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--></style></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple style='word-wrap:break-word'><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> extropy-chat <extropy-chat-bounces@lists.extropy.org> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Tara Maya via extropy-chat<br><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, 8 November, 2025 8:04 AM<br><b>To:</b> ExI chat list <extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org><br><b>Cc:</b> Tara Maya <tara@taramayastales.com><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [ExI] Gender-Neutral Side Note<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>>…Oddly I have never verified whether I have XX chromosomes myself, but my obstetrician assures me I do have a womb as she has tugged four infants out of it. The chances seem high…<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>I would consider even one infant as sufficient evidence.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>>...</span>I don’t object to he/him as neutral, I merely observe we are unlikely to resurrect it in normal speech patterns as ‘they’ is becoming ubiquitous…<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Ja. I thought I would get over it, but they is still bothering me.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>…<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>>…However, in Monad, the draft of a science fiction story set one billion years in the future, the hero is androgynous, having the ability to switch gender at will….<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>I am seeing something I am finding most disconcerting. I work with young people a lot because of my volunteer work: food bank, scouts, science Olympiad and competition math. The high schoolers surprise me with their attitudes: they seem nearly indifferent to copulation. It is so different from when I was their age half a century ago. Eeeeeeverything was about getting laid, everything. Now, it’s meh, whatevs. Maybe, maybe not.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>…Too many teens think we have no future!<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>I noticed that too. I might comment on it later.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>spike<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal> It’s told in first person but he usually use he, while another of his species in the story usually use she. In their case, they are objectively both sexes, like certain unicellular organisms, and (like those microbes) when they meet, they fight and the winner manifests as male and the loser manifests as female and carries the baby. So despite being an androgynous species, the laws of biology are still sexist, because, alas, evolution doesn’t care about our feelings. I designed the species based on a real (although much simpler) species not on a political ideal. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>In a side note, the idea for the story arose from a thought experiment: what if humans (or species that looked and acted much like us) still exist even after a billion years of evolution? This may seem unlikely but consider that we still have prokaryotes after more than a billion years of evolution even though we also have other lifeforms as well…. So humans have radiated into millions (even billions) of species but look like familiar bipedal apes (mostly). <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>As long as I’m shamelessly plugging my books, let me mention some already published…. I also write near future “bright” (not dystopian) science fiction aimed at young women. I’m not saying the members here wouldn’t enjoy the books, but the stories are similar to a contemporary young adult romance with a science fiction twist. (These books are much tamer than my hard sf, which is more niche.) I wanted to appeal to readers who would not necessarily seek out science fiction.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>They all involve the concept of living on a seastead. I think it’s such a cool idea and I wanted to get young people exited about the future again. Too many teens think we have no future! The series is The Seastead Adventures and you can find them on my site Misque Press.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>I really wish I could have attended the recent seastead convention in Prague! Did anyone here attend it?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Tara Maya<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>On Nov 7, 2025, at 07:51, spike jones via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat-bounces@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat-bounces@lists.extropy.org</a>> <b>On Behalf Of </b>John Clark via extropy-chat<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, 7 November, 2025 5:05 AM<br><b>To:</b> ExI chat list <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>><br><b>Cc:</b> John Clark <<a href="mailto:johnkclark@gmail.com">johnkclark@gmail.com</a>>; Ben Zaiboc <<a href="mailto:ben@zaiboc.net">ben@zaiboc.net</a>><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [ExI] Gender-Neutral Side Note</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Thu, Nov 6, 2025 at 2:06<span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'> </span>PM Ben Zaiboc via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal><i><span style='font-size:13.5pt'>We can re-instate words like 'chairman' instead of 'chairperson' (or<br>even 'chair', which I've heard a lot recently. A chair is something you<br>sit on, for christ's sake!)</span>,</i><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:13.5pt'>>…And a chair<u>man</u></span></b><span class=gmaildefault><b><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'> is a man who is sitting on a chair, a bum on the subway for instance…. </span></b></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span class=gmaildefault><b><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'> </span></b></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span class=gmaildefault><b><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>What if the subway bum has XX chromosomes? </span></b></span><b><span style='font-size:13.5pt'> </span></b><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span class=gmaildefault><i><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif'>>…</span></i></span><b><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'>Another word that I think should be retired is <span class=gmaildefault>"</span>Indian<span class=gmaildefault>"</span> <span class=gmaildefault>when</span> referring to Native Americans<span class=gmaildefault>, it's an insult to Indians and an insult to Native Americans and it's just dumb. We only got that word because Columbus was so stupid that when he landed in the Bahamas he thought he was in India. …John k Clark</span></span></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span class=gmaildefault><b><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'> </span></b></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span class=gmaildefault><b><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'> </span></b></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span class=gmaildefault><b><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'> </span></b></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span class=gmaildefault><b><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'>So we are told. However… that region where Columbus landed, the Caribbean Sea was called the West Indies at the time, and still is sometimes referred to that way:</span></b></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span class=gmaildefault><b><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'> </span></b></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span class=gmaildefault><b><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Indies">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Indies</a></span></b></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span class=gmaildefault><b><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'> </span></b></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span class=gmaildefault><b><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'>Columbus had no way of knowing about the Pacific ocean, but he was a sailor, so he knew approximately the circumference of the globe. What if there had been no Pacific, but was land all the way across there, with people from the West Indies to the East Indies. For all Columbus knew or anyone in Europe knew, there was a big-ass continent of Indie, the east side of which one could reach by sailing the Atlantic and Indian Oceans.</span></b></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span class=gmaildefault><b><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'> </span></b></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span class=gmaildefault><b><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'>If Indie was content spanning or filling in the Pacific basin and spanning Asia, the Pacific and the Americas, then the people Columbus encountered would be the inhabitants of Indie, which would make them Indians.</span></b></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span class=gmaildefault><b><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'> </span></b></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span class=gmaildefault><b><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'>In that scenario, Columbus wasn’t stupid. He was the NASA of his times. Furthermore… the people he called Indians likely didn’t know about the Pacific Ocean either. How would they know? They didn’t sail much. They might have thought one could walk west indefinitely. If you go back a few thousand years, they would be right: you could walk across the Bering Strait, which was frozen. They wouldn’t know they were not Indians.</span></b></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span class=gmaildefault><b><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'> </span></b></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span class=gmaildefault><b><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'>Indie would be one hell of a continent, ja? I don’t think Columbus was stupid. Sailing west across the Atlantic was a cool achievement for his time.</span></b></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span class=gmaildefault><b><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'> </span></b></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span class=gmaildefault><b><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'>spike</span></b></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span class=gmaildefault><b><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'> </span></b></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span class=gmaildefault><b><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'> </span></b></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span class=gmaildefault><b><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'> </span></b></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span class=gmaildefault><b><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'> </span></b></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span class=gmaildefault><b><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'> </span></b></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span class=gmaildefault><b><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'> </span></b></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span class=gmaildefault><b><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'> </span></b></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span class=gmaildefault><b><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'> </span></b></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span class=gmaildefault><b><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'> </span></b></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span class=gmaildefault><b><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'> </span></b></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span class=gmaildefault><b><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'> </span></b></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span class=gmaildefault><b><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'> </span></b></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span class=gmaildefault><b><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'> </span></b></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span class=gmaildefault><b><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'> </span></b></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span class=gmaildefault><b><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'> </span></b></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span class=gmaildefault><b><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'> </span></b></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div></div><p class=MsoNormal>_______________________________________________<br>extropy-chat mailing list<br><a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a><br><a href="http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat">http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat</a><o:p></o:p></p></div></blockquote></div></body></html>