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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 17/11/2025 15:44, John K Clark
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:mailman.116.1763394254.18922.extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span
style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">On Sat, Nov
15, 2025 at 3:55 AM Ben Zaiboc via extropy-chat <<a
href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>>
wrote:</span></div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_quote gmail_quote_container">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr"><br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><i><font
face="georgia, serif" size="4"> <span
class="gmail_default" style="">> </span>Google is
simply too big and powerful,<span class="gmail_default"
style=""> </span></font></i></blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><font size="4" face="tahoma, sans-serif"><b>The world is
big and powerful<span class="gmail_default" style=""> so
it's inevitable that there are going to be big and
powerful things in it. If not corporations then what do
you want those big and powerful things to be, lots of
high technology corporations or one huge nation state?
As for me, I'm an unrepentant capitalist.</span></b></font></div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
("<font size="4" face="tahoma, sans-serif"><span
class="gmail_default" style="">lots of high technology
corporations or one huge nation state?</span></font>" :
'Excluded Middle'.)<br>
<br>
<br>
I'm not saying that Google is just one among many big and powerful
corporations, and at least huge nation states are plural, not
singular. If you really don't like the nation-state you are born in,
you can at least try to move to another one that you like better.
There's precious little you can do if you want to use your phone as
more than just a phone, and don't like Google's (or Apple's)
policies. Yes, you can side-load APKs, and even develop your own
software if you have the savvy, but guess what? Google were trying
to close down that avenue, until they were forced to backtrack:<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/google/google-backpedals-on-new-android-developer-registration-rules/">https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/google/google-backpedals-on-new-android-developer-registration-rules/</a><br>
<br>
You pay through the nose for a smartphone, probably pay even more in
monthly subscriptions, then find that you're not allowed to write
your own software for it? Or even install software that someone else
has written that isn't approved of by Google? Don't you think that's
totally outrageous? Imagine that situation with your PC. Imagine not
being able to even knock together a little useful script for
something, because the people who wrote your OS want total control
of everything that runs on it? (not to mention spying on everything
you do with it).<br>
<br>
This is the kind of thing that happens when any corporation gets too
big and powerful. They abuse their power, if they think they can get
away with it. If any proof is needed that Google are 'too big and
powerful', their Developer Registration plan is it. This time, they
miscalculated, and were wrong about getting away with it. What about
next time?<br>
<br>
This sort of thing happens all the time (I'm not just talking about
Google now), and needs to be strenuously resisted and routed around.<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:mailman.116.1763394254.18922.extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">
<div class="gmail_quote gmail_quote_container">
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</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><font
size="4" face="georgia, serif"><i><span
class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">> </span>and
seems to be getting moreso all the time. </i></font></blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><font size="4" face="tahoma, sans-serif"><b>Yes<span
class="gmail_default" style="">,</span> that's because
the world is getting larger and more powerful, and that
growth rate is about to go into hyperdrive.</b></font></div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
That seems to be the best hope, that nobody, including Google as
well as the governments of authoritarian states, will be able to
keep up, and will become irelevant.<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:mailman.116.1763394254.18922.extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">
<div class="gmail_quote gmail_quote_container">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr"><br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><font
size="4" style=""><span class="gmail_default"
style="font-style:italic;font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">> </span><i>I'm
fairly sure that I'm the only person I know in real life
that doesn't have one</i><span class="gmail_default"
style="font-style:italic;font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"> </span><span
class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">[a Google
account] </span></font></blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><font size="4" face="tahoma, sans-serif"><b>I wouldn't be
surprised.<span class="gmail_default" style=""> </span> </b></font></div>
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr"><br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><font
size="4" face="tahoma, sans-serif"><i><span
class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">> </span>Contrast
this with the browsers that we use, or the operating
system/s we favour. </i></font></blockquote>
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr"><font
face="tahoma, sans-serif" size="4"><b>I assume you have a
phone, if so <span class="gmail_default" style="">its</span>
operating system<span class="gmail_default" style="">
almost certainly came from Apple or Google, and your web
browser probably came from Apple, Google or Microsoft,
mine sure does and I thank them for it.</span></b></font></div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
My phone use is minimal (one of those rare people who use their
phone just as a phone, not a general computing device), and I don't
and wouldn't use a browser from any of those companies.<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:mailman.116.1763394254.18922.extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">
<div class="gmail_quote gmail_quote_container">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr"><br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><i><font
size="4" face="georgia, serif"><span class="gmail_default"
style="">> </span>When I said "I'd hate to lose this
list", I wasn't referring to Google shutting the list
down, I was referring to the fact that if it moved to
Google, I wouldn't be able to take part in it any more.
The same reason I sometimes read, but never post to, the
Extropolis list.</font><br>
</i></blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><font size="4" face="tahoma, sans-serif"><b>I'm sincerely<span
class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"> </span>sorry
to hear that, I'd really<span class="gmail_default"
style=""> </span>like to <span class="gmail_default"
style="">get</span> your input.<span
class="gmail_default" style=""> But what negative
consequences do you envision happening if you were to
make such a post? </span> </b></font></div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
As far as I can see, I can't post to the Extropolis list without a
Google account. This may be wrong, as per John Klos' comment, but
even so, I wouldn't make much use of it if I could post. I try to
avoid even replying to gmail addresses, because I reckon Google has
way too much information already, and I know that they harvest
information from every source they possibly can, including gmail
messages, as well as people's wifi signals, from the Google Street
View cars (at least until the German data protection people raised a
stink about it and they had to stop). Whan a company behaves like
that, is it any surprise that I don't trust them?<br>
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.business-humanrights.org/en/latest-news/google-admits-collecting-wi-fi-data-through-street-view-cars/">https://www.business-humanrights.org/en/latest-news/google-admits-collecting-wi-fi-data-through-street-view-cars/</a><br>
<br>
I find it a bit odd that they say it was accidental, and the data
was never used, then add that "other companies, including Skyhook
and Microsoft, already scan wifi networks and gather information in
this way" (with the implicit "so why shouldn't we?").<br>
<br>
The negative consequences of dealing with Google in general, even in
a peripheral way, are that they harvest even more data about me,
which, as a privacy-valuing person, I greatly object to. Yes, I have
a lot to hide, and No, I haven't done anything wrong.<br>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Ben</pre>
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