<div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><br><div>A "reconciliation of all desires of all conscious beings"</div><div><br></div><div>Yes. To me, that is what morals are all about. The only evil being censoring or frustrating what anyone may want. Censoring a Censor being a double negative, so essentially the same as unconditional love and value for all.</div><div><br></div><div>That is the goal of Canonizer.com. To find out, concisely and quantitatively, what everyone wants, and find creative ways to get it all for everyone. And THAT, by definition, is consensus.<br></div><div>knowing that will enable the creation of a single source of moral truth for everyone.</div><div>Where liberals use canonizer algorithms that only count liberals, and vice versa for conservatives, so priorities get resourted, for them. Where everyone focuses on what everyone agrees on in the super camps of consensus tree, (pushing the disagreeable stuff down to lower level supporting sub camps) and so on.</div><div><br></div><div>Rather than focusing on all the snarky bleating and tweeting that polarizes everyone today, since you can track when people jump camps, you can find out what arguments and evidence convert the most people. That becomes the focus. If your target audience is getting conservatives on board, you use conservative experts, conservative language, and conservative arguments, and include what it is they want with what you want, as that is what will work to get them on board.</div><div><br></div><div>Thanks for this reference.<br></div><div><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Nov 26, 2023 at 2:30 PM Jason Resch via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto"><div><br><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Nov 26, 2023, 3:42 PM efc--- via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">I think that thought has occupied quite a few philosopher. I think the <br>
fashionable thing in philosophy is the "platinum rule". But I could be <br>
wrong.<br></blockquote></div></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">I think this is an inter and novel take:</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><a href="https://philarchive.org/rec/ARNMAW" target="_blank">https://philarchive.org/rec/ARNMAW</a><br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Zuboff argues that the most correct action is what one would do if one has perfect and complete knowledge, and this knowledge would contain the knowledge of what it's like to be all the affected individual beings points of view, hence morality would then be conceived as a reconciliation of all desires of all conscious beings.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Jason </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
Best regards,<br>
Daniel<br>
<br>
<br>
On Sun, 26 Nov 2023, William Flynn Wallace wrote:<br>
<br>
> <br>
> I'm not a fan of the concept "justice" without the machinery underneath<br>
> defined. Otherwise it is just an empty term. So that's why I'm wondering<br>
> about collapsing some of them into the others. daniel<br>
> This sounds like a multiple regression type problem. Why not let some AI parse this one? Maybe everything on the list will collapse<br>
> into the Golden Rule. bill w<br>
> <br>
> Best regards,<br>
> Daniel<br>
> <br>
> On Sun, Nov 26, 2023 at 12:53 PM <efc@swisscows.email> wrote:<br>
> Another interesting question is if some of those values can be collapsed<br>
> into others.<br>
><br>
> I'm not a fan of the concept "justice" without the machinery underneath<br>
> defined. Otherwise it is just an empty term. So that's why I'm wondering<br>
> about collapsing some of them into the others.<br>
><br>
> Best regards,<br>
> Daniel<br>
> <br>
><br>
> On Sun, 26 Nov 2023, William Flynn Wallace via extropy-chat wrote:<br>
><br>
> > Saving this! THis is great - thanks Stuart.<br>
> ><br>
> > Commentary by S. Freud:<br>
> ><br>
> > The law to love your enemies is the most impossible thing to follow in any religion. <br>
> ><br>
> > bill w<br>
> ><br>
> > On Sun, Nov 26, 2023 at 12:13 PM Jason Resch via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br>
> > This is wonderful. Thank you for sharing it.<br>
> > Jason<br>
> ><br>
> > On Sun, Nov 26, 2023 at 12:41 PM Stuart LaForge via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br>
> > I asked ChatGPT what set of moral values lay at the intersection of the<br>
> > sets of all values espoused by the major religions of the world with<br>
> > explicit references to their sacred texts. This was its answer and its<br>
> > answer gave me hope that AI can help end the culture wars. So here are<br>
> > the Five Moral Imperatives shared by the world's major religions:<br>
> ><br>
> > The Golden Rule and Reciprocity:<br>
> ><br>
> > Christianity: "So in everything, do to others what you would have them<br>
> > do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets." (Matthew 7:12,<br>
> > New Testament)<br>
> > Judaism: "What is hateful to you, do not do to your fellow man. This is<br>
> > the law: all the rest is commentary." (Talmud, Shabbat 31a)<br>
> > Islam: "None of you [truly] believes until he wishes for his brother<br>
> > what he wishes for himself." (Hadith of Prophet Muhammad, Bukhari and<br>
> > Muslim)<br>
> > Hinduism: "This is the sum of duty: do not do to others what would cause<br>
> > pain if done to you." (Mahabharata 5:1517)<br>
> > Buddhism: "Hurt not others in ways that you yourself would find<br>
> > hurtful." (Udana-Varga 5.18)<br>
> > Sikhism: "As you deem yourself, deem others as well; only then you shall<br>
> > become a partner in heaven." (Guru Granth Sahib, Ang 1299)<br>
> ><br>
> > Compassion and Love:<br>
> ><br>
> > Christianity: "A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have<br>
> > loved you, so you must love one another." (John 13:34, New Testament)<br>
> > Judaism: "Love your neighbor as yourself." (Leviticus 19:18, Torah)<br>
> > Islam: "And lower to them the wing of humility out of mercy and say, 'My<br>
> > Lord, have mercy upon them as they brought me up [when I was] small.'"<br>
> > (Quran 17:24)<br>
> > Hinduism: "The whole world is full of God's glory; serve all beings as<br>
> > God." (Ramayana, Yuddha Kanda 115.33)<br>
> > Buddhism: "Radiate boundless love towards the entire world." (Buddha,<br>
> > Sutta Nipata 149-150)<br>
> > Sikhism: "One who recognizes the One Lord among all beings does not talk<br>
> > of ego." (Guru Granth Sahib, Ang 99)<br>
> ><br>
> > Justice and Fairness:<br>
> ><br>
> > Christianity: "Do not pervert justice; do not show partiality to the<br>
> > poor or favoritism to the great, but judge your neighbor fairly."<br>
> > (Leviticus 19:15, Torah)<br>
> > Judaism: "Justice, justice shall you pursue." (Deuteronomy 16:20, Torah)<br>
> > Islam: "O you who have believed, be persistently standing firm in<br>
> > justice, witnesses for Allah, even if it be against yourselves or<br>
> > parents and relatives." (Quran 4:135)<br>
> > Hinduism: "Justice, when it is corrupted, destroys; but when it is<br>
> > upheld, it upholds the world." (Mahabharata 12.131.6)<br>
> > Buddhism: "Conquer the angry man by love; conquer the ill-natured man by<br>
> > goodness; conquer the miser with generosity; conquer the liar with<br>
> > truth." (Dhammapada 223)<br>
> > Sikhism: "Justice is the mint, courage the brave coin. When the coin of<br>
> > justice is made, it is tested by courage." (Guru Granth Sahib, Ang 1088)<br>
> ><br>
> > Charity and Generosity:<br>
> ><br>
> > Christianity: "Sell your possessions and give to the poor. Provide<br>
> > purses for yourselves that will not wear out, a treasure in heaven that<br>
> > will never fail." (Luke 12:33, New Testament)<br>
> > Judaism: "Do not be hard-hearted or tight-fisted toward your poor<br>
> > brother." (Deuteronomy 15:7, Torah)<br>
> > Islam: "The example of those who spend their wealth in the Way of Allah<br>
> > is like that of a grain that sprouts seven ears, and in every ear there<br>
> > are a hundred grains." (Quran 2:261)<br>
> > Hinduism: "The hands that help are holier than the lips that pray."<br>
> > (Yajur Veda)<br>
> > Buddhism: "If beings knew, as I know, the result of giving and sharing,<br>
> > they would not eat without having given." (Itivuttaka 26)<br>
> > Sikhism: "Serve the True Guru, and you shall obtain the fruits of your<br>
> > heart's desires." (Guru Granth Sahib, Ang 1299)<br>
> ><br>
> > Truth and Honesty:<br>
> ><br>
> > Christianity: "Therefore each of you must put off falsehood and speak<br>
> > truthfully to your neighbor, for we are all members of one body."<br>
> > (Ephesians 4:25, New Testament)<br>
> > Judaism: "You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor."<br>
> > (Exodus 20:16, Torah)<br>
> > Islam: "O you who have believed, fear Allah and be with those who are<br>
> > true." (Quran 9:119)<br>
> > Hinduism: "The truth which satisfies the heart is true." (Mahabharata<br>
> > 5:124.9)<br>
> > Buddhism: "In speech that is gentle, truthful, and beneficial, one<br>
> > should address others." (Anguttara Nikaya 10.176)<br>
> > Sikhism: "Truth is the trade of the Guru's children; practice truth in<br>
> > your mind." (Guru Granth Sahib, Ang 471)<br>
> ><br>
> > As a human being, I am deeply moved by this and hopeful for a bright<br>
> > future where men and machines explore the galaxy together.<br>
> ><br>
> > Stuart LaForge<br>
> > _______________________________________________<br>
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> ><br>
> > _______________________________________________<br>
> > extropy-chat mailing list<br>
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> ><br>
> ><br>
> <br>
> <br>
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