<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:large;color:#000000"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:large;color:#000000">The easy way out of the dilemma: the couple donates their sperm and ova to the banks. So they can have lots of children and not have to raise them. bill w</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Jul 20, 2023 at 7:14 AM efc--- via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">This is a very interesting subject.<br>
<br>
I read a story in one of the local swedish mainstream newspapers where <br>
anonymous couples where complaining that society expects people to enjoy <br>
having and raising children, and that they severely regretted having <br>
children.<br>
<br>
The reason where the responsibility, the lack of autonomy, restrictions, <br>
cost etc. All the couples said that officially they all expressed intense <br>
happiness since that is what society expects, but in private they where <br>
all unhappy with the decision of having children.<br>
<br>
Another angle is that I think women are more biologically driven to enjoy <br>
having and raising children than men. I personally for instance, find most <br>
children annoying but for my significant other, there is no higher dream <br>
and expression of self worth and identity. Couple this with, in sweden at <br>
least, a tendency to more and more singles, and you there have a dampening <br>
factor as well.<br>
<br>
Last, but not least, you have all the other reasons, religion, financial <br>
security, custom etc.<br>
<br>
So many reasons, and I am convinced that a rapidly changing society, where <br>
more people will lead better and better lives, where goods will cost less <br>
and less, will naturally lead to a weakening of the drive to having <br>
children.<br>
<br>
Best regards,<br>
Daniel<br>
<br>
<br>
On Wed, 19 Jul 2023, Adrian Tymes via extropy-chat wrote:<br>
<br>
> Some people - not everyone by any extent, but a significant enough fraction of people - find it fun to have and raise children. In<br>
> this scenario, perhaps only they would create further generations, but they are enough that further generations would continue to be<br>
> created.<br>
> <br>
> On Wed, Jul 19, 2023 at 5:08 AM efc--- via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br>
> Hello everyone,<br>
><br>
> I think this raises interesting questions of ethics and the "purpose" of<br>
> mankind.<br>
><br>
> If we agree that happiness is the the ultimate goal, and not the survival<br>
> of the species, then why not stop having children if we can get along fine<br>
> with robots and AI:s?<br>
><br>
> Perhaps, assuming life extension or "immortality", there will be a final<br>
> generation?<br>
><br>
> Best regards,<br>
> Daniel<br>
> <br>
><br>
> On Tue, 18 Jul 2023, spike jones via extropy-chat wrote:<br>
><br>
> ><br>
> > I posted this right before the ExI list barfed. Posting again.<br>
> ><br>
> > spike<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > -----Original Message-----<br>
> > From: <a href="mailto:spike@rainier66.com" target="_blank">spike@rainier66.com</a> <<a href="mailto:spike@rainier66.com" target="_blank">spike@rainier66.com</a>><br>
> > Sent: Saturday, 15 July, 2023 4:14 PM<br>
> > To: 'ExI chat list' <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>><br>
> > Cc: 'BillK' <<a href="mailto:pharos@gmail.com" target="_blank">pharos@gmail.com</a>>; <a href="mailto:spike@rainier66.com" target="_blank">spike@rainier66.com</a><br>
> > Subject: RE: [ExI] How fun could doom intelligent life to a blissful extinction<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > -----Original Message-----<br>
> > From: extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat-bounces@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank">extropy-chat-bounces@lists.extropy.org</a>> On Behalf Of BillK via extropy-chat<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> >> ...If the pursuit of happiness is the primary explanation for our decreasing fertility rate, this tendency might be<br>
> true not just for humans but for all intelligent life — providing a possible explanation for the Fermi Paradox.<br>
> ><br>
> > <<a href="https://bigthink.com/the-future/pursuit-happiness-doom-intelligent-life-blissful-extinction/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://bigthink.com/the-future/pursuit-happiness-doom-intelligent-life-blissful-extinction/</a>><br>
> > -------------------<br>
> > ...<br>
> ><br>
> > BillK<br>
> ><br>
> > _______________________________________________<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > BillK, this is really as plausible an explanation for the Fermi Paradox as any I have heard, and perhaps the most<br>
> pleasant one. Having children is a way to experience happiness, but it is a risky bet indeed. If we find sufficient<br>
> alternative routes to happiness, the notion of having children becomes ever less compelling. If we find alternative<br>
> routes to the pleasures of copulation and all those cool endorphins we get from love, that whole risky activity isn't<br>
> worth the effort either. Result: not enough young people to run the world we already built for them.<br>
> ><br>
> > But of course nuclear war could wipe out most of what we have done, creating the need for rebuilders and family people,<br>
> so we might save our species in that horrifying way: radiation therapy. Or the singularity could kill us, but I don't<br>
> think it would kill people who have never seen a computer. They might survive to build it all back.<br>
> ><br>
> > spike<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > _______________________________________________<br>
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</blockquote></div>