<div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div>Hi Ben,</div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Apr 22, 2023 at 5:48 AM Ben Zaiboc via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
  
    
  
  <div>You might find this guy's posts interesting:<br>
<a href="https://seantrott.substack.com/p/humans-llms-and-the-symbol-grounding-fc4" target="_blank">https://seantrott.substack.com/p/humans-llms-and-the-symbol-grounding-fc4</a><br>
    </div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I found this paragraph from a section on congenitally blind people's experience of color in that article very insightful.</div><div><br></div><div>"<span style="color:rgb(64,64,64);font-family:Spectral,serif,-apple-system,BlinkMacSystemFont,"Segoe UI",Roboto,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif,"Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI Emoji","Segoe UI Symbol";font-size:19px">The takeaway from this work is that despite not having access to particular </span><em style="color:rgb(64,64,64);font-family:Spectral,serif,-apple-system,BlinkMacSystemFont,"Segoe UI",Roboto,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif,"Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI Emoji","Segoe UI Symbol";font-size:19px">phenomenological experiences</em><span style="color:rgb(64,64,64);font-family:Spectral,serif,-apple-system,BlinkMacSystemFont,"Segoe UI",Roboto,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif,"Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI Emoji","Segoe UI Symbol";font-size:19px">, blind individuals display a coherent conceptual understanding of color––and importantly, one that is often correlated with sighted individuals’ understanding.</span>"</div><div><br></div><div>Notice how just like Ben, (very different from gordan and I)? This guy tries as hard as he can to dismiss the significance of "<span style="color:rgb(64,64,64);font-family:Spectral,serif,-apple-system,BlinkMacSystemFont,"Segoe UI",Roboto,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif,"Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI Emoji","Segoe UI Symbol";font-size:19px">despite not having access to particular </span><em style="color:rgb(64,64,64);font-family:Spectral,serif,-apple-system,BlinkMacSystemFont,"Segoe UI",Roboto,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif,"Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI Emoji","Segoe UI Symbol";font-size:19px">phenomenological experiences</em>".  He, instead, wants you to only focus on and agree that: "<span style="color:rgb(64,64,64);font-family:Spectral,serif,-apple-system,BlinkMacSystemFont,"Segoe UI",Roboto,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif,"Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI Emoji","Segoe UI Symbol";font-size:19px">display a coherent conceptual understanding of color––and importantly, one that is often correlated with sighted individuals’ understanding.</span>"</div><div><br></div><div>Ben, would you (and the author of that piece?) consider something with only abstract knowledge (words like 'red') to be phenomenally conscious like us, who represent knowledge of red things with a redness subjective quality?</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div> </div></div></div>