<div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="auto"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Feb 15, 2026, 1:07 PM Ben Zaiboc via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px"></div><span></span><pre cols="72"><div><blockquote type="cite"><div>On 10/02/2026 13:51, John K Clark wrote:</div><blockquote type="cite">
<pre><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><font face="georgia, serif">Ben Zaiboc via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br> <span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">> </span><font size="4"><i>Does Colour 'really' exist, in a Platonic sense?</i></font></font></blockquote><div><br></div><div><font size="4" face="tahoma, sans-serif"><b>Yes, because if there's one thing that we <span>(or at least I) can</span> be absolutely certain <span>of</span> <span>its</span> that<span> </span>subjectivity exists<span></span>,<span> </span>and<span> the experience of color is part of that. Thus, <u>IF</u> there is a fundamental reality (and not an infinity of layers) <u>THEN</u> color is part of it. </span> </b></font></div></pre></blockquote><div style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><br><span style="font-size:18pt;line-height:normal">Ok, I undertand what you're saying, but that isn't what I mean by 'in a Platonic sense'.<br><br>If colour-experiencing conscious minds didn't exist, then colour wouldn't be a part of reality.</span></div></blockquote></div></pre></blockquote><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><pre cols="72"><div><blockquote type="cite"><div style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><span style="font-size:18pt;line-height:normal">The Platonic view is that it still would, that the existence of colour in some 'ideal realm' is independent of the existence, and experience of, minds.<br>(which raises some interesting and uncomfortable issues for Platonism!)<br></span></div></blockquote></div></pre></blockquote><div><br></div><div>To advocate a bit for Platonism, I am wondering how you would class the existence of mathematical truths and objects. For example, assuming we agree that zero has infinite factors, that pi has infinite digits, and that there are infinite primes, and assuming we agree that these infinite factors, infinite digits, and infinite primes do not all exist in the physical universe, then where do they exist? They can't exist in human minds (as our minds can't hold infinite things) and we already agreed they don't exist physically. So we require some third manner of existence for such things as these. For this, I think "Platonic existence" is the perfect substitute for when neither physical, nor mental realms will do.</div><div><br></div><div>Jason</div></div></div>
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