<div dir="ltr"><br><div>Yes, Utah seems to be the Multi Level Marketing capital of the world.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Jan 20, 2025 at 11:42 AM Keith Henson via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">My experiences with the scientology cult make me think there is a big<br>
genetic component to being sucked into a cult.<br>
<br>
I don't have survey data but my impression is that people with Mormon<br>
genetic background are considerably overrepresented.<br>
<br>
The scientologists also get sucked into every MLM scheme that comes along.<br>
<br>
Best wishes,<br>
<br>
Keith<br>
<br>
On Mon, Jan 20, 2025 at 9:58 AM efc--- via extropy-chat<br>
<<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> Thank you very much for sharing. I can't say I have contributed much to<br>
> the "positive" side. I remember that we tend to dive into what you can<br>
> know, how you know it, what it might imply etc.<br>
><br>
> As long as you feel you are in a better place, I'm happy for you! I'm also<br>
> happy hearing about your experience because it restores hope for me, that<br>
> change can be achieved by people talking with each other.<br>
><br>
> It might not happen fast, it might not happen at all, but for some it does<br>
> happen. This is very inspirational.<br>
><br>
> On Mon, 20 Jan 2025, Brent Allsop via extropy-chat wrote:<br>
><br>
> ><br>
> > I resemble that "seeds of doubt" comment. I met some brilliant philosophers in Japan on my mission, who were willing to talk to us<br>
> > in business suits. It made me realize their teachings, in many ways, were far better than what I was pushing. By the end of my<br>
> > mission my "testimony" in a lot of what I was teaching was gone.<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > On Mon, Jan 20, 2025 at 9:32 AM efc--- via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > On Mon, 20 Jan 2025, Kelly Anderson via extropy-chat wrote:<br>
> ><br>
> > > As a former missionary, I can tell you that you do have a point here.<br>
> > > Although there were a few agnostics in my mission who were there just<br>
> > > because of social pressure. It almost worked on me, I lasted until I<br>
> > > was 45 as an active Mormon. Eventually, life just hit me over the head<br>
> > > with a 4x4 and I figured things out.<br>
> > ><br>
> > > But... on my mission, converts were definitely what we were going for.<br>
> > > I myself converted around 72 people. I am not especially proud of<br>
> ><br>
> > I enjoy talking to the very polite, business suit clad guys when I<br>
> > meet them. Sadly, after we get into to deep philosophical waters, they<br>
> > lose interest and move on. ;) I often wonder if I managed to sow some<br>
> > seeds of doubt in them during our conversations. =)<br>
> ><br>
> > > that, and I'm sure there aren't 10% of them that are still active. But<br>
> > > I am not ashamed of it either, because I was just as much a victim of<br>
> > > the brainwashing as they were. Not believing in free will now gives me<br>
> > > a pretty solid "out" for what I did. And, I actually feel good about<br>
> > > the one Jehovah's Witness that I converted. Mormonism is definitely<br>
> > > better than that craziness. Kids who die from not being given the<br>
> > > choice to have blood transfusions because of their parents are<br>
> > > considered martyrs. That's really messed up. Baptism for the dead<br>
> > > doesn't hurt anyone, by comparison.<br>
> > ><br>
> > > -Kelly<br>
> > ><br>
> > > On Sun, Dec 29, 2024 at 10:21 AM Darin Sunley via extropy-chat<br>
> > > <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br>
> > >><br>
> > >> The LDS missionary program is only secondarily about recruiting new members from the general population. Really, the<br>
> > people running the program don't care if the nice young people in the shirts and ties and nametags ever convince anyone<br>
> > of anything.<br>
> > >><br>
> > >> The program is designed from the ground up to cement the lifelong emotional loyalty of the missionaries themselves,<br>
> > who are barely trained children spending two years living away from home in a commune under a complete media blackout.<br>
> > >><br>
> > >> The carrot is that, after they finish their stint as a missionary (which they themselves paid tens of thousands of<br>
> > dollars for the privilege), they are on a track that, if they pursue it, can take them into senior leadership positions<br>
> > within the church..<br>
> > >><br>
> > >> They are barely equipped to even present the elevator pitch for their own theology, much less grapple critically with<br>
> > anyone else's, because That Is Not The Point.<br>
> > >><br>
> > >> On Sun, Dec 29, 2024 at 10:11 AM Ben Zaiboc via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br>
> > >>><br>
> > >>> On 27/12/2024 14:45, <a href="mailto:efc@disroot.org" target="_blank">efc@disroot.org</a> wrote:<br>
> > >>> > The mormons often seem more afraid of me, than I of them, when we<br>
> > >>> > start to discuss philosophy and they soon tire of the conversation. 😉<br>
> > >>><br>
> > >>> I've had a similar experience with Jehovah's Witnesses. It's odd that<br>
> > >>> the god squad seem most reluctant to talk to people who seem to actually<br>
> > >>> know something about religion! It's like mathematicians being leery of<br>
> > >>> anyone who shows any knowledge of maths.<br>
> > >>><br>
> > >>> This may be my cynicism showing, but I suspect that it's because they<br>
> > >>> are more interested in compliance with their particular viewpoint than<br>
> > >>> understanding. If you want to understand things, you're obviously not<br>
> > >>> good convert material!<br>
> > >>><br>
> > >>> I think it was Luther who said that reason is the enemy of faith. Seems<br>
> > >>> he was right.<br>
> > >>><br>
> > >>> --<br>
> > >>> Ben<br>
> > >>><br>
> > >>> _______________________________________________<br>
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</blockquote></div>