<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:large;color:#000000">There is no way we can even begin to pay off our debt without raising taxes. The Defense budget is absurd but no one will touch that. No one will touch Social Security or Medicare orMedicaid, so where will the money come from? bill w</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, May 19, 2023 at 3:47 PM efc--- via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Hello Bill,<br>
<br>
Having grown up in a heavily socialist country, and having studied economy, I'm <br>
afraid I do not share your view that high taxes can be a good thing in any <br>
way.<br>
<br>
I do however agree with your opinion, that "he who has the most stuff when <br>
he dies" is not a sound attitude to life.<br>
<br>
But given what I've studied and experienced, as well as having met and <br>
spoken with a lot of people who lived in soviet russia, there is very <br>
little that can convince me that high taxes are a good thing.<br>
<br>
Best regards,<br>
Daniel<br>
<br>
<br>
On Fri, 19 May 2023, William Flynn Wallace via extropy-chat wrote:<br>
<br>
> Thanks, DAniel. All of the strictly socialist countries are poor and have few friends. High taxes can be a good thing if you want<br>
> to help other people live a good and healthy life. We need high taxes here because of our enormous debt (but we won't get them - we<br>
> love bread and circuses and low taxes. We lead the world in storage facilities for people to store their stuff. One of the fastest<br>
> growing businesses. Have to have 'stuff' to outdo your neighbors.<br>
> <br>
> 'He who has the most stuff when he dies, wins') bill w <br>
> <br>
> On Fri, May 19, 2023 at 1:10 PM efc--- via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br>
> Hello Bill,<br>
><br>
> It depends on how strict you are with your definitions. The swedish state<br>
> is among the biggest in the world relative to the rest of the economy, and<br>
> thus wields enormous market power being one of the biggest actors on the<br>
> market.<br>
><br>
> In addition to that, they stipulate laws and policies you have to follow<br>
> in case you want to do business with the government.<br>
><br>
> Last, but not least, for SMB:s the taxes are quite high, which also<br>
> distorts market forces.<br>
><br>
> So, no, the swedish government does not directly decide what the market<br>
> should do, but through the methods above, exerts an enormous force on it<br>
> making it work less efficiently.<br>
><br>
> From the individuals point of view as well, given that fact that for most,<br>
> more than half of their income goes away in taxes, I'd also argue that it<br>
> is heavily socialist.<br>
><br>
> Best regards,<br>
> Daniel<br>
> <br>
><br>
> On Fri, 19 May 2023, William Flynn Wallace via extropy-chat wrote:<br>
><br>
> > I am not sure that's right, that Sweden is a socialist country. I thought that the government did not run the economy,<br>
> and that's<br>
> > the defining element in socialism. bill w<br>
> ><br>
> > On Fri, May 19, 2023 at 10:03 AM efc--- via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br>
> ><br>
> > On Thu, 18 May 2023, Gadersd via extropy-chat wrote:<br>
> ><br>
> > >> In fact, I fear that the EU, as always, will stifle this wave of innovation as well and fall behind in yet<br>
> another<br>
> > area.<br>
> > ><br>
> > > Do you think the EU will experience a massive brain drain as people move where AI is more accessible? Would<br>
> this<br>
> > possiblility incentivize the EU to soften its regulations? I don’t see how an advanced economy can remain<br>
> advanced and<br>
> > competitive without embracing new technologies that other nations adopt.<br>
> > ><br>
> ><br>
> > I not only think the EU will experience a massive brain drain, I think<br>
> > the EU _is_ experiencing a massive brain drain at the moment. It is a<br>
> > region with the worlds highest taxes and most burdensome administration,<br>
> > and with increased EU control over its member countries, my opinion is<br>
> > that it is moving more and more towards socialism as the year go by.<br>
> ><br>
> > If we zoom in on sweden, many entrepreneurs have left, so for instance<br>
> > companies such as Ikea, Tetrapak, Skype, Minecraft, Yubikey, Candy crush<br>
> > and more are either based outside sweden (today) or the founders did<br>
> > start their companies in sweden, but decided to sell to american<br>
> > companies.<br>
> ><br>
> > IT is a bit blessed in that you can create huge value with few<br>
> > employees. Looking at traditional companies, Volvo is partly chinese,<br>
> > Absolut vodka was sold and so on.<br>
> ><br>
> > So sweden has been very socialist and paid its price in lowered quality<br>
> > of life and lowered disposable income throughout the years. I think the<br>
> > EU will follow Swedens example and unless people awaken to this reality<br>
> > (which I doubt, since this is a slow, multi generational decline) the EU<br>
> > will be a low cost producer and tourist paradise in the future.<br>
> ><br>
> > Best regards,<br>
> > Daniel<br>
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