<div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div><span class="gmail_default" style="font-size:x-small"> </span>On Sat, Mar 21, 2026 at 6:08 AM Simon Quellen Field AB6NY <<a href="mailto:simon.field@gmail.com">simon.field@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div></div><div class="gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">You are proposing using renewable energy electricity during the day to make syngas to burn at night.</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div style="font-size:x-small" class="gmail_default">Right, waste contains a relatively small amount of fossil carbon, where the natural gas the syngas replaces is 100% fossil.</div><div style="font-size:x-small" class="gmail_default"><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">To replace that renewable electricity, California would use natural gas electricity.</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><div style="font-size:x-small" class="gmail_default">Syngas would only be made from solar that was in excess of demand. There is some of that now and considerably more expected in the future.<br></div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">This is a huge waste, as natural gas uses far less electricity to acquire than syngas, and is at least 40% more efficient by your numbers.</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div style="font-size:x-small" class="gmail_default">I don't track that, numbers please.</div><div style="font-size:x-small" class="gmail_default"><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">Also, instead of burying the carbon, you are putting it into the atmosphere.</div></div></blockquote><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div id="m_-3907507535206533953DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2"><div style="font-size:x-small" class="gmail_default">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div id="m_-3907507535206533953DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2"><div style="font-size:x-small" class="gmail_default">I
wonder how long the carbon stays in the ground before leaking out as
CO2? I was surprised to find that a landfill in the US is on the top 5
methane sources.<br></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div> I have to acknowledge that "do nothing" is a lot less trouble.<br></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div style="font-size:x-small" class="gmail_default">Keith</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div id="m_-3907507535206533953DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2"><div style="font-size:x-small" class="gmail_default"></div><br><table style="border-top:1px solid rgb(211,212,222)"><tbody><tr><td style="width:55px;padding-top:13px"><a href="https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail" target="_blank"><img src="https://s-install.avcdn.net/ipm/preview/icons/icon-envelope-tick-round-orange-animated-no-repeat-v1.gif" alt="" style="width: 46px; height: 29px;" width="46" height="29"></a></td><td style="width:470px;padding-top:12px;color:rgb(65,66,78);font-size:13px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;line-height:18px">Virus-free.<a href="https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail" style="color:rgb(68,83,234)" target="_blank">www.avast.com</a></td></tr></tbody></table><a href="#m_-3907507535206533953_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2" width="1" height="1"></a></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Mar 21, 2026 at 2:23 AM Keith Henson <<a href="mailto:hkeithhenson@gmail.com" target="_blank">hkeithhenson@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">I read through the website, and the only mention they have for scale is 300 MWh.<br>
<br>
That's not very much; California fires up something in the range of 30<br>
GW of natural gas turbines when the sun goes down. I am proposing to<br>
make syngas from renewable energy and waste to replace natural gas for<br>
this use. Or we could make about twice as much jet fuel from LA trash<br>
as LAX uses. The fully built-out system is huge. LA could soak up 20<br>
GW for 8 hours during the day and make enough syngas to produce 20 GW<br>
for 12 hours.<br>
<br>
Keith<br>
<br>
Best wishes,<br>
<br>
Keith<br>
<br>
On Sat, Mar 21, 2026 at 1:27 AM <<a href="mailto:vid.beldavs@fotonika-lv.eu" target="_blank">vid.beldavs@fotonika-lv.eu</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> What I find fascinating about organic redux flow batteries (ORFB) is that costs can be expected to decline as implementation is scaled. Use widely available materials. Minimal use of critical materials. A early pilot was implemented in Austria in 2023. <a href="https://www.cmblu.com/en/press-and-media/first-solidflow-energy-storage-system-delivered/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.cmblu.com/en/press-and-media/first-solidflow-energy-storage-system-delivered/</a>. The concept appears ideal for decentralized, micro-grid power, for wind farms, solar farms and data centers in combination with super capacitors for instant response to power fluctuations.<br>
> Partners are welcome to join us in developing innovative solutions. Vid Beldavs<br>
><br>
> -----Original Message-----<br>
> From: <a href="mailto:power-satellite-economics@googlegroups.com" target="_blank">power-satellite-economics@googlegroups.com</a> <<a href="mailto:power-satellite-economics@googlegroups.com" target="_blank">power-satellite-economics@googlegroups.com</a>> On Behalf Of Keith Henson<br>
> Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2026 6:53 AM<br>
> To: Michael Shiloh <<a href="mailto:michaelshiloh1010@gmail.com" target="_blank">michaelshiloh1010@gmail.com</a>><br>
> Cc: The Hackers Conference - members-only discussion list <<a href="mailto:hackers-l@lists.hackersconference.org" target="_blank">hackers-l@lists.hackersconference.org</a>>; ExI chat list <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>>; <a href="mailto:extropolis@googlegroups.com" target="_blank">extropolis@googlegroups.com</a>; Inventor's Lunch <<a href="mailto:inventors-lunch@googlegroups.com" target="_blank">inventors-lunch@googlegroups.com</a>>; Power Satellite Economics <<a href="mailto:power-satellite-economics@googlegroups.com" target="_blank">power-satellite-economics@googlegroups.com</a>><br>
> Subject: Re: [hackers-l] LinkedIn weirdness<br>
><br>
> On Fri, Mar 20, 2026 at 8:49 PM Michael Shiloh <<a href="mailto:michaelshiloh1010@gmail.com" target="_blank">michaelshiloh1010@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> ><br>
> > This is what All Power Labs in Berkeley is doing<br>
><br>
> I looked, and they are a biochar project, not making syngas out of mixed waste.<br>
><br>
> Keith<br>
> > On Fri, 20 Mar 2026, 02:57 Keith Henson via Hackers Discussion, <<a href="mailto:hackers-l@lists.hackersconference.org" target="_blank">hackers-l@lists.hackersconference.org</a>> wrote:<br>
> >><br>
> >> I posted this on LinkedIn.<br>
> >><br>
> >> The biggest problem with renewable energy is large scale, long term storage.<br>
> >><br>
> >> "A Victorian gas-making technology might solve this problem. About<br>
> >> 1860, they made gas by burning coke till it got white hot, then<br>
> >> shutting off the air and blowing steam through the mass of coke. This<br>
> >> made CO and hydrogen, which was distributed as town gas.<br>
> >><br>
> >> "For carbon, we can use municipal waste, which is 40% carbon. For<br>
> >> heat, renewable electricity from wind or solar. 4 MWh will vaporize a<br>
> >> ton of carbon in steam, making about 11 MWh of syngas. The syngas can<br>
> >> be stored and then burned in a combined cycle turbine, giving over 6<br>
> >> MWh of electricity.<br>
> >><br>
> >> "This scales to a rather large size. LA makes 100,000 tons per day,<br>
> >> of which 40% is carbon. Run 1/3rd of the day, the gasifiers could<br>
> >> absorb<br>
> >> 20 GW, producing 240 GWh of syngas. This sounds like a lot until you<br>
> >> realize California is putting in 13 GW over the canals."<br>
> >><br>
> >> According to LinkedIn, almost 1000 people read it, including people<br>
> >> in the utility industry. There were no comments except my comment,<br>
> >> giving my email. No emails.<br>
> >><br>
> >> Is the idea so strange that people can't understand? 75 years ago,<br>
> >> the US made town gas from coke at a similar scale. Is invoking<br>
> >> chemical reactions from the Victorian era simply rejected?<br>
> >><br>
> >> Any thoughts on the results? I am mystified.<br>
> >><br>
> >> Keith<br>
> >><br>
> >> PS March 24, I am giving a talk on this topic to the local IEEE<br>
> >> chapter. If it is not closed, I will let you know.<br>
> >> --<br>
> >> To post, email to: <a href="mailto:hackers-l@lists.hackersconference.org" target="_blank">hackers-l@lists.hackersconference.org</a><br>
> >> To unsubscribe send an email to<br>
> >> <a href="mailto:hackers-l-leave@lists.hackersconference.org" target="_blank">hackers-l-leave@lists.hackersconference.org</a><br>
> >> To see this list's archive, or to unsubscribe:<br>
> >> <a href="https://lists.hackersconference.org/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.hackersconference.org/</a><br>
> >> For all other issues, contact the list admins:<br>
> >> <a href="mailto:hackers-l-owner@lists.hackersconference.org" target="_blank">hackers-l-owner@lists.hackersconference.org</a><br>
><br>
> --<br>
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Power Satellite Economics" group.<br>
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to <a href="mailto:power-satellite-economics%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com" target="_blank">power-satellite-economics+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com</a>.<br>
> To view this discussion visit <a href="https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/power-satellite-economics/CAPiwVB5asaCt9E%3D3J9gq6hh4SiV-r4hvJVrAf-uwUNeweAZPwA%40mail.gmail.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/power-satellite-economics/CAPiwVB5asaCt9E%3D3J9gq6hh4SiV-r4hvJVrAf-uwUNeweAZPwA%40mail.gmail.com</a>.<br>
><br>
<br>
-- <br>
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Inventor's Lunch" group.<br>
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to <a href="mailto:inventors-lunch%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com" target="_blank">inventors-lunch+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com</a>.<br>
To view this discussion visit <a href="https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/inventors-lunch/CAPiwVB6Vb6ETAeNT6jMjRH4UtNUYZK7PBFPe8g3TO-U%2BuSpXjA%40mail.gmail.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/inventors-lunch/CAPiwVB6Vb6ETAeNT6jMjRH4UtNUYZK7PBFPe8g3TO-U%2BuSpXjA%40mail.gmail.com</a>.<br>
For more options, visit <a href="https://groups.google.com/d/optout" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://groups.google.com/d/optout</a>.<br>
</blockquote></div>
</blockquote></div></div>