<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class="">Of all the ways you guys think about consciousness (other than just simplistic functionalism), which way of thinking about things do you think has the most consensus?</div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div>Most of us here (I presume) don’t care much about how much consensus a theory has, but rather how logical it is. The viewpoint that consciousness/qualia is a process rather than a physical object seems to be the most logical theory we have so far.<br class=""><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On May 1, 2023, at 5:48 PM, Brent Allsop via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" class="">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class="">Thanks for the data point. If that is the case, I wish I could know, concisely and quantitatively, what everyone does think, and why, and I wish we could track this as we continue to talk, so we could know if any progress is being made. One way or another. I know I've learned a lot, and feel like I've progressed, from these conversations. And you can see that progress in the history of the camps as they have developed over the last 10 years.<div class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div></div><div class="">Of all the ways you guys think about consciousness (other than just simplistic functionalism), which way of thinking about things do you think has the most consensus?</div></div><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, May 1, 2023 at 1:15 PM Gadersd via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" class="">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br class=""></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style="overflow-wrap: break-word;" class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class=""> I'm glad at least one person can understand what I've been trying to figure out how to say,since back in the 90s.</div><div class="">Coming up with the model of how qualia might work was the easy part. Learning how to communicate it to everyone is a gazillion times harder.</div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div>I think you have “communicating” and “convincing” confused. I am confident that most members on the list understand what your theory is. The problem is that we just don’t find it convincing.<br class=""><div class=""><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On May 1, 2023, at 11:20 AM, Brent Allsop via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank" class="">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><br class=""><div class="">Yay, Will's got it!!</div><div class="">Thanks Will. I'm glad at least one person can understand what I've been trying to figure out how to say,since back in the 90s.</div><div class="">Coming up with the model of how qualia might work was the easy part. Learning how to communicate it to everyone is a gazillion times harder.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">So does that mean you would agree with a definition of consciousness to be something like "computationally bound elemental qualities?"</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Could you concisely describe your model of consciousness, or the way you think about it?</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div></div><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, May 1, 2023 at 6:39 AM Will Steinberg via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank" class="">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br class=""></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto" class=""><div class="">It means, I think, "the conformation of physical reality that produces the red quale, on the layer of physical reality that is responsible for qualia"<br class=""><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, May 1, 2023, 5:09 AM Ben Zaiboc via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br class=""></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">I have a question:<br class="">
<br class="">
Can someone please explain, in simple terms, what the phrase "Elemental <br class="">
Redness" actually means?<br class="">
<br class="">
Preferably not Brent (sorry, Brent, but it's just that I never <br class="">
understand what you're saying, so an explanation from you would be <br class="">
useless to me. Unless, of course, you can drop the jargon for once and <br class="">
just use plain old english, but I think that's unlikely).<br class="">
<br class="">
The reason I ask is that it seems to mean different things to different <br class="">
people, and it doesn't mean anything to me.<br class="">
<br class="">
Ben<br class="">
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