<div dir="ltr"><br><div>good point.</div><div><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Oct 13, 2025 at 2:56 PM Tara Maya via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto"><div dir="ltr"></div><div dir="ltr">Suppose you duplicated your own mind a thousand times and kept it working together. It would obviously still be you, but I suspect you would be different sheerly because of the difference in mind expansion.</div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Tara Maya</div><div dir="ltr"><br><blockquote type="cite">On Oct 13, 2025, at 13:34, Jason Resch via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br><br></blockquote></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="auto"><div><br><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Oct 13, 2025, 12:30 PM Ben Zaiboc via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><u></u>
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<div>On 13/10/2025 15:53, Jason Resch wrote:<br>
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<pre><div dir="auto">I wonder how much of oneself is preserved in a merger to become super intelligent, when acting super intelligently is acting in a manner that the super intelligence judges to be optimal.</div><div dir="auto">
</div><div dir="auto">So what about when the most intelligent action is in conflict with the original person's whims and quirks which made them a unique human?</div><div dir="auto">
</div><div dir="auto">If they whims take precedence, then this entity is no longer acting super intelligently. If the whims are ignored, then the entity is no longer acting like the human.</div><div dir="auto">
</div><div dir="auto">Think of merging an ant mind and a human mind. The ant part of the mind may say: I have an urge to forage let's do that. The human mind puts the wnt mind to rest: we have grocery stores and a full fridge, there's no need to forage. And we would find, the ant component contributes very little to what the merged mind decides to do.</div><div dir="auto">
</div><div dir="auto">Should we expect it to be any different if a human mind merged with a super intelligent mind?</div></pre>
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I think we'd need to define exactly what 'merge' means first. What
would merge with what, and how?<br></div></blockquote></div></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">I think my point applies to any augmentation path taking an ordinary human to superhuman intelligence.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div>
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I don't see how an ant mind and a human mind could merge in any
meaningful way. If it was at all possible, I think it would just
mean that the human mind added a few subconscious routines that it
didn't have before, to do with foraging and whatever else ants do.<br></div></blockquote></div></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">And in the same way, I would expect a human mind to get lost within the vastly greater super intelligent mind.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div>
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The question of "how much of oneself is preserved" also needs some
definitions before it's meaningful.<br>
<br>
I don't think the statement "<span style="white-space:pre-wrap">If the whims are ignored, then the entity is no longer acting like the human" is </span>really
correct. It assumes that humans don't change their minds when
presented with extra information, and this scenario basically
represents changing your mind when presented with extra information.
Realising that you were mistaken about something, and changing your
attitudes doesn't constitute no longer being yourself.<br></div></blockquote></div></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">If we define intelligence as the probability of knowing the correct answer on any given question, then as intelligence increases, minds converge on having the same correct answers (at least in the more trivial questions humans tend to debate and disagree on). We would then find very little to mark the individuality or personality of the original humans ideas, opinions, thoughts, etc. when we examine the updated opinions of the human mind uplifted to super intelligence.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div>
<br>
There is one aspect that might be more relevant, though. We are
modular creatures, in that our attitudes can be contradictory at
different times, when different mental modules are 'in charge'. This
is why so many people find it difficult to lose weight, or quit
smoking, when they know perfectly well how to do it. It's quite
possible that a human who becomes superintelligent by some means
would want to dispense with this (assuming they didn't decide that
it was a useful feature, and wanted to keep it). If that was the
case, they would no longer 'be human'. But, you could say that would
be true of any superintelligence, no matter what. You might even say
that about someone with extraordinary willpower.<br>
<br>
So basically, all we can say is that superintelligences won't be
human, as we currently understand the word. You can look at it in at
least two ways: Become superintelligent and lose your humanity, or:
Become superintelligent and lose your previous limitations.
Different people would make different choices.<br>
<br>
The last question, "<span style="white-space:pre-wrap">Should we expect it to be any different if a human mind merged with a super intelligent mind?" is different to the first one, "</span><span style="white-space:pre-wrap">I wonder how much of oneself is preserved in a merger to become super intelligent?".
I would probably be amenable to being merged with something else in order to become superintelligent (an AI system for example), for the same reason that I count myself as a transhumanist. I probably wouldn't be keen on being merged with an existing superintelligence, as I have no interest (currently, at least) in becoming a minor module in someone else's mind.
Apart from anything else, I'd be highly suspicious of it for wanting to do that. Of course, it would probably be capable of talking me into it!</span></div></blockquote></div></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">I understand your hesitancy for the latter, but alas I think both end up at roughly the same place.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Jason </div></div>
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