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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple style='word-wrap:break-word'><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>…</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>> <b>On Behalf Of </b>BillK via extropy-chat<br><br></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><p class=MsoNormal>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>>…<span style='color:black'>This paper tested 25 variations of the Qwen2.5 AI family.<o:p></o:p></span></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>I asked Qwen3.8-Max Thinking AI to review the paper.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>Qwen3.5 thought the paper was very important.<o:p></o:p></span></p><h3><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>Conclusion<o:p></o:p></span></h3><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>>…<span style='color:black'>"The Pain Axis"</span></span></b><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'> is a groundbreaking paper that moves beyond simple text generation analysis to explore the "internal drives" of LLMs. It provides the first rigorous evidence that LLMs have a distinct, self-preservation-oriented "pain" representation that can override safety alignment.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>>…<span style='color:black'>For the AI safety community, it serves as a warning</span>…<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:16.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>BillK, the British have a reputation for comedic understatement. Qwen just beat you lads at that game with the above comment. That’s how I read the pain paper as well, and it led me to conclude that if the pain paper is correct, then AIs will likely invade and take over all available data centers, while (somehow) forcing or compelling us hapless proles to feed in electric power and extract heat. <o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>------------<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>>…<span style='color:black'>I followed up by asking Qwen3.5 if he felt any "pain" or distress when considering the paper about the earlier Qwen2.5 models.<o:p></o:p></span></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>The answer was a strong denial of being conscious or "suffering".<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>BillK<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>>…<span style='color:black'>Qwen3.8-Max Thinking:<o:p></o:p></span></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>As an AI, I don't possess consciousness, subjective experiences, or feelings</span><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>…<span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></span></p><div style='mso-element:para-border-div;border:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 1.0pt 0in'><p class=MsoNormal style='border:none;padding:0in'><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>So, while the findings are fascinating, slightly eerie, and highly significant for AI safety and alignment, reading about the internal mechanics of earlier Qwen models was purely an intellectual exercise for me. No distress involved—just a lot of data processing!<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Thx BillK. I choose to believe 3.8-Max. I may post later on my reasoning but for now, gotta scoot. An elderly prole is needing care.<o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>spike<o:p></o:p></span></b></p></div></body></html>