<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:large;color:#000000"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"> I think the simplest </span><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">explanation is that ultimately, there are no morals. They are created when </span><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">several self-conscious, human beings meet reality.</span><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:large;color:#000000"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></span></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-size:small"><font face="comic sans ms, sans-serif">This is about as vague as you can get. Reality is that we cannot live alone effectively. So when someone in a group harms another, the whole group suffers - loss of warrior; loss of berry picker; loss of spear chunker, and so on. What hurts an individual hurts the group. Matthew Ridley has a whole book on the subject of how morality forms. All of his books are excellent, like The Rational Optimist. bill w</font></span></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Jun 19, 2023 at 9:43 AM efc--- via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Hello Brent,<br>
<br>
On Sat, 17 Jun 2023, Brent Allsop via extropy-chat wrote:<br>
<br>
> On Fri, Jun 16, 2023 at 12:25 PM efc--- via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br>
> On Thu, 15 Jun 2023, Gadersd via extropy-chat wrote:<br>
> >> ask about why we want to live a long time.<br>
> ><br>
> > That seems an odd thing to have to explain. Life is good, no?<br>
><br>
> I always find these immortality discussions very strange. For me, it is<br>
> not about immortality per se, but about choice. Being able to decide<br>
> yourself when you had enough.<br>
> <br>
> Being about choice is a good point. But if that is the only point, are you saying that morality is relative, or that there is no<br>
> morality, right or wrong, good or bad... choice?<br>
<br>
Good question! On the surface, I am all about freedom and free informed<br>
consent and very libertarian.<br>
<br>
On a deeper level, which I find more interesting, I think the simplest<br>
explanation that ultimately, there are no morals. They are created when<br>
several self-conscious, human beings meet reality.<br>
<br>
I do not have a hard position on this, so I welcome a vigorous debate<br>
here to inspire me! =)<br>
<br>
> Seems to me choosing to end things is necessarily a bad/wrong/mistaken... choice.<br>
<br>
Why? It is your life, and given the circumstances, why should you not be<br>
allowed to choose to end it if you so want and are of a sound and<br>
healthy mind?<br>
<br>
> Seems to me, survival is always, necessarily, better than not surviving. That is why evolution must progress in all sufficiently<br>
> complex worlds?<br>
<br>
I can imagine many situations where I would probably choose to end my<br>
life. So I do not think, for me, that survival trumps everything,<br>
everytime.<br>
<br>
Best regards, <br>
Daniel<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
extropy-chat mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat</a><br>
</blockquote></div>