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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 02/09/2025 20:32, Adrian Tymes
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:mailman.14.1756841578.17630.extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">Not disagreeing with the rest of what you said, but this -
specifically, the target of exposing minors to pornography - has been
studied, and while not all of the claims (by any stretch) were found
true, a nonzero amount did hold up. I asked an AI to summarize:
---
The commonly cited harms of exposing minors to pornography fall into
several categories, though the research quality varies significantly
across different types of effects:
Commonly Cited Harms
Sexual Development and Behavior:
Unrealistic expectations about sex, bodies, and sexual performance
Earlier initiation of sexual activity
Increased likelihood of engaging in risky sexual behaviors
Normalization of aggressive or violent sexual acts
Confusion about consent and healthy sexual relationships
Psychological and Emotional Effects:
Increased rates of depression and anxiety
Body image issues and self-esteem problems
Potential for developing compulsive sexual behaviors
Difficulty forming healthy intimate relationships
Social and Relational Impact:
Objectification of others, particularly women
Changed attitudes toward gender roles and relationships
Potential impact on academic performance and social functioning
Research Quality and Limitations
The evidence base has significant methodological challenges:
Stronger Evidence Areas:
Correlational studies consistently show associations between
pornography exposure and earlier sexual initiation, more sexual
partners, and riskier sexual behaviors
Research on attitudes shows fairly robust links to more accepting
views of sexual aggression and objectification
Weaker Evidence Areas:
Causation vs. correlation: Most studies are cross-sectional, making it
difficult to determine whether pornography exposure causes problems or
whether teens with existing issues are more likely to seek out
pornography
Long-term outcomes: Limited longitudinal research following
individuals over time
Dosage effects: Little research on whether different amounts or types
of exposure have different impacts
Research Challenges:
Ethical constraints limit experimental research with minors
Self-reporting biases in surveys about sensitive topics
Rapidly changing technology outpaces research
Difficulty controlling for other variables (family environment, peer
influences, etc.)
The scientific consensus generally supports concern about pornography
exposure in minors, but researchers emphasize that more rigorous
longitudinal studies are needed to better understand causal
relationships and identify which young people may be most vulnerable
to negative effects.</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
Yes, well.<br>
"Commonly-cited harms" means precisely nothing, except maybe that
some people want there to be harms. Nevertheless, let's just accept
that, and do a thought-experiment:<br>
<p class="western" style="line-height: 100%; margin-bottom: 0cm">If
we stigmatised ball games to the same extent we
stigmatise sex, then all these things could also be said about
ball
games, or sports in general (ask the AI to summarise the <span
style="white-space: pre-wrap">commonly cited harms of exposing minors to videogames, see if the results are much different).</span></p>
<p class="western" style="line-height: 100%; margin-bottom: 0cm">The
problem is not sex and pornography, it's the way we react to it
(which boils down to how we have been educated to react to it).</p>
<p class="western" style="line-height: 100%; margin-bottom: 0cm">Suppose
that the abrahamic religions had decided that sports, instead of
sex,
was evil and had to be controlled by making people feel guilty
about
it:</p>
<p class="western" style="line-height: 100%; margin-bottom: 0cm"><br>
</p>
<p class="western" style="line-height: 100%; margin-bottom: 0cm">“The
commonly cited harms of exposing minors to <strike>pornography</strike>
depictions of sport fall into</p>
<p class="western" style="line-height: 100%; margin-bottom: 0cm">several
categories, though the research quality varies significantly</p>
<p class="western" style="line-height: 100%; margin-bottom: 0cm">across
different types of effects:</p>
<p class="western" style="line-height: 100%; margin-bottom: 0cm"><br>
</p>
<p class="western" style="line-height: 100%; margin-bottom: 0cm">Commonly
Cited Harms</p>
<p class="western" style="line-height: 100%; margin-bottom: 0cm"><br>
</p>
<p class="western" style="line-height: 100%; margin-bottom: 0cm">Sporting
Development and Behaviour:</p>
<p class="western" style="line-height: 100%; margin-bottom: 0cm">Unrealistic
expectations about sports, bodies, and sporting performance</p>
<p class="western" style="line-height: 100%; margin-bottom: 0cm">Earlier
initiation of sporting activity</p>
<p class="western" style="line-height: 100%; margin-bottom: 0cm">Increased
likelihood of engaging in risky sporting behaviours</p>
<p class="western" style="line-height: 100%; margin-bottom: 0cm">Normalization
of aggressive or violent sports acts</p>
<p class="western" style="line-height: 100%; margin-bottom: 0cm">Confusion
about social norms around sports and healthy sporting
relationships</p>
<p class="western" style="line-height: 100%; margin-bottom: 0cm"><br>
</p>
<p class="western" style="line-height: 100%; margin-bottom: 0cm">Psychological
and Emotional Effects:</p>
<p class="western" style="line-height: 100%; margin-bottom: 0cm">Increased
rates of depression and anxiety</p>
<p class="western" style="line-height: 100%; margin-bottom: 0cm">Body
image issues and self-esteem problems</p>
<p class="western" style="line-height: 100%; margin-bottom: 0cm">Potential
for developing compulsive sports-related behaviours</p>
<p class="western" style="line-height: 100%; margin-bottom: 0cm">Difficulty
forming healthy sporting relationships</p>
<p class="western" style="line-height: 100%; margin-bottom: 0cm"><br>
</p>
<p class="western" style="line-height: 100%; margin-bottom: 0cm">Social
and Relational Impact:</p>
<p class="western" style="line-height: 100%; margin-bottom: 0cm">Objectification
of others, particularly other players</p>
<p class="western" style="line-height: 100%; margin-bottom: 0cm">Changed
attitudes toward sporting roles and relationships</p>
<p class="western" style="line-height: 100%; margin-bottom: 0cm">Potential
impact on academic performance and social functioning</p>
<p class="western" style="line-height: 100%; margin-bottom: 0cm"><br>
</p>
<p class="western" style="line-height: 100%; margin-bottom: 0cm">Research
Quality and Limitations</p>
<p class="western" style="line-height: 100%; margin-bottom: 0cm">The
evidence base has significant methodological challenges:</p>
<p class="western" style="line-height: 100%; margin-bottom: 0cm"><br>
</p>
<p class="western" style="line-height: 100%; margin-bottom: 0cm">Stronger
Evidence Areas:</p>
<p class="western" style="line-height: 100%; margin-bottom: 0cm">Correlational
studies consistently show associations between</p>
<p class="western" style="line-height: 100%; margin-bottom: 0cm">sports
exposure and earlier adoptions of sports activities, more sporting</p>
<p class="western" style="line-height: 100%; margin-bottom: 0cm">partners,
and riskier sports behaviors</p>
<p class="western" style="line-height: 100%; margin-bottom: 0cm">Research
on attitudes shows fairly robust links to more accepting</p>
<p class="western" style="line-height: 100%; margin-bottom: 0cm">views
of aggression in sport</p>
<p class="western" style="line-height: 100%; margin-bottom: 0cm"><br>
</p>
<p class="western" style="line-height: 100%; margin-bottom: 0cm">Weaker
Evidence Areas:</p>
<p class="western" style="line-height: 100%; margin-bottom: 0cm">Causation
vs. correlation: Most studies are cross-sectional, making it</p>
<p class="western" style="line-height: 100%; margin-bottom: 0cm">difficult
to determine whether sports exposure causes problems or</p>
<p class="western" style="line-height: 100%; margin-bottom: 0cm">whether
teens with existing issues are more likely to seek out</p>
<p class="western" style="line-height: 100%; margin-bottom: 0cm">sports-related
material</p>
<p class="western" style="line-height: 100%; margin-bottom: 0cm">Long-term
outcomes: Limited longitudinal research following</p>
<p class="western" style="line-height: 100%; margin-bottom: 0cm">individuals
over time</p>
<p class="western" style="line-height: 100%; margin-bottom: 0cm">Dosage
effects: Little research on whether different amounts or types</p>
<p class="western" style="line-height: 100%; margin-bottom: 0cm">of
exposure have different impacts</p>
<p class="western" style="line-height: 100%; margin-bottom: 0cm"><br>
</p>
<p class="western" style="line-height: 100%; margin-bottom: 0cm">Research
Challenges:</p>
<p class="western" style="line-height: 100%; margin-bottom: 0cm">Ethical
constraints limit experimental research with minors</p>
<p class="western" style="line-height: 100%; margin-bottom: 0cm">Self-reporting
biases in surveys about sensitive topics</p>
<p class="western" style="line-height: 100%; margin-bottom: 0cm">Rapidly
changing technology outpaces research</p>
<p class="western" style="line-height: 100%; margin-bottom: 0cm">Difficulty
controlling for other variables (family environment, peer</p>
<p class="western" style="line-height: 100%; margin-bottom: 0cm">influences,
etc.)</p>
<p class="western" style="line-height: 100%; margin-bottom: 0cm"><br>
</p>
<p class="western" style="line-height: 100%; margin-bottom: 0cm">The
scientific consensus generally supports concern about sports</p>
<p class="western" style="line-height: 100%; margin-bottom: 0cm">exposure
in minors, but researchers emphasize that more rigorous</p>
<p class="western" style="line-height: 100%; margin-bottom: 0cm">longitudinal
studies are needed to better understand causal</p>
<p class="western" style="line-height: 100%; margin-bottom: 0cm">relationships
and identify which young people may be most vulnerable</p>
<p class="western" style="line-height: 100%; margin-bottom: 0cm">to
negative effects”</p>
<p class="western" style="line-height: 100%; margin-bottom: 0cm"><br>
</p>
<p class="western" style="line-height: 100%; margin-bottom: 0cm">And,
of course, we would see extensive censorship of media featuring
sports, a rating system, pixellation of cricket and baseball bats,
balls etc. (as well as concern amongst the ‘guardians of morality’
about any object that looks vaguely bat-or-ball-shaped)</p>
<p class="western" style="line-height: 100%; margin-bottom: 0cm">The
problem is not sex, descriptions or depictions of sex, the problem
is
our reactions to these things. Learned reactions. Sex can be
risky,
of course. So can sports. Early exposure to sex/sport can affect
people’s lives, leading them to different behaviours than if they
hadn’t had this exposure. The same is true of music. And politics.
And a host of other things that are seen as perfectly normal and
natural.</p>
<p class="western" style="line-height: 100%; margin-bottom: 0cm">The
answer is education, not restrictions. If you want someone to be a
confident sportsman and well-balanced human being, you don’t
prevent them from handling (or even seeing!) baseball bats, balls
and
protective gear, you don’t ‘protect’ them from sports
programmes on the TV or the internet. If you want young boxers to
keep safe, you don’t prevent them from accessing information about
boxing, protective headgear, footage of people being repeatedly
bashed about
the head and the resultant brain trauma etc., until they turn a
certain arbitrary, evenly-applied age.</p>
<p class="western" style="line-height: 100%; margin-bottom: 0cm">When
I say education, I don’t mean lectures, I mean access to the
relevant material, information and discussions, without
restrictions,
without age limits and without moralising. Nobody thinks this is a
bad idea with regard to sports. Why should sex be any different?</p>
<p class="western" style="line-height: 100%; margin-bottom: 0cm">We
are actively damaging society with all this stupid censorship. We
all need to
grow up.</p>
<p class="western" style="line-height: 100%; margin-bottom: 0cm">--
</p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Ben</pre>
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