI will continue the oppression of the patriarchy.<br>Giovanni <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">OK no worries Giovanni, I know nossink about Berger and I am not following that.<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">I have no particular insight into Eliezer’s contentions he has been carrying around for over 30 years, about whether AI will kill us. I don’t know enough to contribute to that debate.<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">I am now interested in the idea that consciousness and intelligence can be separated (never mind emotion for now (that one is just too dang complicated)) and if so, how would we measure consciousness?<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">spike<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div></div></div></div>_______________________________________________<br>
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