<div dir="ltr">Dear [Recipient Name],<br><br>I recognize that I may not change your perspective on this, but I feel it is important to share these points so that others might be fully informed.<br><br>Best regards,<br><br>Keith Henson<br><br><div><div class="gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Oct 15, 2026 at 5:15 PM <<a href="mailto:spike@rainier66.com">spike@rainier66.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div class="msg6724700317002162903"><div style="overflow-wrap: break-word;" lang="EN-US"><div class="m_6724700317002162903WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><div style="border-color:rgb(225,225,225) currentcolor currentcolor;border-style:solid none none;border-width:1pt medium medium;padding:3pt 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Keith Henson <<a href="mailto:hkeithhenson@gmail.com" target="_blank">hkeithhenson@gmail.com</a>> <br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, 15 October, 2026 4:13 PM<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:spike@rainier66.com" target="_blank">spike@rainier66.com</a><br><b>Cc:</b> ExI chat list <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [ExI] ai is the easy road<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">On Wed, Oct 14, 2026 at 10:29<span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span>PM <<a href="mailto:spike@rainier66.com" target="_blank">spike@rainier66.com</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p><blockquote style="border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204,204,204);border-style:none none none solid;border-width:medium medium medium 1pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in"><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><u></u><u></u></p></div></blockquote><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="m_6724700317002162903gmaildefault">snip</span> <u></u><u></u></p><blockquote style="border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204,204,204);border-style:none none none solid;border-width:medium medium medium 1pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in"><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> <u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">I visited some of the poorest areas of the country, if measured in dollars. <u></u><u></u></span></p></div></blockquote><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">>…You *really* do not groik EP.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">>…The trip in our psychological traits depends on *relative* changes. Absolute poverty does not trip social unrest. Declining income or even the prospect of it does….<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">OK that is another triumph for EP. The areas I visited are seeing very little change over time, but the future looks pretty good.</span></p></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div style="font-size:small" class="gmail_default">Remember that your ancestors (and mine) left that part of the country for places with more promise.</div><div style="font-size:small" class="gmail_default"><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div class="msg6724700317002162903"><div style="overflow-wrap: break-word;" lang="EN-US"><div class="m_6724700317002162903WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> As I understand it, demand for coal is expected to rise. I didn’t detect a trace of pessimism in the places I visited. <u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><br></span></p></div></div></div></blockquote><div><span class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">The prospects for coal are dismal. True or not, rising CO2 will be blamed for rising temperatures. As we have recently discussed here, we are one multi day blackout in an Arizona heat wave from a million casualties. After that, or a world wide crop failure from excess heat, there will be massive pressure to reduce burning coal. </span><span class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">Or do you think disasters of this class will not affect coal mining?</span><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><br></span></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div class="msg6724700317002162903"><div style="overflow-wrap: break-word;" lang="EN-US"><div class="m_6724700317002162903WordSection1"><blockquote style="border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204,204,204);border-style:none none none solid;border-width:medium medium medium 1pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in"><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">But even in their poverty, they have a lot of room. A lot of their food is homegrown, and they produce more than they consume. So if food prices go up, so does the value of their crops. Their quality of life is better than their urban counterparts who make twice as much money. <u></u><u></u></span></p></div></blockquote><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">>…I was not aware that WV grew a lot of crops…<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">They don’t grow a lot. Their land is chopped up, so the emphasis is on higher yield crops that don’t take up much land, such as apples, strawberries, marijuana. But the population is sparse, so in general they are not living beyond<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> >…Where do they ship them?<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">My impression is that they trade them more than sell or ship them. My 90 yr old cousin had some corn, not a lot, beans, especially tomatoes. <u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><blockquote style="border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204,204,204);border-style:none none none solid;border-width:medium medium medium 1pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in"><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">>… We need to make triple the amount of electric power as we do now. <u></u><u></u></span></p></div></blockquote><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">>…That's not obvious. The AI hunger for power may dry up as fast as it came about. Musk moved really fast with low efficiency used aircraft turbines and may make his money back. For the rest, it is not so certain. One wild card is the Chinese giving away AI for free….</span></p></div></div></div></blockquote><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div class="msg6724700317002162903"><div style="overflow-wrap: break-word;" lang="EN-US"><div class="m_6724700317002162903WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Always a risk, agreed. If the Chinese give AI away free, what’s in it for them? </span></p></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div style="font-size:small" class="gmail_default">Prestige, proof that their system is better, influence. And who knows what Chinese AIs are reporting back? That could be worth more to them than the cost of training an AI.</div><div style="font-size:small" class="gmail_default"><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div class="msg6724700317002162903"><div style="overflow-wrap: break-word;" lang="EN-US"><div class="m_6724700317002162903WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Why wouldn’t they charge as much as the cappies will pay? I predict they will charge whatever the market will bear, regardless of who gets it first.</span></p></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div style="font-size:small" class="gmail_default">So far, that is not the case.<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div class="msg6724700317002162903"><div style="overflow-wrap: break-word;" lang="EN-US"><div class="m_6724700317002162903WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p><blockquote style="border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204,204,204);border-style:none none none solid;border-width:medium medium medium 1pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in"><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Around 2010, the federal government was busy making rules that shut down coal mines. When asked what the unemployed miners should do, they were told to learn to code. Now AI is shutting down a lot of what coders used to do, but fortunately they can now learn to mine coal.<u></u><u></u></span></p></div></blockquote><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">>…More likely program coal minin machines….</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">No doubt about<span class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"> </span>that.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">>…The push is on to get humans out of underground mining….<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">As I understand it, that has already happened.</span></p></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div style="font-size:small" class="gmail_default">No. Black lung is still rampant among coal miners. I think hard rock mining is ahead of coal automation. Probably a reasoned cost decision by management.</div><div style="font-size:small" class="gmail_default"><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div class="msg6724700317002162903"><div style="overflow-wrap: break-word;" lang="EN-US"><div class="m_6724700317002162903WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> It was very controversial back in the 1990s because coal miners were always given as many pain killers as they requested</span></p></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div style="font-size:small" class="gmail_default">Access to opiates was widespread, not just coal miners. And chopping off medical drugs opened the market for fentanyl. Working in a coal mine on opiates makes a dangerous job even worse.<br></div><div style="font-size:small" class="gmail_default"><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div class="msg6724700317002162903"><div style="overflow-wrap: break-word;" lang="EN-US"><div class="m_6724700317002162903WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">. They sold them to supplement to their paltry pay. </span></p></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div style="font-size:small" class="gmail_default">Can you cite any sources for this statement? Not saying you are wrong, I just don't have the background. Underground miners I knew in Arizona, the same Union, made decent pay. I knew some of them.<br></div><div style="font-size:small" class="gmail_default"><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div class="msg6724700317002162903"><div style="overflow-wrap: break-word;" lang="EN-US"><div class="m_6724700317002162903WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">In the 1990s, coal mining went from what they had been doing to not that different from any other office job: they were on the surface operating machines underground.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">>…Have you ever worked at a job similar to coal mining? Have you ever been down in a mine?<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Never have. Most modern coal miners haven’t either.</span></p></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div style="font-size:small" class="gmail_default">Cite please?<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div class="msg6724700317002162903"><div style="overflow-wrap: break-word;" lang="EN-US"><div class="m_6724700317002162903WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">>…Hard, dangerous work….<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Until it became safe.</span></p></div></div></div></blockquote><div><span class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"> <br></span></div><div><span class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">Actually working underground, and someone has to repair the machines at least, is dangerous. Not as bad as it was</span></div><div>
<span class="gmail-iNqyIf"><strong class="gmail-rQesXe gmail-MPyX">Modern U.S. Miners:</strong>
For deceased U.S. coal miners who filed for federal benefits (spanning
cohorts up through recent decades), the average age at the time of death
is typically around <strong class="gmail-rQesXe gmail-MPyX">72 years</strong>,
though specific subsets—particularly in Central Appalachia (Kentucky,
Virginia, and West Virginia)—suffer dramatically higher rates of fatal
nonmalignant respiratory diseases like black lung and COPD.</span><span class="gmail-WBgIic gmail-Wg1cdb gmail-notranslate"><span class="gmail-NMq1me"><span aria-hidden="true"> </span><span class="gmail-"><span class="gmail-"><a class="gmail-PMDqCb" target="_blank" rel="noopener" aria-label="School of Public Health | University of Illinois Chicago" href="https://publichealth.uic.edu/news-stories/modern-coal-miners-suffering-higher-fatality-rates/"></a></span></span></span></span> <br></div><div><br></div><div><div style="font-size:small" class="gmail_default">To my surprise, younger coal miners are doing worse.</div><div style="font-size:small" class="gmail_default"><a href="https://publichealth.uic.edu/news-stories/modern-coal-miners-suffering-higher-fatality-rates/">https://publichealth.uic.edu/news-stories/modern-coal-miners-suffering-higher-fatality-rates/</a></div><br></div><div><span class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"><br></span></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div class="msg6724700317002162903"><div style="overflow-wrap: break-word;" lang="EN-US"><div class="m_6724700317002162903WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><a href="https://www.minesafetycenter.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/100-yrs.png" target="_blank">https://www.minesafetycenter.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/100-yrs.png</a><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><img style="width: 7.677in; height: 4.1145in;" id="m_6724700317002162903Picture_x0020_1" src="cid:ii_1a142b907554ce8e91" width="737" height="395" border="0"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">>…Would your typical programmer last a day? I doubt it.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">I don’t see why not. It would be similar to operating a video game I suppose.</span></p></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div style="font-size:small" class="gmail_default">Underground. That's where the work still is. I have been underground in a working mine and many times explored abandoned ones, though it has been a long time. I worked for a number of years in conditions that were closer to mining than programming. The percentage of programmers who could deal with the physical challenges of underground mining is, in my estimation, vanishingly small. If you want to try it, let me know how it goes.<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div class="msg6724700317002162903"><div style="overflow-wrap: break-word;" lang="EN-US"><div class="m_6724700317002162903WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p><blockquote style="border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204,204,204);border-style:none none none solid;border-width:medium medium medium 1pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in"><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">>>>…Mob lynching are out iof favor _at the moment_.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">>>…Ja. Modern day lynchings require the victim to hire the mob.<u></u><u></u></span></p></div></blockquote><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">>…This is not understandable, can you explain?<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">The movie actor Jussie Smollett was the victim of a modern day lynching, according to prominent politicians. The comedians such as Dave Cheppelle had a field day with it. Turns out he hired a coupla goons to beat him up so he could claim to be the victim.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> </span></p></div></div></div></blockquote><div><span class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">Whatever it was, it was not a linching. He lived. If the Jan 6 mob had grabbed Pense, do ;you think they would have hanged him? The knot was tied correctly. A black guy, I don't think he was ever identified, cut it down. Blacks are sensitive on that subject for some reason.<br></span></div><div><span class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"><br></span> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div class="msg6724700317002162903"><div style="overflow-wrap: break-word;" lang="EN-US"><div class="m_6724700317002162903WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">>…Ask the AI of your choice about this. MAGA and the other "conservative" organizations are quite specific about the people they want to get rid of. Ever heard of White Christian nationalism?<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">I have. What I don’t see are concentration camps, mass murder, sweeping takeover of Canada, Mexico and everything to the south. None of that happened. </span></p></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div style="font-size:small" class="gmail_default">Things certainly moved in that direction. And if you look into it, the ICE "detention centers' housing conditions are worse than the Nazi concentration camps which had bunks. A lot of ICE detains are sleeping on the floor.. Don't believe me? Go visit one. Take several people along, even congressional representatives visit in groups for fear they will not get out.<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div class="msg6724700317002162903"><div style="overflow-wrap: break-word;" lang="EN-US"><div class="m_6724700317002162903WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p><blockquote style="border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204,204,204);border-style:none none none solid;border-width:medium medium medium 1pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in"><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:11.55pt"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">We struggle too hard to explain why an unpopular guy <u></u><u></u></span></p></div></blockquote><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">>…He is now, but he was popular enough to get elected….<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Sure, and I am making the case that he was not particularly popular when he was first elected. He was elected the first time because the mainstream candidate was even more unlikeable and distrusted.</span></p></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div style="font-size:small" class="gmail_default">An awful lot of that "unlikeable and distrusted" was manufactured by people using the internet tools we (the technical people) generated. It is my opinion that Hillery would have been at least a decent president. Consider who she could ask for advice. One of the things you harp on is the financial disaster facing the US. Do you remember who was president the last time the US had a balanced budget?</div><div style="font-size:small" class="gmail_default"><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div class="msg6724700317002162903"><div style="overflow-wrap: break-word;" lang="EN-US"><div class="m_6724700317002162903WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">>…There are still people (should I include you?) who consider him the greatest president ever…<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">You should not include me. I consider him about middle of the pack, ranked around low 20s. It could be 1 being the best or 1 being the worst, it doesn’t matter which way you number them in this case. I don’t think there are many who consider him the greatest president ever. There might be I suppose, but how would we know? Have you ever met anyone who thought that?</span></p></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div style="font-size:small" class="gmail_default">Yes. I have a hard time believing that you lead such a cloistered life even in California. On the other hand, some of those people have, in the last year, regretted being involved with MAGA.</div><div style="font-size:small" class="gmail_default"><br></div><div style="font-size:small" class="gmail_default"><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div class="msg6724700317002162903"><div style="overflow-wrap: break-word;" lang="EN-US"><div class="m_6724700317002162903WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Neither have I. I notice the approval ratings confirm: about middle of the pack. </span></p></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div style="font-size:small" class="gmail_default">Please cite a reputable poll. I don't follow them, but I notice in passing that they are the lowests in history.</div><div style="font-size:small" class="gmail_default"><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div class="msg6724700317002162903"><div style="overflow-wrap: break-word;" lang="EN-US"><div class="m_6724700317002162903WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">The second time (2024) was about an opposition party deeply divided. In our lifetimes we saw third party candidates arise twice: once in 1968 with George Wallace in 1992 with Ross Perot the third guy on the debate stage. I liked Perot, voted for him twice (clarification: in two different elections.)<u></u><u></u></span></p><blockquote style="border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204,204,204);border-style:none none none solid;border-width:medium medium medium 1pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in"><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">>>…won two of the last three elections by equating him with Hitler, when an easier explanation suffices: his opposition is divided against itself. This is having a bigger impact than the opposition party wishes to admit. But it is a coalition of increasingly incompatible elements. EP works fine. <u></u><u></u></span></p></div></blockquote><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">>…And I make the case that you do not understand it. Keith<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">I will grant I am not an expert on it. However, to continue to argue the current POTUS won twice because he is popular</span></p></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div style="font-size:small" class="gmail_default">That is not the EP related point. The EP point is *why*. Bad economic prospects leads to xenophobia memes spreading well, and while I can't make a solid EP argument yet, I think the lead up to war or movement in that direction makes unstable leaders more attractive. Selecting an unstable, perhaps delusional, leader is what you need for a war. And consider the war ideas he has floated, <br></div><div style="font-size:small" class="gmail_default">Anexating Canada through military force, taking over Greenland, kidnapping Venezuela's.leader, threats against Cuba. And, of course, he did go to war with Iran, disrupting the world economy. I suspect that he did that mostly to negate the Obama enrichment deal.</div><div style="font-size:small" class="gmail_default"><br></div><div style="font-size:small" class="gmail_default">Do you think the war with Iran is Constitutional? Presidents do not have that power in the Constitution last time I looked. Does that make the Iran war illegal? Could the relatives for those killed sue Trump on wrongful death grounds because it was not a legal war?</div><div style="font-size:small" class="gmail_default"><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div class="msg6724700317002162903"><div style="overflow-wrap: break-word;" lang="EN-US"><div class="m_6724700317002162903WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> is being used as an excuse for his opposition party to avoid facing a hard truth: they are their own enemy. We heard things we never thought we would hear: <u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> </span></p></div></div></div></blockquote><div><span class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">Were they real? Or Twitter quality?</span> <br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div class="msg6724700317002162903"><div style="overflow-wrap: break-word;" lang="EN-US"><div class="m_6724700317002162903WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><a href="https://www.youtube.com/shorts/5YxSjohE45I" target="_blank">https://www.youtube.com/shorts/5YxSjohE45I</a><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">And when one has lost <span class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"></span>Bill Maher…</span></p></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div style="font-size:small" class="gmail_default">I can't say I am aware of Bill Maher, but stick his name in any search engine. I don't think he is someone I would point to.</div><div style="font-size:small" class="gmail_default"><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div class="msg6724700317002162903"><div style="overflow-wrap: break-word;" lang="EN-US"><div class="m_6724700317002162903WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><a href="https://www.youtube.com/shorts/7oFrfCKK6WI" target="_blank">https://www.youtube.com/shorts/7oFrfCKK6WI</a><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">I think Maher is right on. Invest the two minutes to listen to a very astute observer, or at least that comment at about 1.42. Did you eeeeever think?<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Keith, it isn’t about EP this time. </span></p></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div style="font-size:small" class="gmail_default">If human social interactions are in play, it is always about EP.</div><div style="font-size:small" class="gmail_default"><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div class="msg6724700317002162903"><div style="overflow-wrap: break-word;" lang="EN-US"><div class="m_6724700317002162903WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">It is all about a deeply divided opposition. The democrats will be OK in 26. I predict they will take both houses of congress. But if they don’t repudiate the socialists, they will get spanked in 28, with a good republic candidate this time, clearly a smart, talented guy.</span></p></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div style="font-size:small" class="gmail_default">I might vote for a smart talented guy even if he is a Republican. It will be interesting to see if they can find such a guy. My bet is no.</div><div style="font-size:small" class="gmail_default"><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div class="msg6724700317002162903"><div style="overflow-wrap: break-word;" lang="EN-US"><div class="m_6724700317002162903WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> For that matter, the second-runner Rubio is a much stronger opponent than the democrat party has faced the last three cycles.</span></p></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div style="font-size:small" class="gmail_default">As you have pointed out, humans may not be in charge after the next election. Good or bad? It is hard to say but the current crop of authoritarian leaders, Putin and his buddy Trump set a low standard. The most recent event was beyond what even a lot of Trump supporters could stand. Selling out Ukraine to Putin for the amount of diesel the US burns in half a day is delusional if not just plain nuts.</div><div style="font-size:small" class="gmail_default"><br></div><div style="font-size:small" class="gmail_default">Keith<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div class="msg6724700317002162903"><div style="overflow-wrap: break-word;" lang="EN-US"><div class="m_6724700317002162903WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">spike<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><blockquote style="border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204,204,204);border-style:none none none solid;border-width:medium medium medium 1pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in"><div><blockquote style="border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor windowtext;border-style:none none none solid;border-width:medium medium medium 1pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt"><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></blockquote></div></blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div>