<div dir="auto">Ancient Rome had no police to my knowledge and it had a million people.<div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Jason </div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, May 21, 2023, 4:57 AM efc--- via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Hello Bill,<br>
<br>
On Sat, 20 May 2023, William Flynn Wallace via extropy-chat wrote:<br>
<br>
> Could it happen that going private could result in a country-wide system of four lane highways? Or nuclear missiles? Or aircraft<br>
> carriers? I can see private forces useful in very small situations but not in national interest ones. bill w<br>
<br>
I admit that this is one weakness in my position. Since it has never<br>
been tried at full scale in the modern world, there's no way to know.<br>
However, I'd argue that a benefit of a private world is that the<br>
incentives to create nuclear bombs and aircraft carriers are way<br>
smaller, so I'd speculate that in a private world, no one would be<br>
foolish enough to waste money on that.<br>
<br>
Best regards, <br>
Daniel<br>
<br>
> <br>
> On Sat, May 20, 2023 at 4:10 PM efc--- via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> On Sat, 20 May 2023, Adrian Tymes via extropy-chat wrote:<br>
><br>
> > On Sat, May 20, 2023 at 9:37 AM efc--- via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br>
> > On Sat, 20 May 2023, William Flynn Wallace via extropy-chat wrote:<br>
> > > We have at least one member who is opposed to taxes. I asked him how we would pay for police and fire and<br>
> streets etc.<br>
> > and never got<br>
> > > an answer. What is the answer, you think? I am a classic liberal and libertarian. bill w<br>
> ><br>
> > I think those are services that can be bought from private companies if<br>
> > you need them. Alternatively, they could be bundled into the service<br>
> > package of insurance companies.<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > It's been tried many times, and it doesn't work. Turns out, you can buy bodyguards that way but not police. The<br>
> difference is that<br>
><br>
> Oh, so _you're_ the authority here? ;) I can for sure tell you about<br>
> neigbourhood cooperation to reduce crime, of the old west, old iceland,<br>
> gated communities, security companies, private investigators and<br>
> countless other situations, times and dates where it was tried and it<br>
> did work.<br>
><br>
> So you will have to do way better than that to convince me.<br>
><br>
> > police will - at least, often enough - enforce justice even when it is against the immediate interests of those who pay<br>
> them. Think<br>
> > of part of the service as keeping the funders honest.<br>
><br>
> My experience of state run police is extremely shitty. They don't care<br>
> about anything, they don't perform, and the only thing they do in my<br>
> experience is to harass honest citizens, while arresting and punishing a<br>
> symbolic amount of small crooks. So no thank you, I'd rather buy the<br>
> services of a private security company, because in my life, the track<br>
> record of police is just ridiculous.<br>
><br>
> > Those who think that such anticorruption services are merely nice to have, and not absolutely essential to the<br>
> functioning of any<br>
> > modern nation state, need only look at the Russian armed forces and how their invasion of Ukraine has fared. There are<br>
> many factors<br>
><br>
> Oh, but russia is an example of why the state should not exist. Once a<br>
> bad guy hijacks the public sector, all that power causes immense<br>
> destruction. Much better to have the ultimate decentralization of power<br>
> and a profit motive to keep people in check. Capitalism is engineered in<br>
> such a way that the one who helps the most people makes the most profit.<br>
> No other system cooperates so well with human natures.<br>
><br>
> So yes, ukraine is horrible, and russia to, and guess what's, prime<br>
> example of the state and its corruption and why libertarianism is the<br>
> only way.<br>
><br>
> > Likewise, private fire protection tends to protect your properties but not your neighbors' who aren't paying them -<br>
> which means your<br>
> > property burns down and there's nothing they can do when your neighbor's property burns down, which could have been<br>
> prevented had<br>
> > they stopped it when it was a small fire on your non-paying neighbor's property. Private streets are a textbook<br>
> tragedy of the<br>
><br>
> Contract law and negotiation my friend. Yes, it might not work<br>
> perfectly, but neither does the state. I think the entity of the state<br>
> has a record in killing and deaths caused compared with companies and<br>
> markets.<br>
><br>
> > commons: private streets don't allow for good commerce, while public streets make everyone relatively richer. Hard as<br>
> it can be to<br>
><br>
> This is just a statement and not a proof. I state the opposite and point<br>
> to the fact that I've done plenty of business in private locations and<br>
> it worked out beautifully.<br>
><br>
> > This isn't theory. This is hard historical fact. There is no "the true form hasn't been tried yet". This is what<br>
> happens when it<br>
> > is tried, every time, enough to show that it is the true form. It has been done to the death of millions.<br>
><br>
> I disagree. Some times it has worked, and sometimes not. Sadly the<br>
> experiments never ran to conclusion since a maffia with monopoly on<br>
> violence ended it called "the state". But, I'll give you this much, the<br>
> state is a powerful entity and crowds out all competition to the<br>
> detriment of everyone.<br>
><br>
> Fortunately in modern society, there are cracks in the system where<br>
> people at an indiviual level can escape a lot of ills of the state.<br>
><br>
> Best regards,<br>
> Daniel<br>
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</blockquote></div>