<div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Nov 17, 2025 at 9:59 AM John Klos via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr"><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><i><font face="georgia, serif" size="4"><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">> </span>Google is now trying to force people to "prove" their age by<br>uploading government ID, add that Google already makes it exceedingly<br>difficult to sign up for an account without providing personal<span class="gmail_default" style=""> </span>information,</font></i></blockquote><div><br></div><div><font size="4" face="tahoma, sans-serif"><b>That is not Google's fault<span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">!</span><span class="gmail_default" style=""> That is the fault of Republican-controlled states which demand proof of age if you want to do certain things on the Internet. </span> <span class="gmail_default" style="">If </span>Google didn't demand that it would be illegal.<span class="gmail_default" style=""> </span></b></font></div><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr"><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><font size="4" face="tahoma, sans-serif">
><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">></span> <b>The world is big and powerful so it's inevitable that there are going to<span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"> </span>be big and powerful things in it. If not corporations then what do you<span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"> </span>want those big and powerful things to be, lots of high technology<span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"> </span>corporations or one huge nation state? As for me, I'm an unrepentant<span class="gmail_default" style=""> </span>capitalist.</b></font></blockquote>
<br><font face="georgia, serif" size="4"><i>
<span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">> </span>We don't need to choose one of the "big and powerful" things. We can exist<span class="gmail_default" style=""> </span>outside of that, at least in the context of this discussion.<br></i></font></blockquote><div><br></div><div><font size="4" face="tahoma, sans-serif"><b>I have no idea what you mean by that.<span class="gmail_default" style=""> </span></b></font></div><div><font size="4" face="tahoma, sans-serif"><b><br></b></font></div><div><font size="4" face="tahoma, sans-serif"><b><span class="gmail_default" style="">John K Clark</span> </b></font></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
> > and seems to be getting moreso all the time. <br>
> <br>
> Yes, that's because the world is getting larger and more powerful, and <br>
> that growth rate is about to go into hyperdrive.<br>
<br>
This has nothing to do with what we're talking about.<br>
<br>
> > I'm fairly sure that I'm the only person I know in real life<br>
> >that doesn't have one [a Google account]<br>
> <br>
> I wouldn't be surprised. <br>
<br>
That was a joke. Agreeing with it doesn't feel like one. Many, many people <br>
don't have Google accounts.<br>
<br>
> > Contrast this with the browsers that we use, or the operating<br>
> >system/s we favour.<br>
> <br>
> I assume you have a phone, if so its operating system almost certainly <br>
> came from Apple or Google, and your web browser probably came from <br>
> Apple, Google or Microsoft, mine sure does and I thank them for it.<br>
<br>
It's fine that you're happy to simply do what everyone else does, but if <br>
that's the case, why discuss transhumanism? If it's not coming straight <br>
from Google or being sold by Amazon, what interests you about it? Why <br>
would you step outside your comfort zone for some things, and at the same <br>
time advocate for pledging fealty otherwise?<br>
<br>
> > When I said "I'd hate to lose this list", I wasn't referring to<br>
> > Google shutting the list down, I was referring to the fact that<br>
> > if it moved to Google, I wouldn't be able to take part in it any<br>
> > more. The same reason I sometimes read, but never post to, the<br>
> > Extropolis list.<br>
> <br>
> I'm sincerely sorry to hear that, I'd really like to get your input. But <br>
> what negative consequences do you envision happening if you were to make <br>
> such a post?<br>
<br>
I think your picture of the world is too simplistic. Does everyone have a <br>
Windows computer with Chrome? If they have an older computer, can it be <br>
upgraded enough to run a modern enough Chrome to continue to use Google?<br>
<br>
People can join Google Groups mailing lists without having a Google <br>
account, but Google doesn't do a good job of telling people that. If you <br>
visit a Google Groups page and try to do anything aside from look at <br>
content, you're immediately prompted to log in.<br>
<br>
There's a huge difference between something being possible and something <br>
being straightforward for the average person, and Google here makes this <br>
possible but decidedly NOT straightforward for the average person.<br>
<br>
Add that Google is now trying to force people to "prove" their age by <br>
uploading government ID, add that Google already makes it exceedingly <br>
difficult to sign up for an account without providing personal <br>
information, and add that it's incredibly difficult to sign up without <br>
using a cell phone number, and we can see why this excludes countless <br>
people who don't have fancy, newer machines, people who care about <br>
privacy, and/or people who simply don't like or want to use or can't use <br>
cell numbers.<br>
<br>
So I think you're assuming that the concern is "negative consequences" <br>
that're "envision(ed) happening", when it could be any of a number of <br>
other reasons.<br>
<br>
John_______________________________________________<br>
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</blockquote></div></div>