<div dir="ltr">There's a combination of concepts I wasn't expecting to encounter this morning: the capacity, not /merely/ to perform human uploads at all, but to perform them with verve, gusto, and soul.</div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Dec 18, 2023 at 7:46 AM William Flynn Wallace via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:"comic sans ms",sans-serif;font-size:large;color:rgb(0,0,0)">There was a violinist named Eugene Fodor. His technique was astounding. He could play anything at any speed you wanted. But he had no soul. He played Paganini's works at his concerts because they were difficult and impressive. He was just mechanical. </div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:"comic sans ms",sans-serif;font-size:large;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:"comic sans ms",sans-serif;font-size:large;color:rgb(0,0,0)">He could play anything but not anything well. He got addicted to cocaine and eventually suicided. He knew what he was, and what he wasn't. Expert? No one would have claimed that he was a great violinist. I asked a world class violinist if what he lacked could be taught. She said, in essence, no way. You have a soul for music or you don't. bill w</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Dec 17, 2023 at 9:52 PM Mike Dougherty via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto"><div class="gmail_quote" dir="auto"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Dec 17, 2023, 11:52 AM Adrian Tymes via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto"><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">To be fair: fusion has been accomplished (just not commercially viable yet), there are ways to mitigate cancer in at least some cases, and ants are kept out of many kitchens.</div></div></blockquote></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">"To be fair"</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">So the fusion that has been accomplished makes which person the expert? The one who planned the device? The one who machined it to five-nines precision? The project manager who coordinated everyone else? Surely the one signing the check is the expert. Oh, I'm being facetious. Of course I am.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Maybe our definition of "expert" differ between "someone who has done a thing" and "someone who knows how a thing is done." Was Neil Armstrong the only expert to walk on the moon before Aldrin also did the thing? I am of a mind to grant many other NASA folk the title of 'expert' on lunar landing despite the fact they have never done so. There must be a few people who were on duty at mission control for more than one lunar landing project implementation - would that make them double-expert compared to Armstrong or Aldrin? I know, the geniuses on this list will tell me how wrong I am because the type (you know there's a type) are so smart they don't need to listen. I profess to be neither smart nor correct. </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"> My point was not to claim there are no experts in the endeavor to keep ants out of the kitchen. That was an absurd rhetorical device. It might have made a reader laugh if he or she were familiar with the pattern of casual conversation. I sometimes marvel at the voluminous prose expounded on this list, but it's rarely in a voice that I prefer to consume. It may be the same with what and how I write. Hmm.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Anyway, i guess we can have no experts in mind uploading until someone has been uploaded and their post-biological identity demands legal protection of selfhood with respect to autonomy and reasonable safety from the computing hardware being switched off. Uploaded mice running robot bodies through mazes they trained on as mere flesh... not good enough to call the any of those scientists "expert"</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Is there any other field that we might agree has "experts" in a domain of knowledge despite themselves having not achieved the ultimate example of their profession/craft/art/etc?</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Ex: any pianist who flawlessy performs every note of the Minute Waltz in under sixty seconds can claim the "expert" title. The one who knows how to shave three seconds from their personal best of 1m2s is just a wannabe/poseur.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">PS. I know the Minute Waltz isn't intended to be played in 60 seconds. Hyperbole is usually meant to amuse. :)</div><div class="gmail_quote" dir="auto"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
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