<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:large;color:#000000"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">If you want to discuss the pros and cons of taxes in general and why I</span><br style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">do not think any taxes are good I'll gladly discuss that with you here,</span><br style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">in a separate thread or directly through email. =)</span><br style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">Just to be clear with where I stand on the political spectrum. I</span><br style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">consider myself some kind of libertarian, anarcho-capitalist or just a</span><br style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">plain good, old capitalist or a classic liberal depending on the company</span><br style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">I am in and how much I want to tease other people. ;) daniel</span><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:large;color:#000000"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></span></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-size:small"><font face="comic sans ms, sans-serif">We have at least one member who is opposed to taxes. I asked him how we would pay for police and fire and streets etc. and never got an answer. What is the answer, you think? I am a classic liberal and libertarian. bill w</font></span></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, May 19, 2023 at 5:04 PM efc--- via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><br>
On Fri, 19 May 2023, William Flynn Wallace via extropy-chat wrote:<br>
<br>
> There is no way we can even begin to pay off our debt without raising taxes. The Defense budget is absurd but no one will touch<br>
> that. No one will touch Social Security or Medicare orMedicaid, so where will the money come from? bill w<br>
<br>
Savings? Defaults? Privatizations? Sale of property? Budget cuts?<br>
Secession? Decentralization?<br>
<br>
You say "No one will touch" X and Y as if it would be a natural law, and<br>
I do not think it is.<br>
<br>
However, I feel as a non US person that debating US politics is not the<br>
best use of my time, so I will leave this discussion.<br>
<br>
If you want to discuss the pros and cons of taxes in general and why I<br>
do not think any taxes are good I'll gladly discuss that with you here,<br>
in a separate thread or directly through email. =)<br>
<br>
Just to be clear with where I stand on the political spectrum. I<br>
consider myself some kind of libertarian, anarcho-capitalist or just a<br>
plain good, old capitalist or a classic liberal depending on the company<br>
I am in and how much I want to tease other people. ;)<br>
<br>
Best regards, <br>
Daniel<br>
<br>
<br>
> <br>
> On Fri, May 19, 2023 at 3:47 PM efc--- via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br>
> Hello Bill,<br>
><br>
> Having grown up in a heavily socialist country, and having studied economy, I'm<br>
> afraid I do not share your view that high taxes can be a good thing in any<br>
> way.<br>
><br>
> I do however agree with your opinion, that "he who has the most stuff when<br>
> he dies" is not a sound attitude to life.<br>
><br>
> But given what I've studied and experienced, as well as having met and<br>
> spoken with a lot of people who lived in soviet russia, there is very<br>
> little that can convince me that high taxes are a good thing.<br>
><br>
> Best regards,<br>
> Daniel<br>
> <br>
><br>
> On Fri, 19 May 2023, William Flynn Wallace via extropy-chat wrote:<br>
><br>
> > Thanks, DAniel. All of the strictly socialist countries are poor and have few friends. High taxes can be a good thing<br>
> if you want<br>
> > to help other people live a good and healthy life. We need high taxes here because of our enormous debt (but we won't<br>
> get them - we<br>
> > love bread and circuses and low taxes. We lead the world in storage facilities for people to store their stuff. One of<br>
> the fastest<br>
> > growing businesses. Have to have 'stuff' to outdo your neighbors.<br>
> ><br>
> > 'He who has the most stuff when he dies, wins') bill w <br>
> ><br>
> > On Fri, May 19, 2023 at 1:10 PM efc--- via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br>
> > Hello Bill,<br>
> ><br>
> > It depends on how strict you are with your definitions. The swedish state<br>
> > is among the biggest in the world relative to the rest of the economy, and<br>
> > thus wields enormous market power being one of the biggest actors on the<br>
> > market.<br>
> ><br>
> > In addition to that, they stipulate laws and policies you have to follow<br>
> > in case you want to do business with the government.<br>
> ><br>
> > Last, but not least, for SMB:s the taxes are quite high, which also<br>
> > distorts market forces.<br>
> ><br>
> > So, no, the swedish government does not directly decide what the market<br>
> > should do, but through the methods above, exerts an enormous force on it<br>
> > making it work less efficiently.<br>
> ><br>
> > From the individuals point of view as well, given that fact that for most,<br>
> > more than half of their income goes away in taxes, I'd also argue that it<br>
> > is heavily socialist.<br>
> ><br>
> > Best regards,<br>
> > Daniel<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > On Fri, 19 May 2023, William Flynn Wallace via extropy-chat wrote:<br>
> ><br>
> > > I am not sure that's right, that Sweden is a socialist country. I thought that the government did not run the<br>
> economy,<br>
> > and that's<br>
> > > the defining element in socialism. bill w<br>
> > ><br>
> > > On Fri, May 19, 2023 at 10:03 AM efc--- via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br>
> > ><br>
> > > On Thu, 18 May 2023, Gadersd via extropy-chat wrote:<br>
> > ><br>
> > > >> In fact, I fear that the EU, as always, will stifle this wave of innovation as well and fall behind in<br>
> yet<br>
> > another<br>
> > > area.<br>
> > > ><br>
> > > > Do you think the EU will experience a massive brain drain as people move where AI is more accessible?<br>
> Would<br>
> > this<br>
> > > possiblility incentivize the EU to soften its regulations? I don’t see how an advanced economy can remain<br>
> > advanced and<br>
> > > competitive without embracing new technologies that other nations adopt.<br>
> > > ><br>
> > ><br>
> > > I not only think the EU will experience a massive brain drain, I think<br>
> > > the EU _is_ experiencing a massive brain drain at the moment. It is a<br>
> > > region with the worlds highest taxes and most burdensome administration,<br>
> > > and with increased EU control over its member countries, my opinion is<br>
> > > that it is moving more and more towards socialism as the year go by.<br>
> > ><br>
> > > If we zoom in on sweden, many entrepreneurs have left, so for instance<br>
> > > companies such as Ikea, Tetrapak, Skype, Minecraft, Yubikey, Candy crush<br>
> > > and more are either based outside sweden (today) or the founders did<br>
> > > start their companies in sweden, but decided to sell to american<br>
> > > companies.<br>
> > ><br>
> > > IT is a bit blessed in that you can create huge value with few<br>
> > > employees. Looking at traditional companies, Volvo is partly chinese,<br>
> > > Absolut vodka was sold and so on.<br>
> > ><br>
> > > So sweden has been very socialist and paid its price in lowered quality<br>
> > > of life and lowered disposable income throughout the years. I think the<br>
> > > EU will follow Swedens example and unless people awaken to this reality<br>
> > > (which I doubt, since this is a slow, multi generational decline) the EU<br>
> > > will be a low cost producer and tourist paradise in the future.<br>
> > ><br>
> > > Best regards,<br>
> > > Daniel<br>
> > > _______________________________________________<br>
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