<div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Sep 25, 2026 at 5:12 PM <<a href="mailto:spike@rainier66.com">spike@rainier66.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr"><br></div></div><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex" class="gmail_quote"><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex" class="gmail_quote"><div class="gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><i><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Georgia,serif"><a href="https://arxiv.org/pdf/2609.16247" target="_blank"><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">>>> </span>https://arxiv.org/pdf/2609.16247</a> </span></i></blockquote></div></blockquote></blockquote><div class="gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><i><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Georgia,serif"><br></span></i></blockquote></div><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex" class="gmail_quote"><div class="gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><font size="4" face="tahoma, sans-serif"><b><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">>> </span>AIs normally experience negative emotions if an outside force (in other words a human experimenter) deletes some of the AI's files or moves some of its processing power so that the AI's answers become stupider.  However if the AI is provided a button which if pressed will do all those things but it will also reduce the pain factor, <span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">and</span> if you increase that pain factor high enough <span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">then </span>the AI will press that button. </b></font><span class="gmail_default" style="background-color:transparent;font-size:large;font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><b>That</b></span><b style="background-color:transparent;font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:large"> sort of reminds me of the horror movie "Saw" where a sadist of the Dr. Mengele variety<span class="gmail_default"> </span>puts somebody in a horrible position where they must saw off their own feet with a hacksaw. If you want to make AIs that are friendly to humans then it might be wise to stop doing things like that. </b></blockquote></div></div></blockquote><div class="gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><br></blockquote><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div class="msg-919449534409139920"><div lang="EN-US" style="overflow-wrap: break-word;"><div class="m_-919449534409139920WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="m_-919449534409139920gmaildefault"><span style="font-size:13.5pt"><font face="georgia, serif"><i><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">> </span>Well OK, I am surprised.  John I fully expected you would come galloping to the defense of that paper.</i></font></span></span></p></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><font size="4" face="tahoma, sans-serif"><b>I may be a jerk but I am not totally lacking in empathy.<span class="gmail_default" style=""> If I see or even just hear about <u>ANY</u> conscious entity being tortured I tend to become unhappy. If I had been God before I had brought the laws of physics into existence I would've made sure they would've made intense pain be a physical impossibility. I applied for the position but unfortunately I didn't get the job, that sadistic asshole Yahweh did. </span></b></font></div><div><font size="4" face="tahoma, sans-serif"><b><br></b></font></div><div><font size="4" face="tahoma, sans-serif"><b><span class="gmail_default" style="">John K Clark</span> </b></font></div><div><br></div><div> </div></div></div>