<div dir="ltr">Brent,<br>I click on the link you provided and immediately I see a still from the video that says "so it can be mistaken if not correctly interpreted". I gave you all the evidence in the world that this is exactly what happens with color illusions.<div>How does your model of color account for this if it is not due to an error in interpretation? <br>Please explain.<br>Giovanni </div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, May 3, 2023 at 7:34 PM Brent Allsop via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><br></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, May 2, 2023 at 8:31 AM William Flynn Wallace via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div style="font-family:"comic sans ms",sans-serif;font-size:large;color:rgb(0,0,0)">What is the label for a person who thinks that "brain excitation causes experience" is wrong and that 'brain excitation IS experience'?  bill w</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, May 2, 2023 at 7:56 AM Ben Zaiboc via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><br>
On 02/05/2023 02:42, Jason Resch wrote:<br>
> I don't follow why saying that "experience is" rather than "experience <br>
> is caused" escapes or answers the question of who is having the <br>
> experience.<br>
<br>
<br>
The 'who' is the neural pattern. This is the central point.<br>
<br>
I suppose you could say "experience is caused by the neural pattern, in <br>
the neural pattern", but that might be more confusing. To me at least, <br>
it's clearer to say the experience and the neural pattern are the same <br>
thing.<br>
<br>
The point is to eliminate the dualism implicit in the language used. <br>
It's not "my experience is caused by these neural patterns" (which <br>
implies the question "what am I? What is it that these patterns cause to <br>
have the experience?"), it's "I am these neural patterns, having this <br>
experience". </blockquote></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Thank you Ben.  All the people that use<a href="https://canonizer.com/videos/consciousness?chapter=differentiating+reality+and+knowledge+of+reality&format=360&t=400" target="_blank"> terms that separate consciousness from physical reality</a> aren't much better than <a href="https://canonizer.com/topic/88-Theories-of-Consciousness/48-Substance-Dualism" target="_blank">dualists</a>, and non <a href="https://canonizer.com/topic/88-Theories-of-Consciousness/17-Mind-Brain-Identity" target="_blank">mind brain identity theorists</a>, in my current opinion.</div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">And no, that doesn't mean only patterns created by <br>
biological neurons will do. Anything capable of producing the same <br>
patterns will produce the same result: Me.<br>
<br>
Ben<br>
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