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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple style='word-wrap:break-word'><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> John Clark <johnkclark@gmail.com> <br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, 11 June, 2026 1:17 PM<br><b>To:</b> spike@rainier66.com<br><b>Cc:</b> ExI chat list <extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [ExI] robo-rescue<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Thu, Jun 11, 2026 at 3:55<span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'> </span>PM <<a href="mailto:spike@rainier66.com">spike@rainier66.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><p class=MsoNormal><span class=gmaildefault><i><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>> </span></i></span><i><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif'>How do we know it is huge </span></i><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'>The Navy says<span class=gmaildefault> </span></span></b><span class=gmaildefault><b><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>a</span></b></span><b><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'> Trump class battleship will displace between<span class=gmaildefault> </span>35,000 and <span class=gmaildefault>41,000 tons…<o:p></o:p></span></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><span class=gmaildefault><b><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></b></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span class=gmaildefault><b><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'>Do you presume they are going to tell you they are really doing?<o:p></o:p></span></b></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><p class=MsoNormal><span class=gmaildefault><i><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif'>> </span></i></span><i><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif'>or how much it costs?</span></i><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'>>…The Navy says a Trump class battleship will cost between $17.4 billion and $22 billion<span class=gmaildefault>…<o:p></o:p></span></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><span class=gmaildefault><b><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></b></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span class=gmaildefault><b><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'>Again John do you presume they are going to tell us what they are really doing?<o:p></o:p></span></b></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span class=gmaildefault><b><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></b></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span class=gmaildefault><b><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'>>…And the US military is, to put it politely, not well known for underestimating its cost estimates. </span></b></span><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><p class=MsoNormal><span class=gmaildefault><b><i><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>> </span></i></b></span><b><i><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif'> </span></i></b><i><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif'>It might be that battleship is the size of a city bus</span></i><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> >…<span class=gmaildefault><b><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'>41,000 tons is pretty big for a city bus…<o:p></o:p></span></b></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span class=gmaildefault><b><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></b></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span class=gmaildefault><b><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'>Of course. But we don’t know how much it displaces. We don’t know its dimensions or its cost. The Navy will offer a number, but they won’t tell us what they are doing, for that would also tell our enemies, and inform countermeasures.<o:p></o:p></span></b></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><p class=MsoNormal><span class=gmaildefault><i><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>> </span></i></span><i><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif'>and costs less than the missile sent against it, </span></i><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'>>…And pigs might fly…<o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'>We don’t even know if a missile was involved in the Apache crash. I would suspect not, for the pilots were not damaged. You called out $20k. I know of no guided missiles that come in at that miniscule rate. Do you? Do share.<span class=gmaildefault> </span> </span></b><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><p class=MsoNormal><span class=gmaildefault><i><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>> </span></i></span><i><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif'>but emits a radar signature that looks like a traditional battleship.</span></i><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'>>…Why in the hell would <span class=gmaildefault>the</span> US military want to <span class=gmaildefault><u>ENHANCE</u></span> <span class=gmaildefault>the </span>radar cross-section<span class=gmaildefault> of its warships or planes</span>?!</span></b><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'>J<span class=gmaildefault>ohn K Clark<o:p></o:p></span></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><span class=gmaildefault><b><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></b></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span class=gmaildefault><b><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'>They enhance radar cross section to draw fire John. Decoys emit radar signals to look like a big beautiful battleship, to draw fire from missiles that cost more than the “battleship.” This has the secondary benefit of revealing the origin of the counterfire. Sheesh, John, you really need to drop your confidence level in your posts. There are plenty of things about military operations you aren’t getting. Do try harder sir.<o:p></o:p></span></b></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span class=gmaildefault><b><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></b></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span class=gmaildefault><b><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'>spike <o:p></o:p></span></b></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span class=gmaildefault><b><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></b></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span class=gmaildefault><b><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></b></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span class=gmaildefault><b><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></b></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> John Clark <<a href="mailto:johnkclark@gmail.com" target="_blank">johnkclark@gmail.com</a>> <br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [ExI] robo-rescue</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'>>…It's interesting that a drone boat was able to rescue the crew of a helicopter, but I think it's even more interesting that a $20,000 Iranian drone was able to knock a AH-64 Apache attack helicopter out of the air which cost between 52 and 100 million dollars depending on how many bells and whistles it had. This should make anybody think twice before they decide to build a huge "Trump class" battleship. </span></b><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'>John K Clark</span></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'> </span></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'> </span></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'> </span></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'> </span></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'> </span></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'>How do we know it is huge or how much it costs? It might be that battleship is the size of a city bus and costs less than the missile sent against it, but emits a radar signature that looks like a traditional battleship.</span></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'> </span></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'>spike</span></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'> </span></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'> </span></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'> </span></b><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></body></html>