<!DOCTYPE html>
<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
</head>
<body>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">We're getting mired in confusing
terminology, I think, and this is getting far too long. Let's zoom
out and look at the essentials.<br>
<br>
On 08/11/2025 00:20, Jason Resch wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:mailman.49.1762561216.18922.extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">
<div dir="auto">
<div class="gmail_quote gmail_quote_container">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>
On Fri, Nov 7, 2025, 5:19 PM Ben Zaiboc via extropy-chat
<
<a target="_blank" rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener"
href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>>
wrote:</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:mailman.49.1762561216.18922.extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">
<div dir="auto">
<div class="gmail_quote gmail_quote_container">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>So who knows? Maybe an omniscient being would see that
a healthy chicken's eggs would make a crucial difference
in the brain development of a person who eventually
invents or discovers something fantastic that benefits all
mankind forever after, and deem this law morally good.<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">If you think an omniscient mind is better
positioned than any lesser mind to make morally correct
decisions, then you already tacitly accept the utility of using
a "perfect grasp" to define morally optimal actions.</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
Yeah, that was sarcasm. You're not supposed to take it seriously.<br>
<br>
What I accept is the truth of the trivial assertion that IF we knew
more than we do, we'd be able to make better decisions. If this is
what Zuboff's idea boils down to, then I change my mind, the man's a
genius (that was more sarcasm), he has discovered something we all
knew all along, the obvious idea that more knowledge about a thing
can enable you to make better decisions about it.<br>
<br>
What has that got to do with morality, though? How is this idea,
that everybody already knows, supposed to be a basis for a moral
system?<br>
<br>
Having better knowledge enables more /effective/ decisions, but that
says nothing about whether they are 'good' or 'bad' decisions. It
doesn't enable someone to define what 'good' means, for them.<br>
<br>
"If you think an omniscient mind is better positioned than any
lesser mind to make morally correct decisions..." Losing the
'omniscient', and replacing it with 'more knowledgeable', which puts
things on a realistic footing, I'd have to say No, I don't think
that. Is the morality of a less knowledgeable or less intelligent
person less valid than that of a more knowledgeable or more
intelligent one? I'd think (or certainly hope, anyway!) that the
answer to this is obvious. If your answer is "yes", then you're
already halfway down the slippery slope that leads to most of, if
not all, the worst atrocities we are capable of. It's basically
saying that some people are intrinsically inferior to others,
because of their ability to know things. I don't think that was
really the intention of whoever coined the phrase 'knowledge is
power'.<br>
<br>
More realistic moral foundations, in my opinion, can be found here:<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://moralfoundations.org/">https://moralfoundations.org/</a><br>
<br>
Notice that 'knowledge' is not mentioned in any of these.<br>
<br>
I think the important thing, going back to the distant original
topic of this discussion, is to realise where morality (as actually
practiced) comes from. It comes from our developmental past. AIs are
a future unfolding of that, and I reckon that, rather than
speculating on their morality springing de-novo from their
intelligence, it might be useful to consider it being a consequence
of where they come from (humanity) and how it might develop, just as
ours has developed over time.
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Ben</pre>
<br>
</body>
</html>