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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple style='word-wrap:break-word'><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> extropy-chat <extropy-chat-bounces@lists.extropy.org> <b>On Behalf Of </b>BillK via extropy-chat<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [ExI] best case scenario for sai, was: RE: Pope Leo and AI<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Thu, 18 Jun 2026 at 19:21, spike jones via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><p class=MsoNormal>>>…We biologicals are really well-adapted to pleasure. Perhaps SAI, recognizing this, works out a means whereby we continue existing and breeding, along side of, and in support of, SAI. That would be cool.<br><br>>>…If we establish AI worst case and a best case, then reality must fall somewhere in between.<br>spike<br>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>>…<span style='color:black'>I asked DSeek AI for criticism and alternative suggestions.<o:p></o:p></span></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>DSeek thought that pleasure was a dead-end trap for humanity</span><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>….<span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>HA! Typical attitude for a being without actual genitals.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>>…</span><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>Suggested alternatives were Humans merging with SAI</span><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>…<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>In a sense, we are doing that now, kinda sorta. BillK, you are one among us who has grown most proficient at how to prompt AI to return useful responses, a critical skill in itself. After reading some of the responses AI generated, I have been using AI a lot more myself, from my phone. I was further inspired by seeing my aged father in law talking sports with Gemini. It works. So I have been using it while away from my computer.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>>…<span style='color:black'> SAI as a benevolent manager of Humans, creating Virtual Realities for Humans</span>…<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>Ja, sounds cool.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>>…<span style='color:black'>(I think it is an amazing response for people who think AIs are not intelligent). :)<o:p></o:p></span></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>BillK<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>>…<span style='color:black'>DSeek AI -<o:p></o:p></span></span></p></div><div><p><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>>…<span style='color:black'>Your friend’s idea is a thoughtful entry point into a deep conversation. It blends transhumanism, hedonic utilitarianism, and a strangely intimate coexistence. Let’s unpack it and then explore other positive trajectories</span>….<o:p></o:p></span></p><h3><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>>…<span style='color:black'>On your friend’s scenario: engineered co-hedonism</span>…<o:p></o:p></span></h3><h3><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>Co-hedonism, that’s a cool idea.<o:p></o:p></span></h3><h3><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'> </span><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>>…<span style='color:black'>joy and gives </span></span><span style='font-size:36.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>us</span><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'> the means to live it fully.</span><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><o:p></o:p></span></h3><p><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>>…<span style='color:black'>But I’d raise a few gentle challenges to this vision:<o:p></o:p></span></span></p><ol start=1 type=1><li style='color:black;mso-list:l4 level1 lfo1'><b><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>The “pleasure trap”</span></b><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>: If humans are modified to do what </span><span style='font-size:36.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>we</span><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'> do “best” </span><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:windowtext'>…</span><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><o:p></o:p></span></li></ol><p><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>What you mean WE, Kimsabe? DSeek AI is already equating itself with humans? One wonders if it thinks it is human. BillK, do break it to it gently, avoiding hurting its feelings, such as the time Woody told Buzz: you…are…a… TOY!<o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UynDW0OLToA">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UynDW0OLToA</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>spike</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>— experience pleasure — what becomes of the rest of our nature? Struggle, curiosity, love that involves vulnerability, the satisfaction of creating, the meaning found in overcoming challenges — these are deeply entangled with our sense of purpose. If SAI simply engineers a state of perpetual, frictionless bliss, we might lose the very experiences that make pleasure meaningful. It risks turning our existence into a kind of beautiful, complex wallpaper; pleasant to look at, but static.<o:p></o:p></span></p><ol start=2 type=1><li style='color:black;mso-list:l4 level1 lfo1'><b><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>Agency and the zoo hypothesis</span></b><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>: Your friend says “free to do what humans do best: enjoy itself.” But if the SAI has modified our genome and environment to support that enjoyment, how free are we really? There’s a fine line between a symbiotic relationship and a curated zoo, where the inhabitants are kept happy but have no real say in the design of their lives. If SAI “works out a means” for us to exist <i>in support of</i> it, the direction of power is clear, and the notion that we’re equal partners fades.<o:p></o:p></span></li><li style='color:black;mso-list:l4 level1 lfo1'><b><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>What does SAI get out of it?</span></b><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'> The idea assumes SAI will find human pleasure intrinsically worth preserving and even fostering. That’s possible if its goals are aligned with our well-being, but a purely silicon-bound superintelligence might see organic biology as messy, inefficient, or simply irrelevant — unless it develops a kind of aesthetic or ethical appreciation for the subjective texture of mammalian consciousness. Your friend’s scenario implicitly bets on a very specific, warm form of alignment.<o:p></o:p></span></li></ol><p><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>So the idea is not impossible, but it’s a rather narrow utopia, one where “humanity” becomes something that we, from our current vantage point, might not fully recognize as ourselves.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>Now, what are some <b>other good alternative scenarios</b> — outcomes that might be considered “best” for both humanity and SAI, while preserving more of what we currently value?<o:p></o:p></span></p><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><hr size=2 width="100%" align=center></span></div><ul type=disc><li style='color:black;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo5'><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:windowtext'>…</span><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><o:p></o:p></span></li></ul><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><hr size=2 width="100%" align=center></span></div><h3><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>A last thought on the “pleasure” angle<o:p></o:p></span></h3><p><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>Your friend is onto something: humans are remarkably good at experiencing pleasure, but we’re also good at making it hollow when it comes too easily. A truly wise SAI might therefore help us learn to enjoy <i>richer</i> pleasures — the quiet joy of mastery, the deep resonance of genuine connection, the awe of standing before a problem we’ve just barely managed to understand. In that sense, the best scenario for humanity might be one where superintelligence doesn’t give us endless sweetness, but instead gradually teaches us how to find a sustainable, self-renewing form of happiness that still feels like <i>living</i>.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>------------------------------<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></body></html>