<html class="apple-mail-supports-explicit-dark-mode"><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div dir="ltr"></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Here is what I would rather see: instead of taking away ownership and independence of cars, self driving cars are enable a whole new hybrid of mobile home / RV / home-car that enables people to sleep in cars and work in cars and out their cars so they don’t need to invest in overpriced properties. </div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">They don’t lose their freedom and they can respond quickly to changes in the market rapidly. That would make the housing market less sticky. </div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">People and families could also share a self driving car more easily because it could drive itself between their homes. A car could be purchased by or for a senior on behalf of several adult families who normally work from home but don’t want to be without transportation. </div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">I would like to see more people own cars not less, but maybe with more creative arrangements. I certainly don’t think it’s a good idea to be at the mercy of a few monopolies that can be denied to you if you have a low social credit score or that feed your conversation and itinerary to their advertisers and possibly to governments.</div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Thinking to the future collision of technologies, how about 3D printing your own self-driving car in your factory-garage?</div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Tara Maya</div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br><blockquote type="cite">On Nov 15, 2025, at 06:38, spike jones via extropy-chat <extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org> wrote:<br><br></blockquote></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 15 (filtered medium)"><style>@font-face { font-family: "Cambria Math"; }
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div.WordSection1 { page: WordSection1; }</style><div class="WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> extropy-chat <extropy-chat-bounces@lists.extropy.org> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Adrian Tymes via extropy-chat<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [ExI] self driving cars<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal">On Sat, Nov 15, 2025, 12:43<span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span>AM spike jones via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in"><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">This will help solve homelessness. Reason: if many people choose to not own cars, it frees up a lot of garage space which can be converted to apartments.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></blockquote></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">>…The garage space is already part of the building, so this seems unlikely. More logical would be to say that less parking is needed, which allows new construction or redevelopment to have more housing space….But...see existing zoning laws and parking minimums: this is a legislative battle that goes back decades…<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">The housing expansionists have the upper hand currently in California. It is way easier to get permits now to convert your garage to living space or install a factory-build microhouse in your back yard. Neither costs much, and the potential rent would make the ROI enormous. They would have a pay-back time of two to four years, depending on where it is.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">>…Regardless of the physical need or lack thereof, buildings are often legally required to give space for a car infrastructure…<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Adrian, I am coming from the POV of the extended single family suburb, which is where I have always resided.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">>…Besides, even if you add slightly more housing, the demand keeps growing so homelessness continues to be an issue…<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Ja, and it doesn’t solve the train problem necessarily: local commuter trains have become rolling homeless shelters/ Likewise, the homeless could take up residence in the Waymo cars. I think solutions to that problem will evolve. Example: ammonia injection. The Waymo recognizes that it has someone on board who is not paying and not getting out. The inside of that car starts to smell like Windex, harmless but an eye irritant. If the offender exits, the car rolls down its windows and drives to another location to air out, arriving perfectly without a trace of residue (ammonia is good that way.) Otherwise, the smell gets stronger and stronger, compelling exit. If that doesn’t work, the Waymo car summons the local authorities to remove the corpse or otherwise inert passenger.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Note I am not claiming this scheme solves or cures the growing homelessness problem. It only treats it, by supplying additional housing for those who can pay, and preventing the growing population of the indigent from parasitizing mass transit.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">spike<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></div><span>_______________________________________________</span><br><span>extropy-chat mailing list</span><br><span>extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</span><br><span>http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat</span><br></div></blockquote></body></html>