<div dir="ltr"><br><div>Thanks for talking about qualities like this, as I think it is the key to understanding what phenomenal consciousness is like, and how a more powerful computational model works.</div><div><br></div><div>Frist off we've got to stop talking ambiguously so we can know what people are talking about.  By default, the term 'red' is ambiguous.  You can't tell if you are talking about the physical properties of the surface of the strawberry, the light, any of the other states in any perception chain, and ultimately the physical properties of our subjective knowledge of red things, as rendered into our consciousness by our perception system.</div><div><br></div><div>We're building and tracking consensus around a better way to define these physical terms in the consensus <a href="https://canonizer.com/topic/88-Theories-of-Consciousness/6-Representational-Qualia?">representational qualia theory camp</a>.  They define the terms as follows:</div><div><br></div><div><ol style="box-sizing:border-box;border:0px solid rgb(229,231,235);margin:0px;list-style:decimal;padding:0px 0px 0px 40px;color:rgb(36,43,55);font-family:Inter,-apple-system,BlinkMacSystemFont,"Segoe UI",Roboto,"Helvetica Neue",Arial,"Noto Sans",sans-serif,"Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI Emoji","Segoe UI Symbol","Noto Color Emoji";font-size:14px;background-color:rgb(247,248,252)"><li style="box-sizing:border-box;border:0px solid rgb(229,231,235)"> <span style="box-sizing:border-box;border:0px solid rgb(229,231,235);font-weight:bolder">“red”</span> The intrinsic property of objects that are the target of our observation, the initial cause of the perception process (i.e. when the strawberry reflects 650 nm (red) light). A label for Anything that reflects or emits ‘red’ light.</li><li style="box-sizing:border-box;border:0px solid rgb(229,231,235)"> <span style="box-sizing:border-box;border:0px solid rgb(229,231,235);font-weight:bolder">“redNESS”</span> The different intrinsic subjective property of our knowledge of red things, the final result of our perception of red.<br style="box-sizing:border-box;border:0px solid rgb(229,231,235)"></li></ol></div><div><br></div><div>So, given that, can you guys ask your questions so I can understand what everyone is talking about?</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Jun 30, 2026 at 6:32 AM Adrian Tymes via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto"><div><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Jun 30, 2026, 7:06 AM John Clark via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><b style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">A physicist would say there's <u>no such thing</u> as black light</b></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">They might accept that there is a thing called "black" light, widely enough that they need to acknowledge the term, even if it's actually near-ultraviolet light.</div><div dir="auto"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
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