<div dir="ltr">Brent,<div>This video has been linked already. Can you please go to minute 19:34 and see the examples where the AI is fed only blood flow activity in the brain and reconstruct the image the person sees? No glutamate is involved! Only patterns! We already discussed this but can you see how all the relevant info is only patterns (and in fact, it is represented by the weights and connections in the net)? <br>What else needs to be added? <br><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoVJKj8lcNQ&t=855s">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoVJKj8lcNQ&t=855s</a><br>Giovanni <br><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Apr 28, 2023 at 4:57 PM Giovanni Santostasi <<a href="mailto:gsantostasi@gmail.com">gsantostasi@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Jason,<div>And that is the same idea of the ancient Shivaists, in particular the Kashmir version, with their concepts of Spanda and Lila, the vibrations that give rise to the moment of awareness and the cosmic play where the undifferentiated awareness individuates and gives rise to creation by forgetting or reducing its infinite nature. <br>Giovanni </div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Apr 28, 2023 at 4:46 PM Jason Resch via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto"><div><br><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Apr 28, 2023, 7:32 PM Giovanni Santostasi <<a href="mailto:gsantostasi@gmail.com" target="_blank">gsantostasi@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Hi Jason,<br>Did you see some of the latest Wolfram videos on physics emerging from his graph models? He has a very interesting idea on how consciousness and individuation gives rise to the dynamics of the laws of physics from the set of all possibilities.<br>I think he is into something here. <br>Giovanni </div></blockquote></div></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">I have. I think his article on the Ruliad is on the right path. It is converging to ideas of Bruno Marchal, Russell Standish, and Markus Muller, whose ideas show we can recover much of physical law from first principles regarding observation, but I don't think Wolfram is aware of this work. I sent him an email last year but haven't yet received a reply. Below is what I wrote to him:</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">________________________________</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Dear Stephen Wolfram,</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">I recently came across your article "Why Does the Universe Exist? Some Perspectives from Our Physics Project" and found it to be both fascinating and expertly explained.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">I had written an article that reached nearly identical conclusions ("Why does anything exist?").</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">The reason I am writing to you, and the reason I share my article with you is because I think you might be quite interested in the citations and references it contains to other research and researchers who have been operating along these same lines of reasoning. Among them are:</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Bruno Marchal in “The computationalist reformulation of the mind-body problem” (2013)</div><div dir="auto">This, along with his 1989 PhD thesis showed how if all computations exist, we must derive the laws of physics from the structure of all computations, and showed how a quantum logic emerges from such a structure.</div><div dir="auto">Markus Müller in “Law without law: from observer states to physics via algorithmic information theory” (2020)</div><div dir="auto">Derives many properties of physics, such as time, a big bang, simple computable probabilistic laws, from algorithmic information theory applied to all computations.</div><div dir="auto">Russell Standish in “Theory of Nothing” (2006)</div><div dir="auto">Derives aspects of quantum mechanics, including the Shrodinger equation, from very simple assumptions concerning observation within an infinite ensemble</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">I hope that these references may be of use to you and to your Physics Project.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Sincerely,</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Jason Resch</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">________________________________</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">I completed my article about a month before Wolfram's article came out, otherwise I would have cited his work extensively.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Jason </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Apr 28, 2023 at 3:22 PM Jason Resch via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto"><div><br><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Apr 28, 2023, 12:46 AM Giovanni Santostasi via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">I used to believe that consciousness is fundamental because of my interest in Eastern philosophy. But it is a lie. <br></div></blockquote></div></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">I would say that consciousness is not the most fundamental aspect of reality (I would put Truth in that category, and from truth, next we get numbers and their mathematical relations). From mathematical relations we get computations, and from computations, consciousness.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">So then there is a real sense in which consciousness is more fundamental than physics. Apparent physical universes, and their laws and properties emerge from the psychology of Turing machines. Or put another way: physical reality is what platonic conscious computations dream.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">This is a form of idealism, but one structured by mathematical laws and the probability distribution as defined by algorithmic information theory, and an idealism that defines the relation between the three modes of existence: the mathematical, material, and mental realities.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Jason </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><br>Giovanni </div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Apr 27, 2023 at 9:34 PM Gordon Swobe via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Quite by accident, I happened upon this quote of Erwin Schrodinger this evening.<br><br>"Consciousness cannot be explained in physical terms. Because consciousness is absolutely fundamental. It cannot be explained in any other terms." <br><br>That is actually what I also hold to be true about consciousness, though not necessarily for reasons related to quantum mechanics or eastern philosophy. (Schrodinger is said to have been influenced by eastern philosophy). <br><br>-gts<br><br>-gts </div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Apr 27, 2023 at 8:43 PM spike jones via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div lang="EN-US"><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><div style="border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Gordon Swobe <<a href="mailto:gordon.swobe@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">gordon.swobe@gmail.com</a>> <br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [ExI] Ben Goertzel on Large Language Models<u></u><u></u></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><div><div><p class="MsoNormal">On Thu, Apr 27, 2023 at 6:51 PM spike jones via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><blockquote style="border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in"><div><div><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal">It looks to me like GPT has intelligence without consciousness.<u></u><u></u></p></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><p class="MsoNormal"><br>>…That is how it looks to me also, and to GPT-4. When asked if consciousness and intelligence are separable, it replied that the question is difficult to answer with biological systems, but...<br><br>>…"From the perspective of artificial intelligence, it is possible to create systems with high levels of intelligence that lack consciousness. AI models like mine can learn from vast amounts of data and perform complex tasks, but we do not have subjective experiences or self-awareness." - GPT4<br><br>-gts<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">This leads to a disturbing thought: intelligence without consciousness becomes Eliezer’s unfriendly AI.<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">Since I am on the topic of disturbing thoughts, I had an idea today as I was in Costco going past the item shown below. Compare now to fifty years ago. Some of us here may remember spring of 1973. I do.<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">Imagine it is 1973 and suddenly all networked computers stopped working or began working incorrectly, such as being completely choked with spam.<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><img border="0" width="247" height="316" style="width: 2.5729in; height: 3.2916in;" id="m_-780108305928298556m_53763392497622295m_1815802376878784650m_9017728839285681998m_4068164759599170799m_-2554786472538220745m_-4507991345249670481Picture_x0020_1" src="cid:187c60b7d164ce8e91"><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">Most of the things we had in 1973 would still work, as we were not heavily dependent on the internet then.<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">Now imagine that happening today all networked computers quit or are overwhelmed so they don’t work right. It really isn’t as simple as returning to 1973-level technology. We cannot do that, for we have long since abandoned the necessary skillsets and infrastructure needed to sustain society at that tech level. If you think about the most immediate consequences, they are horrifying. It wouldn’t take long for all the food to be gone and no more would be coming in, for the networks needed for transportation infrastructure would all be down. Most of the population in the tech advanced civilizations would perish from starvation or violence in the resulting panicked chaos.<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">There are those who would see the destruction of a large fraction of humanity as a good thing: radical greens for instance.<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">This is what caused me to comment that humans using AI for bad ends is a more immediate existential risk than is unfriendly AI. This unfriendly AI would not necessarily wish to destroy humanity, but an unfriendly BI will use AI, which would remorselessly participate in any nefarious plot it was asked to do. <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">spike <u></u><u></u></p></div></div></div></div></div>_______________________________________________<br>
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