<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1;"><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Regarding your notion of taxing junk food, I can immediately identify a problem with that idea. A certain set of ingredients go into a popular sugary party snack that everyone would agree is the poster-child for junk food. The same ingredients in exactly the same proportions, prepared differently, is a popular sugary breakfast cereal. If one confection is taxed, so must the other. But plenty of lower-income families rely on sugary breakfast cereal to feed their children. The rotting teeth and lifelong problems with flab and diabetes come at no extra charge. </div></div></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div>If I were living in poverty I would probably just buy large bags of beans and oats and ferment them. Beans/oats aren’t as cost effective per calorie as flour, but they are still quite cheap. I buy a large bag of soybeans for around $15 that provides breakfast for several months. I think it is completely possible for poor families to acquire healthy food at a good price. It would take some extra preparation and cooking and wouldn’t taste as good as donuts, but I think the health boon would be worth it. I don’t expect many to do this, but the option is there.<br class=""><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On May 18, 2023, at 11:46 PM, spike jones via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" class="">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><meta charset="UTF-8" class=""><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div class=""><div style="border-style: solid none none; border-top-width: 1pt; border-top-color: rgb(225, 225, 225); padding: 3pt 0in 0in;" class=""><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><b class="">From:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:spike@rainier66.com" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" class="">spike@rainier66.com</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><<a href="mailto:spike@rainier66.com" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" class="">spike@rainier66.com</a>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""><br class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">>…Gadersd, the above is an oversimplification. There are insurance structures such as the Health Maintenance Organizations, which do incentivize the doctors to keep their patients healthy…<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">>…So the problem you point out can be dealt with given a for-profit health system and a for-profit insurance structure… spike<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">I might add to that some clarification: some HMOs are closed. They can be selective on who is allowed to join. They are generally expensive, but the health care one gets in return I would rate as excellent. Visiting the doctor every year is annoying, but she is a pleasant person and is very competent. Being on salary paid by the HMO, she isn’t in a big heated rush. My annual visits are seldom less than half an hour with the doctor. Well, OK then, if compared by value, an HMO isn’t expensive, which I suppose supports your original point: if doctors were incentivized to maximize patient health rather than profit, better health outcomes would result. The HMO I belong to would agree with you Gadersd, and I do too: if one can afford an HMO, it is a good deal.<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Regarding your notion of taxing junk food, I can immediately identify a problem with that idea. A certain set of ingredients go into a popular sugary party snack that everyone would agree is the poster-child for junk food. The same ingredients in exactly the same proportions, prepared differently, is a popular sugary breakfast cereal. If one confection is taxed, so must the other. But plenty of lower-income families rely on sugary breakfast cereal to feed their children. The rotting teeth and lifelong problems with flab and diabetes come at no extra charge. <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">If one creates a chart and sorts it by cost per calorie, plain old sugar comes in third, right behind white bread and flour. One doesn’t eat flour, and white bread usually is served with butter, which knocks it down below sugar on the chart.<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><a href="https://efficiencyiseverything.com/calorie-per-dollar-list/" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" class="">https://efficiencyiseverything.com/calorie-per-dollar-list/</a><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">In my economically-strained college days, I practically lived on ramen. Pure sugar is twice the calories per dollar of ramen. Result: plenty of poor families feed their larvae sugary breakfast cereals. <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">We humans have no one to blame. There was no perpetrator. We did this to ourselves.<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">spike<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div></div></div><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">_______________________________________________</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">extropy-chat mailing list</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><a href="http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat</a></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></body></html>