From shovland at mindspring.com Wed Dec 1 14:54:52 2004 From: shovland at mindspring.com (Steve Hovland) Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 06:54:52 -0800 Subject: [Paleopsych] US admits it used napalm bombs in Iraq Message-ID: <01C4D772.A9565EF0.shovland@mindspring.com> http://www.globalsecurity.org/org/news/2003/030810-napalm-iraq01.htm Steve Hovland www.stevehovland.net -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 32630 bytes Desc: not available URL: From paul.werbos at verizon.net Wed Dec 1 22:38:04 2004 From: paul.werbos at verizon.net (Werbos, Dr. Paul J.) Date: Wed, 01 Dec 2004 17:38:04 -0500 Subject: [Paleopsych] genetics as an intelligent system -- funny follow-ons In-Reply-To: <002801c4d704$95300610$03224346@yourjqn2mvdn7x> References: <111.3e1ca5f9.2ed959fe@aol.com> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20041201171853.02415bd8@incoming.verizon.net> At 09:46 AM 11/30/2004 -0800, Val Geist wrote: >From: HowlBloom at aol.com >To: paleopsych at paleopsych.org >Cc: dranees at compuserve.com >Sent: Friday, November 26, 2004 8:18 PM >Subject: Re: [Paleopsych] genetics as an intelligent system > >Instead of "metagenetics", can I off >When did the full suite of modern atoms--the 92 natural elements--become >complete? Did the full panoply of modern atoms arrive after the collapse >of the first meg-stars, stars that swelled, ignited, then died off very >quickly? That first period of star death would have been a mere two >million years after the big bang. > On this one --- I am a heretic. Closer to the Vedas than to the Old Testament book of Le Maitre and Gamow. MAYBE the universe is not infinite in time... maybe not... but I do not believe in the recent Big Bang theories. Or superstrings for that matter. There is more empirical data for ... well, there is no empirical data at all for the latter. > >Paul's words suggest that restlessness and boredom have been a key part of >this learning system. I've been calling this a restless cosmos, a driven >cosmos, an obsessive compulsive cosmos for a very long time. But Paul is >suggesting that we make computer-based learning machines restless >too. That we make them try out new possibilities just for the hell of it, >just to evade the pain of boredom, the pain of staying precisely the same, >the pain of ennui. Paul is on the brink of suggesting that we make >computational programs hunger for pop culture, for music and games that >test and expand the silicon brain in new ways. > >Paul is suggesting that genes may be as restless and boredom-prone as >Baudelaire, who painted ennui as the ultimate pain. He's suggesting that >on the sly, when they're not working, genes play around and dance in >leisure time. Or at least that's what Paul's ideas inspire in me. > Basically right. Exploration is an unavoidable issue in designing true intelligent systems. >I know that leisure, entertainment, pop culture, art, and play are not >useless. I've known it since I began my 20 years of fieldwork in these >fields--poetry, art, magazine publishing, and finally popular music. Paul >seems to be whispering to me that these cultural expressions may be a >stochastic search for new possibilities. And his words suggest to me that >genes play games too. They play the sort of musical games--establishment >of a theme, then variation on it--that Greg's mechanisms make possible. > >Paul, my apologies if I've bent your words, but they're extraordinarily >evocative. > >Can you share the Einstein-Bear connection you were pondering? I have imagined a couple of pop stories or musical comedies I would want to write if I were in that business. One, on research... a musical comedy with a cheap paperback book version... called "Hot Topics." On the cover, a Dean and a new assistant dressed in red and a certain kind of unique deanish expression. (Not all deans have it but...) Inside... a big announcement to his faculty... that he has been looking for a new research thrust for the place... something truly new and exciting... and his assistant announces... "sex." One old guy grouses "right on one out of two...". And "hot topics" really do warp a lot of what goes on in universities. Better than being a living mummy I suppose, but there are other choices... ========== Another image... probably a lot less marketable, but maybe more useful. A seance... the medium beings by warning that .. the astral world is full of spirits with unfinished business on earth but she will try to focus on the ones truly ... positive for the attendees... and then... a hush... and the voice comes out of her... "I am one of the spirits with enormous unfinished business on earth... my name is Albert Einstein... " One attendees says: "But you never even BELIEVED in ghosts..." "Yes, but that was before I became one. We all must bow to empirical data in the end. And yes, those German mystics like Bohr and Heisenberg have had their laughs about that up here... but not so many laughs... because, you see, they were dead wrong about something far more important to us, and we all can see it from up here. They were wrong about objective reality and the fact that time is not such a special dimension as THEIR theories made it out to be... Now since they themselves are up here, and cannot repent their sins directly to the world of earthly physics... it is my unfinished task to bring the truth to the cousins and descendants of Bohr... if there are any such here..." But then it would become mostly too technical, I suppose... though it would be nice if some of the new stuff could really be communicated... whatever... I had some thoughts about further words a week ago, but not now... ============== No comments on instant evolution just now. One funny association, however... In the neural network field, one robotics guy was very proud how his neural net design could push an unstable cart around a figure-eight track.. and then, when the weight on the cart changed, adapt to near-perfect tracking again after three laps around the track. But -- in a book in 1990, I described how he could adapt much FASTER than three laps, if he used a Time-Lagged Recurrent Network (TLRN) instead of baby shrink-wrapped MatLab kinds of stuff. (Well, he was a little better than that...) And Ford later tried out the TLRN approach, and confirmed it does all I said. VERY fast adaptation, FOR environmental changes QUALITATIVELY SIMILAR to changes which were experienced before during the training of the network. Qualitatively similar does not mean a familiar POINT -- only a familiar SPACE. I suppose genetic systems might have some ways of implementing that kind of capability,, maybe.. if they are that intelligent... Best, Paul > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From shovland at mindspring.com Thu Dec 2 01:10:49 2004 From: shovland at mindspring.com (Steve Hovland) Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 17:10:49 -0800 Subject: [Paleopsych] How Big Pharma Blew It Message-ID: <01C4D7C8.B55C1B80.shovland@mindspring.com> http://www.chiefexecutive.net/depts/pharmaceuticals/204.htm Bad choices and PR gaffes have finally caught up with the drug industry. BY FRAN HAWTHORNE For years now, Big Oil, tobacco and HMOs have pretty much held a monopoly in consumer loathing. But no longer: According to a recent Harris Poll, pharmaceutical companies have tied the big bad three as the industry that consumers love to hate the most. In fact, opposition is coming from all sides. Politicians from both major parties regularly denounce the drug makers for their prices, their marketing and for blocking Grandma from buying inexpensive medication from Canada. New York State Attorney General Eliot Spitzer this summer charged GlaxoSmithKline, the second-largest drug company in the world, with fraud for not revealing the negative results of clinical trials that tested antidepressants on children. Dozens of states have sued or investigated drug companies over their pricing tactics. In the space of just a year and a half, at least six books critical of the industry have been published, with titles like The Truth About the Drug Companies and The Big Fix. "You take Pfizer, you take Merck, you take Bristol-Myers, you take GlaxoSmith," says Larry Bossidy, former CEO of Honeywell and author of the new book Confronting Reality. "All of them face the same challenges. They're all looking down the same gun barrel." >From Indiana to New Jersey to Basel, Switzerland, CEOs of Big Pharma scratch their heads at the outpouring of anger. How did an industry that makes Gleevec as a treatment for cancer, Fosamax for osteoporosis and Lipitor for cholesterol-an industry whose products save people's lives-come to be so reviled? And what, if anything, can they do now to change that negative image? The giant drug makers and small biotechs, as well as consultants, economists and consumer advocates, point to causes that range from lousy PR to nasty battles with manufacturers of low-cost generic drugs to the flawed basic structure of health care in the United States. The biggest single point of protest is prescription drug prices, which have been soaring at far faster rates than the general cost of living. To some degree, the industry's dilemma is the inevitable side effect of being a big, profitable business. But to a larger degree, the wounds are self-inflicted. "What the public is telling us is, 'We love the innovation that you come up with, but we can't afford it,'" says Sidney Taurel, chairman, president and CEO of Eli Lilly. >From the other side of the divide, Dee Mahan, senior policy analyst at the Washington-based consumer group Families USA, puts it this way: "It's not like buying a Lexus-it's not something where you have a choice. People get angry because this is something that is critical that they need, and companies are raising the prices so much." Most people date the current problems to the early 1990s, when President Bill Clinton's health care reform plan rode a tide of public concern about rising costs. At first, HMOs bore the brunt, but after they loosened their coverage rules, the angry eye turned to drug companies. Some of that is convenience. These companies were obvious targets because they were big, they comprised one of the nation's most profitable industries, and they were powerful players in Washington. And just around that time, a flurry of breakthrough drugs came to market, like Mevacor for elevated cholesterol and Prozac for depression, and new drugs are always pricier than older ones with generic competition. "It's politically easier to point a finger at the small number of big pharmaceutical companies than at hospitals and doctors," complains Ben Hohn, a New York-based consultant at The Monitor Group, who specializes in biopharmaceuticals. "People have a personal relationship with the doctor, and they tend to associate the doctor with the hospital." Daniel Vasella, CEO of the Swiss drug giant Novartis, notes that "it became pretty obvious in the late '90s that the industry had a problem." A decade earlier, he recalls, people reacted with sympathy when he told them he worked for a drug company. "Today, the reaction is generally cold." Vasella and other industry defenders say a knowledge gap among consumers is partially to blame for their troubles. The economics of drug pricing and the relative benefits, they say, are intrinsically difficult to explain to the general public. "People don't realize the tremendous risks," says Kenneth I. Moch, president and CEO of Alteon, a New Jersey biotech company that specializes in cardiovascular disease, diabetes and aging. "The only way to attract investors and capital is to have high rewards." Based largely on controversial studies by Tufts University's Center for the Study of Drug Development, the industry claims it costs over $800 million and takes at least 12 years, on average, to come up with a new drug. Shot in the Foot Still, the pharmaceutical makers can hardly claim to be innocent victims. Even some industry stalwarts cringe at the record: They filed multiple lawsuits, sought questionable patent extensions and made outright payoffs to generic companies in order to maintain their monopolies on expensive blockbuster drugs like AstraZeneca's Prilosec for heartburn and Bristol-Myers Squibb's Glucophage for diabetes. They plied doctors with fancy dinners, Super Bowl tickets and exotic vacations to persuade them to prescribe particular drugs-sometimes going so far that they broke the law. As AIDS and HIV spread across poverty-stricken Africa, they refused to lower the prices of their expensive medications, claiming they didn't want to set a precedent by ceding any intellectual property rights. When the companies finally gave in to public pressure, they did it in baby steps and had to be tugged again and again. "The HIV story is not a pleasant one," Roy Vagelos, the former CEO of Merck, said in a 2002 interview. "Not coming up with a [discount or donation] program earlier was very damaging to [Merck's] reputation." After the Food and Drug Administration opened the door to pharmaceutical advertising on TV in 1997, the ad dollars poured in. The industry now spends some $3.8 billion on direct-to-consumer advertising that is almost indistinguishable from commercials for Diet Coke or Tide. The companies defend this as educating the public. But Mahan of Families USA says, "There is just too much. People ask, 'This is where the R&D money is going to?'" James Love, director of the Consumer Project on Technology, another advocacy group in Washington, points to another problem with TV commercials: "[The companies] lose the aura of the scientific organization. They come across as selling soap." On top of all that, baby boomers were starting to hit their 50s in the late 1990s, an age when prescription use rises dramatically. And boomers are a lot less likely than their parents to meekly swallow their doctors' advice-or expensive medicine. As the bad headlines and bad feelings piled up, says Ira S. Loss, executive vice president of the stock-market research firm Washington Analysis, "I think the leadership was very slow to recognize the severity of the problem." For an industry famous for its political clout-it usually has more Washington lobbyists than there are members of Congress-Big Pharma was politically tone-deaf to the PR disaster it was incurring by opposing a prescription drug benefit in Medicare for many years and blocking the purchase of low-cost drugs from Canada. "We were concerned more with explaining our point of view to opinion leaders and politicians than to the general public," Lilly's Taurel concedes. "That may have helped worsen our image." Self-Analysis: A Good Start Boyd Clarke, a former marketing executive at Merck and now CEO of Neose Technologies, a Philadelphia-area biotech firm, muses: "I sometimes wonder whether Pharma has not gotten itself in a bad position by being so identified with the Republican Party that there is a great deal of difficulty in getting its message out in a nonpartisan context." Now the drug makers have started to catch on and have attempted to introduce change. Executives like Taurel, Vagelos and Pfizer CEO Henry McKinnell have been speaking out about some of the issues behind the industry's lousy image. The Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America, the major trade group, in 2002 adopted tighter restrictions on marketing to doctors (though arguably these are still often ignored). After Spitzer's lawsuit, Glaxo, Lilly and Merck announced they would make more of their trial results publicly available. Many people also praise Bristol-Myers Squibb for its public service ads featuring cyclist and cancer survivor Lance Armstrong talking about the importance of pharmaceutical R&D. And this fall Pfizer launched an innovative program to sell drugs at deep discounts to the uninsured and working poor. But with prices still the highest in the world, TV ads blaring and patients complaining, Big Pharma obviously has more work to do. Merck's recent recall of its blockbuster arthritis drug Vioxx, for serious cardiovascular side effects, has only added to the public cynicism, because the company had spent the prior three years pooh-poohing published studies that hinted at exactly those cardiovascular problems and allegedly trying to silence scientists who warned of the dangers. The industry's most common advice to itself is to do a better job of making the points about risk, reward and innovation that it claims the public doesn't understand. Robert Essner, CEO of Wyeth, declared in a speech to the industry last spring that "too often our messages are aimed only at the head and are too easy to brush aside. We are most effective when we also aim our messages at the heart." Actually, while CEOs may prefer the self-image of being too fact-oriented, most critics say the real problem is the opposite: The industry has to do more to get its message out with hard facts, rather than showcasing sexy athletes who use Viagra. Advertisements should have charts showing how much the companies spend on R&D and marketing and how much they make in profit, suggests industry veteran Robert Ehrlich. As the marketing executive who launched the blockbuster cholesterol pill Lipitor at Warner-Lambert and who now runs a direct-to-consumer consulting company, Ehrlich knows how to craft an image campaign. He also urges companies to air more public service announcements about medical conditions and wellness in general, rather than just pitching particular brands. Some experts say CEOs should be out there personally delivering the message. "It implies the importance the corporation attaches to the issue," explains William W. McCutchen Jr., deputy chairman of the management department at Baruch College's Zicklin School of Business in New York City. That would be a historic change for the industry. While hip, young, high-tech chief executives are all over the media, "there were not as many celebrity CEOs in pharmaceuticals," says Alteon's Kenneth Moch. "[The industry] was less oriented to consumer marketing, more intellectual and scientific." Politically, too, Big Pharma must change its M.O. It needs to choose its battles-and when it can't win, it should bow out gracefully, not grudgingly. The war against reimportation is already lost. So are the most egregious attempts to stretch out patents. To skeptics, those suggestions are mere window-dressing. Just ask Abbey Meyers, president of the National Organization for Rare Disorders, an advocacy group for patients with diseases that affect few people, what Big Pharma ought to do, and she has one answer: "Lower your prices." Even marketer Ehrlich offers that "a bold strategy would be, 'Let's cut our prices 30 percent.'" Not only would that solve the image problem, he contends, but it would also increase sales and possibly head off government price controls. Is True Reform Possible? If an across-the-board price cut seems too bold, then Ehrlich and others recommend that the manufacturers broaden their discount programs, which generally have been available only to the elderly poor. They could publicize the programs better, perhaps fatten the discounts, loosen eligibility rules as Pfizer did and set up a coordinated Web site. (A pilot site is being tried in three states.) The problems with health care costs in the U.S. go beyond the bill at the neighborhood pharmacy. "There's no way the pharmaceutical industry, as 10 to 12 percent of total health care spending, can solve the problem," says consultant Ben Hohn. For example, a key issue in this year's presidential election was expanding coverage to the approximately 45 million Americans without health insurance. Big Pharma CEOs could speak out about the issue and use all those Washington lobbyists to urge Congress to pass health care reform. The industry has a business stake in this debate, Hohn points out, because people with insurance can better afford to buy the medicines they need. A growing number of thinkers believe it's simply too late for the industry to reform. There's a fair amount of discussion about radically splitting the whole development process, with biotechs, universities and independent labs doing the R&D and a shrunken Big Pharma handling only manufacturing and marketing. At the least, the giants are being forced to rely more and more on biotechs to churn out genomics-based drugs targeted to smaller markets. Meanwhile, almost everyone expects more government regulation. The conventional wisdom is that inevitably, despite President Bush's opposition, the new Medicare drug law will be amended to allow the government to negotiate prices, and that will lead to overall price controls. Of course, the ultimate solution is for the pharmaceutical companies to do what they claim they want to do: discover important new drugs-real medical innovations, not copycat drugs or treatments for lifestyle problems. "We should not be focusing on our reputations per se," says Vasella of Novartis. "The best thing we can do as an industry is to focus on our mission, which is to help cure patients and ease suffering." Indeed, if drug companies unveiled a more effective treatment for Alzheimer's disease or the holy grail of medicine-a cure for any kind of cancer-that could well be the best medicine for the industry's ailing image. Fran Hawthorne is the author of The Merck Druggernaut (John Wiley & Sons) and the forthcoming Inside the FDA (Wiley). From shovland at mindspring.com Thu Dec 2 04:13:38 2004 From: shovland at mindspring.com (Steve Hovland) Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 20:13:38 -0800 Subject: [Paleopsych] Confessions of an Economic Hit Man Message-ID: <01C4D7E2.3F715830.shovland@mindspring.com> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1576753018/qid=1101960704/sr=2-1/ ref=pd_ka_b_2_1/102-5499145-0469751 >From Publishers Weekly Perkins spent the 1970s working as an economic planner for an international consulting firm, a job that took him to exotic locales like Indonesia and Panama, helping wealthy corporations exploit developing nations as, he claims, a not entirely unwitting front for the National Security Agency. He says he was trained early in his career by a glamorous older woman as one of many "economic hit men" advancing the cause of corporate hegemony. He also says he has wanted to tell his story for the last two decades, but his shadowy masters have either bought him off or threatened him until now. The story as presented is implausible to say the least, offering so few details that Perkins often seems paranoid, and the simplistic political analysis doesn't enhance his credibility. Despite the claim that his work left him wracked with guilt, the artless prose is emotionally flat and generally comes across as a personal crisis of conscience blown up to monstrous proportions, casting Perkins as a victim not only of his own neuroses over class and money but of dark forces beyond his control. His claim to have assisted the House of Saud in strengthening its ties to American power brokers may be timely enough to attract some attention, but the yarn he spins is ultimately unconvincing, except perhaps to conspiracy buffs. Copyright ? Reed Business Information, a division of Reed Elsevier Inc. All rights reserved. Jim Garrison, author, America As Empire, President of the State of the World Forum "John Perkins has written a book that shakes one's confidence in the ethics of the prevailing economic system." Book Description Confessions of an Economic Hit Man reveals a game that, according to John Perkins, is "as old as Empire" but has taken on new and terrifying dimensions in an era of globalization. And Perkins should know. For many years he worked for an international consulting firm where his main job was to convince LDCs (less developed countries) around the world to accept multibillion-dollar loans for infrastructure projects and to see to it that most of this money ended up at Halliburton, Bechtel, Brown and Root, and other United States engineering and construction companies. This book, which many people warned Perkins not to write, is a blistering attack on a little-known phenomenon that has had dire consequences on both the victimized countries and the U.S. From paul.werbos at verizon.net Thu Dec 2 23:31:52 2004 From: paul.werbos at verizon.net (Werbos, Dr. Paul J.) Date: Thu, 02 Dec 2004 18:31:52 -0500 Subject: [Paleopsych] exploration in genetics and other intelligence Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20041202181033.023cd7d0@incoming.verizon.net> Hi, Howard! I was a bit too brief on some important ideas you raised. Let me try to correct that. You said: >Paul's words suggest that restlessness and boredom have been a key part of >this learning system. I've been calling this a restless cosmos, a driven >cosmos, an obsessive compulsive cosmos for a very long time. But Paul is >suggesting that we make computer-based learning machines restless >too. That we make them try out new possibilities just for the hell of it, >just to evade the pain of boredom, the pain of staying precisely the same, >the pain of ennui. Paul is on the brink of suggesting that we make >computational programs hunger for pop culture, for music and games that >test and expand the silicon brain in new ways. > >Paul is suggesting that genes may be as restless and boredom-prone as >Baudelaire, who painted ennui as the ultimate pain. He's suggesting that >on the sly, when they're not working, genes play around and dance in >leisure time. Or at least that's what Paul's ideas inspire in me. > Basically right. Exploration is an unavoidable issue in designing true intelligent systems. >I know that leisure, entertainment, pop culture, art, and play are not >useless. I've known it since I began my 20 years of fieldwork in these >fields--poetry, art, magazine publishing, and finally popular music. Paul >seems to be whispering to me that these cultural expressions may be a >stochastic search for new possibilities. And his words suggest to me that >genes play games too. They play the sort of musical games--establishment >of a theme, then variation on it--that Greg's mechanisms make possible. > >Paul, my apologies if I've bent your words, but they're extraordinarily >evocative. ====================================================== The word "intelligent" has many definitions -- especially in marketing by Beltway Bandits. I have explained at length why I would say that TRUE intelligent systems all involve some kind of optimization... some kind of learning to "best possible results" by some kind of measure of success. Let me not revisit all that just now. (There is a book edited by Dan Levine, Optimality?... and lots of stuff I cite in my papers at arXiv.org, in the quantitative biology part.) Now... in really complex environments, the optimization always comes down to "nonconvex optimization" -- optimization in a situation where there are lots of LOCAL optima, like deceptive foothills on the way to the highest mountain peak. There are actually some very sophisticated and successful engineering systems, which are worthy of being called "intelligent" (I feel, for complex reasons), which do not have a real systematic exploration component. But to be truly brain-like, they need that, in order to perform well in complex nonconvex environments. Conversely, there are some very simple genetic algorithms, not at all brain-like, which do very good nonconvex optimization AT A GIVEN TIME, SUBJECT TO USING NO PRIOR INFORMATION -- but have many limitations. They are very useful in engineering today, in part because no one has implemented anything more truly brain-like for these kinds of applications. (Though I know some people who would say that is changing -- people like Thaler or Wunsch or Serpen.) They are the best state of the art, on the whole, for problems like exploring the space of possible designs for antennas to do specialized tasks as well as possible, and things like that. They are used in the best real-world Optimal Power Flow packages used by electric utility companies. ------------ OK, so exploration is necessary for the higher capabilities... BUT This does not mean that intelligent people have to try drugs or color their hair pink. (Though I have known some who went through that, as most of you have.) In fact -- in my own theory of how the brain works (the part summarized in just a few places, like chapter 10 of my book Roots).. I would say that the essential difference between the wiring of the original basic mouse brain and the wiring of the human brain is that humans don't have to learn form their own mistakes. They have an inborn ability to learn from the mistakes of others instead. And that's where we started our discussions, Howard. I was really hoping that you and David Smith and I could joint author a more popular (or humanistic paper) on the fundamental revision of Freud's theory of dreams implied by this theory of how the wiring works. The claim that our human brains are hard-wired to commonly give us dreams presenting the viewpoints of OTHER humans. The implications are extremely far-reaching in my view, not only for theory but for improving our ability foster human growth, one of the very most fundamental issues on the table in the world. All for now. Best, Paul -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From shovland at mindspring.com Fri Dec 3 04:08:01 2004 From: shovland at mindspring.com (Steve Hovland) Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 20:08:01 -0800 Subject: [Paleopsych] Changing traditions :-) Message-ID: <01C4D8AA.A1315020.shovland@mindspring.com> A traditional liberal is soft-hearted and soft-headed. A traditional conservative is hard-hearted and hard-headed. Is there a middle ground, where you can be soft-hearted and hard-headed, a ground where new conservatives and new liberals can meet? Steve Hovland www.stevehovland.net From anonymous_animus at yahoo.com Fri Dec 3 19:28:53 2004 From: anonymous_animus at yahoo.com (Michael Christopher) Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 11:28:53 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Paleopsych] extremes In-Reply-To: <200412031900.iB3J0D006284@tick.javien.com> Message-ID: <20041203192853.89330.qmail@web13421.mail.yahoo.com> >>Is there a middle ground, where you can be soft-hearted and hard-headed, a ground where new conservatives and new liberals can meet?<< --There is, when people get tired of demonizing and stereotyping each other. Right now, the goodness and rightness of one side is defined in opposition to the badness and wrongness of the other, such that neither side has to actually produce results in order to be seen as right in the eyes of its proponents. It is assumed by many that since "liberal policies have failed miserably" that the policies of conservatives will succeed. Rhetoric and ideology replace observation and testing as the standard for what works and what doesn't. If it gets applause, it is assumed to be right. It will take another round of systemic failure to produce a swing toward the middle and a synthesis of the better ideas of both sides. Ultimately, the system is the problem, not the personalities in it. We need at least one new party to offset the two-party oscillation, and we need a better public understanding of how PR psychology influences crowds. The standard contrast method, by which one politician seems to have integrity in contrast to another's perceived lack of integrity (replace integrity with morals, common sense, backbone, etc), still works very well, and it shouldn't. People should be able to be critical of both sides, without playing the "liberals are amoral and discredited" or "conservatives are scheming and manipulative" cards. It's like falling for the same used car salesman pitch, over and over, knowing all the cars are lemons. Added to that problem is that the news media loves polemics, and has no attention span for deep discussion. Shows like Crossfire are more popular than in-depth reporting. Filtering out complexity produces a system which can only oscillate from one extreme to the other, with very little in the way of pragmatic compromise. Michael __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Send holiday email and support a worthy cause. Do good. http://celebrity.mail.yahoo.com From shovland at mindspring.com Sat Dec 4 16:48:40 2004 From: shovland at mindspring.com (Steve Hovland) Date: Sat, 4 Dec 2004 08:48:40 -0800 Subject: [Paleopsych] extremes Message-ID: <01C4D9DE.0DD2C360.shovland@mindspring.com> My solution to the PR issue is to use the same techniques to attack the well-crafted appeals of the right. Unfortunately, I think the systemic failure is that the voting computers have been hacked. Elections won't mean anything until those systems have much better security at all levels. I don't have any confidence that the Democrats are technical enough to figure it out. Steve Hovland www.stevehovland.net -----Original Message----- From: Michael Christopher [SMTP:anonymous_animus at yahoo.com] Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 11:29 AM To: paleopsych at paleopsych.org Subject: [Paleopsych] extremes >>Is there a middle ground, where you can be soft-hearted and hard-headed, a ground where new conservatives and new liberals can meet?<< --There is, when people get tired of demonizing and stereotyping each other. Right now, the goodness and rightness of one side is defined in opposition to the badness and wrongness of the other, such that neither side has to actually produce results in order to be seen as right in the eyes of its proponents. It is assumed by many that since "liberal policies have failed miserably" that the policies of conservatives will succeed. Rhetoric and ideology replace observation and testing as the standard for what works and what doesn't. If it gets applause, it is assumed to be right. It will take another round of systemic failure to produce a swing toward the middle and a synthesis of the better ideas of both sides. Ultimately, the system is the problem, not the personalities in it. We need at least one new party to offset the two-party oscillation, and we need a better public understanding of how PR psychology influences crowds. The standard contrast method, by which one politician seems to have integrity in contrast to another's perceived lack of integrity (replace integrity with morals, common sense, backbone, etc), still works very well, and it shouldn't. People should be able to be critical of both sides, without playing the "liberals are amoral and discredited" or "conservatives are scheming and manipulative" cards. It's like falling for the same used car salesman pitch, over and over, knowing all the cars are lemons. Added to that problem is that the news media loves polemics, and has no attention span for deep discussion. Shows like Crossfire are more popular than in-depth reporting. Filtering out complexity produces a system which can only oscillate from one extreme to the other, with very little in the way of pragmatic compromise. Michael __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Send holiday email and support a worthy cause. Do good. http://celebrity.mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ paleopsych mailing list paleopsych at paleopsych.org http://lists.paleopsych.org/mailman/listinfo/paleopsych From shovland at mindspring.com Sat Dec 4 17:10:26 2004 From: shovland at mindspring.com (Steve Hovland) Date: Sat, 4 Dec 2004 09:10:26 -0800 Subject: [Paleopsych] The Zeigeist Speaks Message-ID: <01C4D9E1.18CEC6D0.shovland@mindspring.com> Steve Hovland www.stevehovland.net -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 127279 bytes Desc: not available URL: From shovland at mindspring.com Sat Dec 4 17:10:47 2004 From: shovland at mindspring.com (Steve Hovland) Date: Sat, 4 Dec 2004 09:10:47 -0800 Subject: [Paleopsych] Social Security Reform Message-ID: <01C4D9E1.24D8E640.shovland@mindspring.com> Steve Hovland www.stevehovland.net -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 103151 bytes Desc: not available URL: From waluk at earthlink.net Sat Dec 4 17:21:40 2004 From: waluk at earthlink.net (Geraldine Reinhardt) Date: Sat, 4 Dec 2004 09:21:40 -0800 Subject: [Paleopsych] extremes References: <01C4D9DE.0DD2C360.shovland@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <00e401c4da25$b9616730$2003f604@S0027397558> I have a twofold doubt. Firstly that computers will be forsaken for a paper ballot and secondly that the best security system can thwart a would-be hacker. The only solution I see at present is to merge both parties, democrats and republicans, for the more sensitive political spots such as president and vice president. This would eliminate the huge costs associated with national campaigning and would allow those in office the time to concentrate on their jobs rather than their re-elections. Gerry Reinhart-Waller Independent Scholar http://www.home.earthlink.net/~waluk ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Hovland" To: "'The new improved paleopsych list'" Sent: Saturday, December 04, 2004 8:48 AM Subject: RE: [Paleopsych] extremes > My solution to the PR issue is to use > the same techniques to attack the > well-crafted appeals of the right. > > Unfortunately, I think the systemic > failure is that the voting computers > have been hacked. > > Elections won't mean anything until those > systems have much better security > at all levels. > > I don't have any confidence that the Democrats > are technical enough to figure it out. > > Steve Hovland > www.stevehovland.net > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Christopher > [SMTP:anonymous_animus at yahoo.com] > Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 11:29 AM > To: paleopsych at paleopsych.org > Subject: [Paleopsych] extremes > > >>>Is there a middle ground, where you can be > soft-hearted and hard-headed, a ground where new > conservatives and new liberals can meet?<< > > --There is, when people get tired of demonizing and > stereotyping each other. Right now, the goodness and > rightness of one side is defined in opposition to the > badness and wrongness of the other, such that neither > side has to actually produce results in order to be > seen as right in the eyes of its proponents. It is > assumed by many that since "liberal policies have > failed miserably" that the policies of conservatives > will succeed. Rhetoric and ideology replace > observation and testing as the standard for what > works > and what doesn't. If it gets applause, it is assumed > to be right. It will take another round of systemic > failure to produce a swing toward the middle and a > synthesis of the better ideas of both sides. > Ultimately, the system is the problem, not the > personalities in it. We need at least one new party > to > offset the two-party oscillation, and we need a > better > public understanding of how PR psychology influences > crowds. The standard contrast method, by which one > politician seems to have integrity in contrast to > another's perceived lack of integrity (replace > integrity with morals, common sense, backbone, etc), > still works very well, and it shouldn't. People > should > be able to be critical of both sides, without playing > the "liberals are amoral and discredited" or > "conservatives are scheming and manipulative" cards. > It's like falling for the same used car salesman > pitch, over and over, knowing all the cars are > lemons. > > Added to that problem is that the news media loves > polemics, and has no attention span for deep > discussion. Shows like Crossfire are more popular > than > in-depth reporting. Filtering out complexity produces > a system which can only oscillate from one extreme to > the other, with very little in the way of pragmatic > compromise. > > Michael > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Send holiday email and support a worthy cause. Do > good. > http://celebrity.mail.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > paleopsych mailing list > paleopsych at paleopsych.org > http://lists.paleopsych.org/mailman/listinfo/paleopsych > _______________________________________________ > paleopsych mailing list > paleopsych at paleopsych.org > http://lists.paleopsych.org/mailman/listinfo/paleopsych > From paul.werbos at verizon.net Sat Dec 4 17:24:27 2004 From: paul.werbos at verizon.net (Werbos, Dr. Paul J.) Date: Sat, 04 Dec 2004 12:24:27 -0500 Subject: [Paleopsych] Ukraine and gay marriage In-Reply-To: <01C4D9DE.0DD2C360.shovland@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20041204115518.00c4d910@incoming.verizon.net> Good afternoon! No, I am not connecting the two subjects. One after the other. Ukrainia first, since it is more important. ================================================ The current thinking abut the Ukraine in the EC, Russia and the US is a beautiful example of how mindless thoughtless knee-jerk reactions on all sides can allow people to drift into silly weak positions that hurt everyone. Particularly at a time when they all face a very real common terrorist threat, and a lot of unmet opportunities for expanded cooperation... here we are acting like drunken violent sports fans again. It is sad. The sports fan thinks: "Push them back... let the home team win... let's have (EC) or (Russia) won Ukraine. And let it be owned fair and square, a nice unitary government that controls everything." Thomas Jefferson would certainly be upset about the sad state of an educational system that sinks so low. In fact... it is said that Russia fears that Ukraine will be fully integrated both into NATO and into the tight inner core of the EC (with hostility and Exxon control even on its border), while EC and US would want exactly that. So the fate of Ukraine is seen as a zerosum game ... and zerosum games generally end badly. But in reality... SHOULD WE WANT Ukraine to be integrated in that way? Consider that the uncontrolled flow of people over vast borders is already a central security problem for the EC. Is it really in the interest of the EC to be stuck with borders twice as extensive, harder to access? Is it in the security interest of Europe to totally eliminate the Russian security presence in Eastern Ukraine? And is a unitary state such a perfect idea? (I seem to remember a time when they taught some courses where people read from a guy named Rousseau who talked about a tyranny of the majority... and the importance of having a kind of "republic" instead of a pure democracy, to protect minorities.) Instead of fighting for "our" control, Putin and the West should perhaps have some friendlier and more constructive discussions. There is talk in the EC about SOME kind of two-tiered system, where there is a totally free flow of people and goods in the inner tier, but the flow of people is subject to some kind of checks between the outer tier and inner tier, and where the outer tier retains more autonomy. Instead of winning or losing everything on a binary throw of the dice... could there not be some hope of a dialogue aimed at a situation where everyone wins? In fact, could there be some agreement that Ukraine will NOT be a full member of NATO (any more than Russia itself), but that there WILL be an effort towards joint security arrangements involving Russians, NATO and Ukraine addressing some of their common needs? I am reminded a lot of my old PhD thesis adviser, Prof. Karl Deutsch. Karl was a very effective hidden voice behind the kind of dialogue which made the EC possible in the first place. Just as the US should probably remember Jefferson a bit more than it does (yea even Francis Bacon), perhaps the insights of folks like Deutsch (and Schelling) might be considered in EC approaches... On the other hand, I suppose I would recommend caution to Russia in extrapolating too far from what was learned by the Golden Horde... (In fact, what WERE the real lessons learned? The question reminds me of Waley's introduction to the Tao Te Ching...) =========================== As for gay marriage... The entire discussion reminds me of... maybe a scene from Gone With the Wind?.. where people are hysterically worried about which color of blouse to wear even as the gunshots ring out over the hill and there is a war going on. It also reminds me of stage magicians who use distraction to deceive people. And it reminds me of the deep role and history of gay vibes (pro and con, but the same variable) in the long history of the Catholic Church, which is to the new evangelism what the Reds of Moscow were to the pinks of the 30's to 60's. The obsession itself is the disease. This shouldn't be crowding out all other news, one way or another. Those who insist on seeing the future through the Book of Revelations should remember what it says about the city with seven hills, and ask what wave they are being dragged along by. ============= Enough for now. Much more could be said about the second topic, and I apologize WEAKLY for oversimplifying. But then again, it would be an unwise use of time to be more precise and lengthy on that one at this time. Best of luck to us all... Paul From shovland at mindspring.com Sat Dec 4 17:37:17 2004 From: shovland at mindspring.com (Steve Hovland) Date: Sat, 4 Dec 2004 09:37:17 -0800 Subject: [Paleopsych] extremes Message-ID: <01C4D9E4.D8F87930.shovland@mindspring.com> We won't go away from using computers. When I was working on a consulting engagement at SBC I once saw a chart that showed how much computer power it takes to hack various encryption schemes. If you have a supercomputer you can hack anything. The problem is that in the past election there was essentially NO security on the systems. The encryption key for the voting machines was actually programmed into them, and it was a very out-dated, easy-to-hack key. Keep in mind that many organizations are basically incompetent when it comes to computer security. Last year Accenture wrote a $20million system for overseas voting by the military. The DOD refused to use it because the security was too weak. Since good security is possible, one assumes that that it was built to be weak so it could be hacked. Hacking does leave a trail, and there are people who are experts at finding these trails. Steve Hovland www.stevehovland.net -----Original Message----- From: Geraldine Reinhardt [SMTP:waluk at earthlink.net] Sent: Saturday, December 04, 2004 9:22 AM To: The new improved paleopsych list Subject: Re: [Paleopsych] extremes I have a twofold doubt. Firstly that computers will be forsaken for a paper ballot and secondly that the best security system can thwart a would-be hacker. The only solution I see at present is to merge both parties, democrats and republicans, for the more sensitive political spots such as president and vice president. This would eliminate the huge costs associated with national campaigning and would allow those in office the time to concentrate on their jobs rather than their re-elections. Gerry Reinhart-Waller Independent Scholar http://www.home.earthlink.net/~waluk ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Hovland" To: "'The new improved paleopsych list'" Sent: Saturday, December 04, 2004 8:48 AM Subject: RE: [Paleopsych] extremes > My solution to the PR issue is to use > the same techniques to attack the > well-crafted appeals of the right. > > Unfortunately, I think the systemic > failure is that the voting computers > have been hacked. > > Elections won't mean anything until those > systems have much better security > at all levels. > > I don't have any confidence that the Democrats > are technical enough to figure it out. > > Steve Hovland > www.stevehovland.net > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Christopher > [SMTP:anonymous_animus at yahoo.com] > Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 11:29 AM > To: paleopsych at paleopsych.org > Subject: [Paleopsych] extremes > > >>>Is there a middle ground, where you can be > soft-hearted and hard-headed, a ground where new > conservatives and new liberals can meet?<< > > --There is, when people get tired of demonizing and > stereotyping each other. Right now, the goodness and > rightness of one side is defined in opposition to the > badness and wrongness of the other, such that neither > side has to actually produce results in order to be > seen as right in the eyes of its proponents. It is > assumed by many that since "liberal policies have > failed miserably" that the policies of conservatives > will succeed. Rhetoric and ideology replace > observation and testing as the standard for what > works > and what doesn't. If it gets applause, it is assumed > to be right. It will take another round of systemic > failure to produce a swing toward the middle and a > synthesis of the better ideas of both sides. > Ultimately, the system is the problem, not the > personalities in it. We need at least one new party > to > offset the two-party oscillation, and we need a > better > public understanding of how PR psychology influences > crowds. The standard contrast method, by which one > politician seems to have integrity in contrast to > another's perceived lack of integrity (replace > integrity with morals, common sense, backbone, etc), > still works very well, and it shouldn't. People > should > be able to be critical of both sides, without playing > the "liberals are amoral and discredited" or > "conservatives are scheming and manipulative" cards. > It's like falling for the same used car salesman > pitch, over and over, knowing all the cars are > lemons. > > Added to that problem is that the news media loves > polemics, and has no attention span for deep > discussion. Shows like Crossfire are more popular > than > in-depth reporting. Filtering out complexity produces > a system which can only oscillate from one extreme to > the other, with very little in the way of pragmatic > compromise. > > Michael > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Send holiday email and support a worthy cause. Do > good. > http://celebrity.mail.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > paleopsych mailing list > paleopsych at paleopsych.org > http://lists.paleopsych.org/mailman/listinfo/paleopsych > _______________________________________________ > paleopsych mailing list > paleopsych at paleopsych.org > http://lists.paleopsych.org/mailman/listinfo/paleopsych > _______________________________________________ paleopsych mailing list paleopsych at paleopsych.org http://lists.paleopsych.org/mailman/listinfo/paleopsych From anonymous_animus at yahoo.com Sat Dec 4 19:05:23 2004 From: anonymous_animus at yahoo.com (Michael Christopher) Date: Sat, 4 Dec 2004 11:05:23 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Paleopsych] PR in politics In-Reply-To: <200412041900.iB4J0W025434@tick.javien.com> Message-ID: <20041204190523.27904.qmail@web13424.mail.yahoo.com> >>My solution to the PR issue is to use the same techniques to attack the well-crafted appeals of the right.<< --It won't work for Democrats to copy the PR techniques used by the Right, if they do they will be accused of "crafting an image" as Kerry was accused of posturing on every issue. Instead, those techniques have to be exposed and parodied. That's why the Daily Show works so well. Instead of merely attacking the Right, it parodies the techniques they used to gain power. Michael __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo From shovland at mindspring.com Sat Dec 4 16:56:12 2004 From: shovland at mindspring.com (Steve Hovland) Date: Sat, 4 Dec 2004 08:56:12 -0800 Subject: [Paleopsych] The Zeigeist Speaks Message-ID: <01C4D9DF.1BAF1550.shovland@mindspring.com> Steve Hovland www.stevehovland.net -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 127279 bytes Desc: not available URL: From shovland at mindspring.com Sat Dec 4 17:09:34 2004 From: shovland at mindspring.com (Steve Hovland) Date: Sat, 4 Dec 2004 09:09:34 -0800 Subject: [Paleopsych] Social Security Reform Message-ID: <01C4D9E0.F95B52F0.shovland@mindspring.com> Steve Hovland www.stevehovland.net -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 103151 bytes Desc: not available URL: From shovland at mindspring.com Sat Dec 4 21:00:41 2004 From: shovland at mindspring.com (Steve Hovland) Date: Sat, 4 Dec 2004 13:00:41 -0800 Subject: [Paleopsych] PR in politics Message-ID: <01C4DA01.42CBA000.shovland@mindspring.com> Humor can be very effective. In the Republican camp they refer to it as "the slippery slope." If you can make an effective joke about something you damage it. Steve Hovland www.stevehovland.net -----Original Message----- From: Michael Christopher [SMTP:anonymous_animus at yahoo.com] Sent: Saturday, December 04, 2004 11:05 AM To: paleopsych at paleopsych.org Subject: [Paleopsych] PR in politics >>My solution to the PR issue is to use the same techniques to attack the well-crafted appeals of the right.<< --It won't work for Democrats to copy the PR techniques used by the Right, if they do they will be accused of "crafting an image" as Kerry was accused of posturing on every issue. Instead, those techniques have to be exposed and parodied. That's why the Daily Show works so well. Instead of merely attacking the Right, it parodies the techniques they used to gain power. Michael __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo _______________________________________________ paleopsych mailing list paleopsych at paleopsych.org http://lists.paleopsych.org/mailman/listinfo/paleopsych -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 157009 bytes Desc: not available URL: From shovland at mindspring.com Mon Dec 6 05:18:48 2004 From: shovland at mindspring.com (Steve Hovland) Date: Sun, 5 Dec 2004 21:18:48 -0800 Subject: [Paleopsych] Functional MR Imaging of Visual Processing: Developmental Aspects and Brain Plasticity. Message-ID: <01C4DB10.0394F570.shovland@mindspring.com> http://www.research-projects.unizh.ch/med/unit41900/area173/p248.htm with applications to propaganda? skh a) Visual processing in neonates, infants and children: Subcortical structures appear to play an important role in processing visual in neonates and infants. In the present study, subcortical activity has been observed in a minority of infants, children and adults alike, suggesting that the subcortical structures play an important role in visual perception from birth until adulthood. b) Development of functional subsystems in the human visual cortex: We are investigating the development of both the primary visual cortex (striate cortex or V1) and the extra-striate cortical visual areas V4 and MT/V5. In the former we are following the emergence of the topographical representation and in the latter our research efforts are centred on the emergence of specialisation of function. Awake children, aged 8 years and older and anaesthetised infants and young children, ran ging from birth to 6 years are investigated in conjunction with a diagnostic MR imaging session. In addition, we are investigating the effect of different levels of anaesthesia on the fMRI signal in children. This study will provide us with an insight into the differential effect of development and depth of anaesthesia on the observed fMRI signal. c) Neuronal plasticity of the human visual cortex: We are investigating the difference in neuronal plasticity in the developing and the mature CNS by generating topographical activity maps of the primary visual cortex. Any reparative process following insult should be visible in the topography of V1 as observed by our topographical activity mapping. d) Cue integration and higher visual processing: The visual system appears to be organised into a dorsal pathway, dealing with motion and spatial information and the ventral pathway dealing with form and colour information. Our pilot experiments with FMRI reveal the cortical visual areas involved in the processing of such stimuli. e) Influence of sedative / anaesthesia (in particular the anaesthetic depths) on the cerebral response: Investigation of the influence on neural metabolism and on changes of the blood flow, which modulate the functional MRI (BOLD) signal. f) Visual perception involves the grouping of individual elements into coherent patterns that reduce the descriptive complexity of a visual scene. We investigate the cognitive basis of this perceptual simplification in younger children. g) Emphasis of the project in the last year was to investigate the hypothesis that the hemodynamic response to cortical activity does not show a pseudo-linear behaviour but corresponds to a two-stage model (on-off). Publications Martin E, Joeri P, Loenneker T, Ekatodramis D, Vitacco D, Hennig J, Marcar V. Visual Processing in Infants and Children studied using functional MRI. Pediatr Res, 8:1-6, 1999. Martin E, Joeri P, Loenneker Th, Thiel T, Ekatodramis D, Huisman T, Hennig J, Marcar VL. The effect of pentobarbital on visual processing in man. Human Brain Mapping, 10(2), 2000. Valentine L. Marcar, Andrea Straessle, Franck Girard, Thomas Loenneker and Ernst Martin. When more means less: a paradox BOLD response in human visual cortex. MRI, 22 (4): 441-597, 2004. Index Terms functional MRI, visual processing, infants, children, brain development Contacts Dr. V. Marcar (Project Leader) Valentin.Marcar at kispi.unizh.ch Prof. E. Martin-Fiori (Project Leader) ernst.martin at kispi.unizh.ch Dr. Th. Loenneker thomas.loenneker at kispi.unizh.ch Th. Dietrich thomas.dietrich at kispi.unizh.ch From shovland at mindspring.com Mon Dec 6 05:24:31 2004 From: shovland at mindspring.com (Steve Hovland) Date: Sun, 5 Dec 2004 21:24:31 -0800 Subject: [Paleopsych] THE BRAIN VISUAL CORTEX AND OSCILLATORY NEURAL NETWORKS Message-ID: <01C4DB10.CFEEA620.shovland@mindspring.com> http://www.keldysh.ru/pages/dpt_7/NNModel/kuz_files/lecture.htm 1. Introduction 1.1 Traditional Methods of Visual Image Processing. Shortcomings. 1.2 Neuromorphic Methods. Advantages. 1.3 Visual Image segmentation Task: Posing of the Problem. 2. The Brain Visual System: Brief Neurophysiological Data. 2.1 The Visual Pathway: Retina, LGN, the Visual Cortex (VC). 2.2 Main Propetrties of Primary Visual Cortex: RFs, Columns, Connections. 2.3 The Role of Synchronized Oscillations in VC and in the Other Brain Structures. Experiments. Associative Binding. 2.4 Some Other Features of the Brain Visual System. 3. Models of VC 3.1 Different Levels of Modelling. Neural Oscillator. 3.2 Models, Based on Networks of Spiking Neurons. 3.3 Oscillatory Network Models. 3.4 The Model under Development: Tunable Oscillatory Network with Self-organized Dynamical Connections and Synchronization-Based Performance. 4. Method of Visual Image Segmentation Based on Cluster Synchronization of Oscillatory Network. 4.1 Reduced Network, Obtained from the Oscillatory Model of VC. 4.2 Method of Adaptation of Connections. Successive Cluster Synchronization of the Network. 4.3 Computer Realization of the Method. Experiments. 4.4 Advantages of the Algorithm. Futher Perspectives. 5. Concluding Remarks. Abilities of Neuromorphic Models. From he at psychology.su.se Mon Dec 6 16:51:19 2004 From: he at psychology.su.se (Hannes Eisler) Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 17:51:19 +0100 Subject: [Paleopsych] the welfare state In-Reply-To: <01C4D563.AED9E290.shovland@mindspring.com> References: <01C4D563.AED9E290.shovland@mindspring.com> Message-ID: >I doubt that the existence of a social safety >net has much effect on the will to work. Things are a bit more complicated. When the sick insurance waiting (or deferring) period decreased from three days to one day the frequency of sickness increased conspicuously. (For a short time of sickness you don't need a physician's attest.) Have people being going to work with, e.g., a slight cold before, or are they more disposed to discover their own cold now? What is unbelievable, particularly so to Americans, I guess, is that sick leave under certain conditions is used instead of strikes (the unions declare that the present working conditions with so little pay entails diseases). Also a person accused of, e.g., fraud, might not be discharged directly but urged to take a sick leave. Furthermore, sick pay exceeds unemployment pay, so there is a trend to replace one by the other, which also keeps the unemployment figures lower. All this is, of course, examples of misuse, the frequency of it being discussed. > >Sure people work to survive, but Maslow >still means something. I suspect that the >highest levels of achievement have very little >to do with money. A certain number of youngsters prefer travelling, etc., to working, delaying the beginning of the "achieving time." This is the opposite of many adult women who are looking at their career and postpone childbearing. > > >Many people such as great teachers function >at a very high level for relatively little money. Right. And cleaning women are forced to. > >As one rich man said, once you have that >first million, every succeeding million means >less and less. Then why continue? Because >it's no longer the money. It may very well be >the satisfaction of doing things. Rich people very often compare their relative income. If your neighbor earns ten millions you want to make at least eleven without pondering what to do with the money.(Evidence that you are the more able?) > >It may be that only a small percentage of mentally >ill people can never satisfy their hunger for money. A new definition of mentally ill. In summary: In spite of all drawbacks I am for a welfare state, but a well-balanced one, one that is not built on pure ideology, but one that is based on psychological knowledge in order not to go awry. Still, I don't want to be confronted on the street with homeless people, neither with beggars, nor with robbers. And I don't care whether they themselves are responsible for their misery. So I pay my taxes dutifully, though often wondering whether they are used optimally. > >Steve Hovland >www.stevehovland.net > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Lynn D. Johnson, Ph.D. [SMTP:ljohnson at solution-consulting.com] >Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2004 3:52 PM >To: The new improved paleopsych list >Subject: Re: [Paleopsych] the welfare state > >Very thoughtful comments. The key here is that welfare state politics is >a long-term experiment, with some serious consequences if youth do lose >the desire to work. Like the cartoon about two scientists, one is >saying, "It very well may produce immortality, but it will take forever >to test it!" > >Hannes Eisler wrote: > >> Living in a welfare state myself I have a few comments. >> First, we have to distinguish different groups. One group consists of >> people who cannot help themselves: mentally ill, retarded, alcoholics, >> junkies, etc. >> To be brutal: I don't want to see them running around on the street >> and perish. >> But also as a fellowman I want to help them, not privately but by >> gladly paying taxes. >> Second: The welfare state's intention is to redistribute your (own) >> income over your life cycle. An example: You get paid a certain amount >> for every child (from your taxes) as long as children are dear (in >> more than one meaning); when they are grown up and do not cost anymore >> your taxes are considered a repayment. This is valid for all citizens, >> though no personal humiliation. It works automatically. > > Sickness is something similar; you pay only a part of the costs of >> visits to physicians and medicines. However, as a healthy individual >> you can earn money and pay taxes, so the government (i.e., the >> taxpayers) may make a profit. >> Finally there is a group whose income does not cover their living >> expenses, or people who cannot handle money. Again, part of them may >> have gotten into some kind of trouble, say having become a victim to a >> fraud, and need some monetary help. For them there is another kind of >> social welfare; they have to ask the pertinent authority in person >> with all the entailing humiliation. But this is only a small part of >> the Swedish welfare state. >> But there is some trouble ahead. Many young people (according to >> interviews) don't place work as central in their lives as their >> parents and grandparents did. And many people claim to be sick when >> just feeling bad (not an outright cheat) which raises the amount of >> costs to unbearable high levels. >> We shall see how the welfare state will develop. As yet cannot Sweden >> be compared to the pre-Thatcher UK as Lynn Johnson described it. >> I may add: when I was about ten years old I thought it a shame to work >> for money--note: not to work in itself, but to earn money for a living. > > >_______________________________________________ >paleopsych mailing list >paleopsych at paleopsych.org >http://lists.paleopsych.org/mailman/listinfo/paleopsych >_______________________________________________ >paleopsych mailing list >paleopsych at paleopsych.org >http://lists.paleopsych.org/mailman/listinfo/paleopsych -- ------------------------------------- Prof. Hannes Eisler Department of Psychology Stockholm University S-106 91 Stockholm Sweden e-mail: he at psychology.su.se fax : +46-8-15 93 42 phone : +46-8-163967 (university) +46-8-6409982 (home) internet: http://www.psychology.su.se/staff/he From shovland at mindspring.com Mon Dec 6 18:33:37 2004 From: shovland at mindspring.com (Steve Hovland) Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 10:33:37 -0800 Subject: [Paleopsych] Visual processing and propaganda Message-ID: <01C4DB7F.0CA44C00.shovland@mindspring.com> At any point in time, our state of mind is similar to a neural net that has been trained. The effect of any new learning input depends on how far those inputs deviate from the average- data with greater deviation affects the state more than data with less deviation. Visual processing by life forms is much, much older than verbal processing, and may be much more efficient for that reason. The visual system might be compared to a massively parallel computer, able to take in large amounts of data at once and process it quickly. Effective propaganda relies mostly on images to take advantage of the ancient power of vision. If words are used they will be so few in number that they function mainly as images. Propaganda pieces that deviate too widely from the current state of the viewer's mind may be rejected, so it may be useful to proceed by small steps. Steve Hovland www.stevehovland.net From anonymous_animus at yahoo.com Mon Dec 6 19:16:12 2004 From: anonymous_animus at yahoo.com (Michael Christopher) Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 11:16:12 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Paleopsych] symbols In-Reply-To: <200412061900.iB6J07031855@tick.javien.com> Message-ID: <20041206191612.80725.qmail@web13423.mail.yahoo.com> >>Effective propaganda relies mostly on images to take advantage of the ancient power of vision. If words are used they will be so few in number that they function mainly as images.<< --Good point. Music video also has a powerful entrainment effect, although there are fewer singing dictators. Dictators tend to be too perfectionistic to sing. I always liked how political messages were embedded in nursery rhymes and children's games. What a great way for an underground to communicate to each other. Dictators never listen to children. :) >>Propaganda pieces that deviate too widely from the current state of the viewer's mind may be rejected, so it may be useful to proceed by small steps.<< --Also, propaganda depends a lot on words that may have personal meanings to the listener, but which allow him to view his feelings as if they were shared with all others (much of popular music shares that quality of "abstract specificity", so that millions of people can think "that song was meant for me!") What does "freedom" mean in concrete terms? Freedom to do what? Freedom in what contexts? What does "honor" mean? Is it loyalty to truth or loyalty to a group? It is by trial and error (sometimes painful trials and catastrophic errors) that the real meaning of words is carved out. "Freedom" comes to mean "freedom for some, not so much for others" and "honor" comes to mean "doing whatever avoids the appearance of weakness". Symbols are degraded when they become tainted by association with mistakes, with weakness, or with guilt. Much of our behavior as a mass relates to the need to cleanse symbols of negative associations. Hitler was obsessed with cleansing symbols of German superiority, and he gave a generation of children raised with authoritarian coldness and perfectionism a chance to let their ids rip in service to the superego. Jews, Communists and homosexuals became the children to be punished in order to purify German society of its dishonor and humiliation. We go through similar cycles still, in less dramatic ways. We still need to detoxify our symbols at the expense of a shamed group. By the end of a revolution, everyone is fighting, because the words and signals they relied upon to signal unity become fragmented and altered and no longer have the same resonant call. The question is, are there symbols that relate so deeply to feelings of community and shared goals that they don't degrade over time as systems turn inward upon themselves? How do we signal the kind of unity we need in order to end religious and civil wars and prevent cycles of humiliation and punishment from becoming genocides and nuclear/biological crusades? What role could advertising, entertainment or religion play in the generation of new symbols, the healing of old ones, and the unification of groups and goals across cultural divisions? Michael __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The all-new My Yahoo! - Get yours free! http://my.yahoo.com From shovland at mindspring.com Mon Dec 6 20:01:35 2004 From: shovland at mindspring.com (Steve Hovland) Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 12:01:35 -0800 Subject: [Paleopsych] symbols Message-ID: <01C4DB8B.5652F1B0.shovland@mindspring.com> One way to promote unity and a shift to the left is to use family metaphors as often as the right does. We can associate progressive projects with family values without specifying whether the family in question is "strict father" or "nurturing parents" in orientation (see Lakoff about these models.) One thing that is very interesting about this is that these associations do not have to be logical in the sense of verbal logic. They may in fact be a-logical, with no connection other than their appearance in the same picture or sentence. Many people on the left don't understand why a lot of people think that Iraq and 911 are connected. The reason is that the Republicans were advised by Frank Luntz to include a reference to 911 at the beginning of every speech they gave about Iraq. Strangely enough, the Pres reinforces this nonexistent connection even when he says that there is no connection between Iraq and 911. The mere appearance in the same sentence gives the impression that there is a connection. There must be a technical term for this in cognitive science- something to do with associative memory. Steve Hovland www.stevehovland.net -----Original Message----- From: Michael Christopher [SMTP:anonymous_animus at yahoo.com] Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 11:16 AM To: paleopsych at paleopsych.org Subject: [Paleopsych] symbols >>Effective propaganda relies mostly on images to take advantage of the ancient power of vision. If words are used they will be so few in number that they function mainly as images.<< --Good point. Music video also has a powerful entrainment effect, although there are fewer singing dictators. Dictators tend to be too perfectionistic to sing. I always liked how political messages were embedded in nursery rhymes and children's games. What a great way for an underground to communicate to each other. Dictators never listen to children. :) >>Propaganda pieces that deviate too widely from the current state of the viewer's mind may be rejected, so it may be useful to proceed by small steps.<< --Also, propaganda depends a lot on words that may have personal meanings to the listener, but which allow him to view his feelings as if they were shared with all others (much of popular music shares that quality of "abstract specificity", so that millions of people can think "that song was meant for me!") What does "freedom" mean in concrete terms? Freedom to do what? Freedom in what contexts? What does "honor" mean? Is it loyalty to truth or loyalty to a group? It is by trial and error (sometimes painful trials and catastrophic errors) that the real meaning of words is carved out. "Freedom" comes to mean "freedom for some, not so much for others" and "honor" comes to mean "doing whatever avoids the appearance of weakness". Symbols are degraded when they become tainted by association with mistakes, with weakness, or with guilt. Much of our behavior as a mass relates to the need to cleanse symbols of negative associations. Hitler was obsessed with cleansing symbols of German superiority, and he gave a generation of children raised with authoritarian coldness and perfectionism a chance to let their ids rip in service to the superego. Jews, Communists and homosexuals became the children to be punished in order to purify German society of its dishonor and humiliation. We go through similar cycles still, in less dramatic ways. We still need to detoxify our symbols at the expense of a shamed group. By the end of a revolution, everyone is fighting, because the words and signals they relied upon to signal unity become fragmented and altered and no longer have the same resonant call. The question is, are there symbols that relate so deeply to feelings of community and shared goals that they don't degrade over time as systems turn inward upon themselves? How do we signal the kind of unity we need in order to end religious and civil wars and prevent cycles of humiliation and punishment from becoming genocides and nuclear/biological crusades? What role could advertising, entertainment or religion play in the generation of new symbols, the healing of old ones, and the unification of groups and goals across cultural divisions? Michael __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The all-new My Yahoo! - Get yours free! http://my.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ paleopsych mailing list paleopsych at paleopsych.org http://lists.paleopsych.org/mailman/listinfo/paleopsych From shovland at mindspring.com Mon Dec 6 20:08:17 2004 From: shovland at mindspring.com (Steve Hovland) Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 12:08:17 -0800 Subject: [Paleopsych] progressive use of family Message-ID: <01C4DB8C.458BA2E0.shovland@mindspring.com> Steve Hovland www.stevehovland.net -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 116160 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ljohnson at solution-consulting.com Tue Dec 7 02:03:44 2004 From: ljohnson at solution-consulting.com (Lynn D. Johnson, Ph.D.) Date: Mon, 06 Dec 2004 19:03:44 -0700 Subject: [Paleopsych] the welfare state In-Reply-To: References: <01C4D563.AED9E290.shovland@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <41B50F80.9030507@solution-consulting.com> Dr Eisler is pointing out some of the dilemmas to the welfare state. What kind of behavior do we want to support? What reward system will promote those behaviors? I think it is to society's advantage that everyone capable of productive work be contributing to society. That certainly made Hong Kong an amazing place. That is my fear of welfare state politics, they are controlled by self-interest pressure groups, not by the wisest principles of reinforcement. All systems seem to have unplanned consequences built in, so there must be a constant re-evaluation and change system. Capitalism has that without any government control (at least, that is how I see it) but socialism and the like requires a strong counterbalance. Look at the USA's problem with Social Security. There is no question we are headed over a cliff here, since short term has ruled the thinking of our legislators. But no one has the courage to do what needs to be done. Bush is excoriated for his half-baked suggestion, but the left provides no real alternative. MEdicare is another disaster, waiting to fall in on us. Thanks, Hannes, for your thoughts. Lynn Hannes Eisler wrote: >> I doubt that the existence of a social safety >> net has much effect on the will to work. > > > Things are a bit more complicated. When the sick insurance waiting (or > deferring) period decreased from three days to one day the frequency > of sickness increased conspicuously. (For a short time of sickness you > don't need a physician's attest.) Have people being going to work > with, e.g., a slight cold before, or are they more disposed to > discover their own cold now? > What is unbelievable, particularly so to Americans, I guess, is that > sick leave under certain conditions is used instead of strikes (the > unions declare that the present working conditions with so little pay > entails diseases). Also a person accused of, e.g., fraud, might not be > discharged directly but urged to take a sick leave. Furthermore, sick > pay exceeds unemployment pay, so there is a trend to replace one by > the other, which also keeps the unemployment figures lower. All this > is, of course, examples of misuse, the frequency of it being discussed. > >> >> Sure people work to survive, but Maslow >> still means something. I suspect that the >> highest levels of achievement have very little >> to do with money. > > > A certain number of youngsters prefer travelling, etc., to working, > delaying the beginning of the "achieving time." This is the opposite > of many adult women who are looking at their career and postpone > childbearing. > >> >> >> Many people such as great teachers function >> at a very high level for relatively little money. > > > Right. And cleaning women are forced to. > >> >> As one rich man said, once you have that >> first million, every succeeding million means >> less and less. Then why continue? Because >> it's no longer the money. It may very well be >> the satisfaction of doing things. > > > Rich people very often compare their relative income. If your neighbor > earns ten millions you want to make at least eleven without pondering > what to do with the money.(Evidence that you are the more able?) > >> >> It may be that only a small percentage of mentally >> ill people can never satisfy their hunger for money. > > > A new definition of mentally ill. > > In summary: In spite of all drawbacks I am for a welfare state, but a > well-balanced one, one that is not built on pure ideology, but one > that is based on psychological knowledge in order not to go awry. > Still, I don't want to be confronted on the street with homeless > people, neither with beggars, nor with robbers. And I don't care > whether they themselves are responsible for their misery. So I pay my > taxes dutifully, though often wondering whether they are used optimally. > > >> >> Steve Hovland >> www.stevehovland.net >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Lynn D. Johnson, Ph.D. [SMTP:ljohnson at solution-consulting.com] >> Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2004 3:52 PM >> To: The new improved paleopsych list >> Subject: Re: [Paleopsych] the welfare state >> >> Very thoughtful comments. The key here is that welfare state politics is >> a long-term experiment, with some serious consequences if youth do lose >> the desire to work. Like the cartoon about two scientists, one is >> saying, "It very well may produce immortality, but it will take forever >> to test it!" >> >> Hannes Eisler wrote: >> >>> Living in a welfare state myself I have a few comments. >>> First, we have to distinguish different groups. One group consists of >>> people who cannot help themselves: mentally ill, retarded, alcoholics, >>> junkies, etc. >>> To be brutal: I don't want to see them running around on the street >>> and perish. >>> But also as a fellowman I want to help them, not privately but by >>> gladly paying taxes. >>> Second: The welfare state's intention is to redistribute your (own) >>> income over your life cycle. An example: You get paid a certain amount >>> for every child (from your taxes) as long as children are dear (in >>> more than one meaning); when they are grown up and do not cost anymore >>> your taxes are considered a repayment. This is valid for all citizens, >>> though no personal humiliation. It works automatically. >> >> > Sickness is something similar; you pay only a part of the costs of >> >>> visits to physicians and medicines. However, as a healthy individual >>> you can earn money and pay taxes, so the government (i.e., the >>> taxpayers) may make a profit. >>> Finally there is a group whose income does not cover their living >>> expenses, or people who cannot handle money. Again, part of them may >>> have gotten into some kind of trouble, say having become a victim to a >>> fraud, and need some monetary help. For them there is another kind of >>> social welfare; they have to ask the pertinent authority in person >>> with all the entailing humiliation. But this is only a small part of >>> the Swedish welfare state. >>> But there is some trouble ahead. Many young people (according to >>> interviews) don't place work as central in their lives as their >>> parents and grandparents did. And many people claim to be sick when >>> just feeling bad (not an outright cheat) which raises the amount of >>> costs to unbearable high levels. >>> We shall see how the welfare state will develop. As yet cannot Sweden >>> be compared to the pre-Thatcher UK as Lynn Johnson described it. >>> I may add: when I was about ten years old I thought it a shame to work >>> for money--note: not to work in itself, but to earn money for a >>> living. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> paleopsych mailing list >> paleopsych at paleopsych.org >> http://lists.paleopsych.org/mailman/listinfo/paleopsych >> _______________________________________________ >> paleopsych mailing list >> paleopsych at paleopsych.org >> http://lists.paleopsych.org/mailman/listinfo/paleopsych > > > From shovland at mindspring.com Tue Dec 7 03:32:07 2004 From: shovland at mindspring.com (Steve Hovland) Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 19:32:07 -0800 Subject: [Paleopsych] the welfare state Message-ID: <01C4DBCA.46E906D0.shovland@mindspring.com> The real way to fix Social Security is to raise the retirement age, which would require a major expenditure of political capital :-) When Germany set up their pension system the life expectancy was 67 years, so they figured a retirement age of 65 wouldn't break the bank. Now that many people live decades beyond 65, we simply can't afford it, nor should we. Steve Hovland www.stevehovland.net -----Original Message----- From: Lynn D. Johnson, Ph.D. [SMTP:ljohnson at solution-consulting.com] Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 6:04 PM To: The new improved paleopsych list Subject: Re: [Paleopsych] the welfare state Dr Eisler is pointing out some of the dilemmas to the welfare state. What kind of behavior do we want to support? What reward system will promote those behaviors? I think it is to society's advantage that everyone capable of productive work be contributing to society. That certainly made Hong Kong an amazing place. That is my fear of welfare state politics, they are controlled by self-interest pressure groups, not by the wisest principles of reinforcement. All systems seem to have unplanned consequences built in, so there must be a constant re-evaluation and change system. Capitalism has that without any government control (at least, that is how I see it) but socialism and the like requires a strong counterbalance. Look at the USA's problem with Social Security. There is no question we are headed over a cliff here, since short term has ruled the thinking of our legislators. But no one has the courage to do what needs to be done. Bush is excoriated for his half-baked suggestion, but the left provides no real alternative. MEdicare is another disaster, waiting to fall in on us. Thanks, Hannes, for your thoughts. Lynn Hannes Eisler wrote: >> I doubt that the existence of a social safety >> net has much effect on the will to work. > > > Things are a bit more complicated. When the sick insurance waiting (or > deferring) period decreased from three days to one day the frequency > of sickness increased conspicuously. (For a short time of sickness you > don't need a physician's attest.) Have people being going to work > with, e.g., a slight cold before, or are they more disposed to > discover their own cold now? > What is unbelievable, particularly so to Americans, I guess, is that > sick leave under certain conditions is used instead of strikes (the > unions declare that the present working conditions with so little pay > entails diseases). Also a person accused of, e.g., fraud, might not be > discharged directly but urged to take a sick leave. Furthermore, sick > pay exceeds unemployment pay, so there is a trend to replace one by > the other, which also keeps the unemployment figures lower. All this > is, of course, examples of misuse, the frequency of it being discussed. > >> >> Sure people work to survive, but Maslow >> still means something. I suspect that the >> highest levels of achievement have very little >> to do with money. > > > A certain number of youngsters prefer travelling, etc., to working, > delaying the beginning of the "achieving time." This is the opposite > of many adult women who are looking at their career and postpone > childbearing. > >> >> >> Many people such as great teachers function >> at a very high level for relatively little money. > > > Right. And cleaning women are forced to. > >> >> As one rich man said, once you have that >> first million, every succeeding million means >> less and less. Then why continue? Because >> it's no longer the money. It may very well be >> the satisfaction of doing things. > > > Rich people very often compare their relative income. If your neighbor > earns ten millions you want to make at least eleven without pondering > what to do with the money.(Evidence that you are the more able?) > >> >> It may be that only a small percentage of mentally >> ill people can never satisfy their hunger for money. > > > A new definition of mentally ill. > > In summary: In spite of all drawbacks I am for a welfare state, but a > well-balanced one, one that is not built on pure ideology, but one > that is based on psychological knowledge in order not to go awry. > Still, I don't want to be confronted on the street with homeless > people, neither with beggars, nor with robbers. And I don't care > whether they themselves are responsible for their misery. So I pay my > taxes dutifully, though often wondering whether they are used optimally. > > >> >> Steve Hovland >> www.stevehovland.net >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Lynn D. Johnson, Ph.D. [SMTP:ljohnson at solution-consulting.com] >> Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2004 3:52 PM >> To: The new improved paleopsych list >> Subject: Re: [Paleopsych] the welfare state >> >> Very thoughtful comments. The key here is that welfare state politics is >> a long-term experiment, with some serious consequences if youth do lose >> the desire to work. Like the cartoon about two scientists, one is >> saying, "It very well may produce immortality, but it will take forever >> to test it!" >> >> Hannes Eisler wrote: >> >>> Living in a welfare state myself I have a few comments. >>> First, we have to distinguish different groups. One group consists of >>> people who cannot help themselves: mentally ill, retarded, alcoholics, >>> junkies, etc. >>> To be brutal: I don't want to see them running around on the street >>> and perish. >>> But also as a fellowman I want to help them, not privately but by >>> gladly paying taxes. >>> Second: The welfare state's intention is to redistribute your (own) >>> income over your life cycle. An example: You get paid a certain amount >>> for every child (from your taxes) as long as children are dear (in >>> more than one meaning); when they are grown up and do not cost anymore >>> your taxes are considered a repayment. This is valid for all citizens, >>> though no personal humiliation. It works automatically. >> >> > Sickness is something similar; you pay only a part of the costs of >> >>> visits to physicians and medicines. However, as a healthy individual >>> you can earn money and pay taxes, so the government (i.e., the >>> taxpayers) may make a profit. >>> Finally there is a group whose income does not cover their living >>> expenses, or people who cannot handle money. Again, part of them may >>> have gotten into some kind of trouble, say having become a victim to a >>> fraud, and need some monetary help. For them there is another kind of >>> social welfare; they have to ask the pertinent authority in person >>> with all the entailing humiliation. But this is only a small part of >>> the Swedish welfare state. >>> But there is some trouble ahead. Many young people (according to >>> interviews) don't place work as central in their lives as their >>> parents and grandparents did. And many people claim to be sick when >>> just feeling bad (not an outright cheat) which raises the amount of >>> costs to unbearable high levels. >>> We shall see how the welfare state will develop. As yet cannot Sweden >>> be compared to the pre-Thatcher UK as Lynn Johnson described it. >>> I may add: when I was about ten years old I thought it a shame to work >>> for money--note: not to work in itself, but to earn money for a >>> living. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> paleopsych mailing list >> paleopsych at paleopsych.org >> http://lists.paleopsych.org/mailman/listinfo/paleopsych >> _______________________________________________ >> paleopsych mailing list >> paleopsych at paleopsych.org >> http://lists.paleopsych.org/mailman/listinfo/paleopsych > > > _______________________________________________ paleopsych mailing list paleopsych at paleopsych.org http://lists.paleopsych.org/mailman/listinfo/paleopsych From ljohnson at solution-consulting.com Tue Dec 7 04:17:49 2004 From: ljohnson at solution-consulting.com (Lynn D. Johnson, Ph.D.) Date: Mon, 06 Dec 2004 21:17:49 -0700 Subject: [Paleopsych] the welfare state In-Reply-To: <01C4DBCA.46E906D0.shovland@mindspring.com> References: <01C4DBCA.46E906D0.shovland@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <41B52EED.9060705@solution-consulting.com> Agreed, excellent point, although the Bush plan still offers a number of advantages, mostly that when you take the money away from politicians and invest it: 1. The economy is helped by greater capital being available for growth, and 2. The politicans can't spend it like they did the falsely-named social security trust fund. All that money is gone, spent, and nothing buy IOUs left. Pork like Japan's pork that has bankrupted that government, nothing to show for it. 3. The money really does belong to the person who earned it, not to government bureaucrats. The reason welfare states don't work is precisely because Steve's logical idea, sound in principle and practice, is not being adopted. Policy based on pressure groups, not on principle. The failure to adopt makes me more libertarian in outlook, distrusting government because of the lack of accountability. "government doesn't solve problems, it subsidizes them." R. R. Lynn Steve Hovland wrote: >The real way to fix Social Security is to raise >the retirement age, which would require a >major expenditure of political capital :-) > >When Germany set up their pension system >the life expectancy was 67 years, so they >figured a retirement age of 65 wouldn't break >the bank. > >Now that many people live decades beyond >65, we simply can't afford it, nor should we. > >Steve Hovland >www.stevehovland.net > > From shovland at mindspring.com Tue Dec 7 05:11:20 2004 From: shovland at mindspring.com (Steve Hovland) Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 21:11:20 -0800 Subject: [Paleopsych] the welfare state Message-ID: <01C4DBD8.223230B0.shovland@mindspring.com> The Bush plan takes money away from politicians and gives it to his friends in Wall Street. I don't see much difference. The economy is not suffering from a lack of investment. If you check up on capital spending you will find that Bush's tax cuts did not translate into a surge in investment. The economy is suffering from a lack of consumer spending, which we now see in the form of the lackluster results so far in the Christmas season. With half of the personal income in this country going to the top 20%, and after so many paychecks were sent overseas, many people simply don't have the money to make this a profitable season. If we have some privatization of Social Security, most of the money will go to reflate the value of existing stock, not to fund new ventures. Once the stock is reinflated, the big guys will come in and skim the cream, as they have so often in the past. Right now Wall Street is nervous because the Baby Boomers feel like their pockets have been picked one time too many and we are staying away in droves. With the exception of the Defense Department, most government agencies are literally accountable: they keep books which are open to inspection. We can complain if we see something we don't like. And we can vote in new political leaders if we want a change in direction. If you haven't read it, I highly recommend Giuliani's book "Leadership." He tells how he refocused the agencies in New York to get a different and better result. As old Ross Perot once remarked "You get what you inspect." Steve Hovland www.stevehovland.net -----Original Message----- From: Lynn D. Johnson, Ph.D. [SMTP:ljohnson at solution-consulting.com] Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 8:18 PM To: The new improved paleopsych list Subject: Re: [Paleopsych] the welfare state Agreed, excellent point, although the Bush plan still offers a number of advantages, mostly that when you take the money away from politicians and invest it: 1. The economy is helped by greater capital being available for growth, and 2. The politicans can't spend it like they did the falsely-named social security trust fund. All that money is gone, spent, and nothing buy IOUs left. Pork like Japan's pork that has bankrupted that government, nothing to show for it. 3. The money really does belong to the person who earned it, not to government bureaucrats. The reason welfare states don't work is precisely because Steve's logical idea, sound in principle and practice, is not being adopted. Policy based on pressure groups, not on principle. The failure to adopt makes me more libertarian in outlook, distrusting government because of the lack of accountability. "government doesn't solve problems, it subsidizes them." R. R. Lynn Steve Hovland wrote: >The real way to fix Social Security is to raise >the retirement age, which would require a >major expenditure of political capital :-) > >When Germany set up their pension system >the life expectancy was 67 years, so they >figured a retirement age of 65 wouldn't break >the bank. > >Now that many people live decades beyond >65, we simply can't afford it, nor should we. > >Steve Hovland >www.stevehovland.net > > _______________________________________________ paleopsych mailing list paleopsych at paleopsych.org http://lists.paleopsych.org/mailman/listinfo/paleopsych From checker at panix.com Tue Dec 7 10:22:45 2004 From: checker at panix.com (Premise Checker) Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 05:22:45 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Paleopsych] Scientist asserts viruses are the engine of mutations that drive human evolutionary change Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 10:01:31 +0100 From: Giu1i0 Pri5c0 To: transhumantech at yahoogroups.com, World Transhumanist Association Discussion List , ExI chat list , hitbangpost at googlegroups.com Subject: [wta-talk] Scientist asserts viruses are the engine of mutations that drive human evolutionary change Interesting article (I don't know how accurate from a scientific point of view): A University of California, Irvine scientist says viruses are much, much more than nasty little microbes that infect us with the flu. If he is right, they have infected all of life - with evolution. In an astonishing set of papers and a new book, UCI virologist Luis Villarreal contends viruses are largely responsible for shaping how we look, how we speak, even how we think. In fact, he says, they are an overlooked evolutionary force, one that has been powerfully influencing the shape of living things since life began - actually, since a little before life began. "I'm saying they are a creative force in the evolution of all life," he said in a recent interview. Villarreal, 56, is accustomed to challenging traditional ideas and swimming outside the academic mainstream. His unorthodox ideas about teaching, such as favoring immersion, not lectures, earned him rebukes from some colleagues but a presidential award from Bill Clinton. n reality, Villarreal contends, much, if not all, of this noncoding DNA is really bits and pieces of ancient viruses. They have modified themselves so they can reside comfortably deep inside our cells while avoiding our immune systems. But they are far from being junk. Viruses mutate far more rapidly than more complex organisms - as much as a million times faster than their hosts, including humans. That means many viruses are little packages of new genes that can endow an organism with all kinds of new capabilities. When these viruses settle quietly into the noncoding regions of our DNA, their disease-causing tendencies are suppressed. Eventually they can be harvested by the host for new genes - for example, by reproductive cells. Big leaps in evolution - such as, for instance, a capacity for language and symbolic thinking among humans - could have happened all at once, with the incorporation into our chromosomes of fresh new genes left behind by old viruses. http://www.etaiwannews.com/Perspective/2004/12/07/1102385139.htm _______________________________________________ wta-talk mailing list wta-talk at transhumanism.org http://www.transhumanism.org/mailman/listinfo/wta-talk From isaacsonj at hotmail.com Tue Dec 7 19:37:20 2004 From: isaacsonj at hotmail.com (Joel Isaacson) Date: Tue, 07 Dec 2004 14:37:20 -0500 Subject: [Paleopsych] FW: The future is here. Message-ID: -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "Aaron Rosen" Subject: Fwd: FW: The future is here. Date: Tue, 07 Dec 2004 12:19:28 -0600 Size: 385857 URL: From anonymous_animus at yahoo.com Tue Dec 7 19:44:39 2004 From: anonymous_animus at yahoo.com (Michael Christopher) Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 11:44:39 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Paleopsych] reinforcement Message-ID: <20041207194439.88138.qmail@web13423.mail.yahoo.com> >>What kind of behavior do we want to support? What reward system will promote those behaviors? I think it is to society's advantage that everyone capable of productive work be contributing to society.<< --And, the oft-unasked question, "What are the consequences of treating people as if they are to be rewarded and punished in order to engineer their behavior to conform to an authority's vision of optimum productivity?" Or, put simply, "Who is bossing whom around". Taxpayers feel bossed around by the IRS, which treats them like a cold, calculating parent. Taxpayers get some relief from removing impersonal safety nets from the social ladder. There is an undertone of "daddy is putting his foot down." This forces people to get personal. If the government does not give the poor a way to eat and pay rent, someone will have to minister to them. A boon for churches, at first. More needy people to convert, who will gladly accept a little dogma in exchange for a warm safety net of smiling faces and hot food. Later, in influx. More unstable people ("demonically possessed?") and more conflicts of dogma and faith. More violent clashes, boundary violations and fear among people torn between obeying Christ's commandment to love enemies, and insulating themselves in a secure gated community. More religious fundamentalism, cults who abuse the human need for affiliation and protection, more racial conflict and a pervasive feeling of being on the verge of being "voted off the island". We can look at various scenarios that may unfold if impersonal safety nets are removed and personal ones forced to take up the slack. Some options are: A: Conformity and dramatic increase in productivity. A happy, efficient economic machine like China. Government "nanny state" replaced with nurturing, womblike interest groups, faith groups and corporate neighborhoods with their own means of staying afloat economically. B: Regression to childhood humiliation and punishment, commonly triggered by rejection scenarios and double binds. Paralysis or outbursts of paranoid rage. Spiritual conflict requiring sacrifice and propitiation ritual, carried out in the form of pogroms against groups who do not adapt well. C: The "Scrooge Effect". Groups with many options for controlling their environment begin to shut out awareness of groups for whom options feel like or are a balance of evils. Scrooges appear heartless and cold to lower classes, with the middle class torn between persuit of economic security and the need for social inclusion (do we approach the homeless as potential parasites or assailants, or do we invite human contact?). Corporations scramble to use marketing psychology to secure consumer trust, while issues of trust are re-evaluated across the community. Who trusts whom? Ultimately, scrooges trigger instability by trying to reap security at the expense of others and crossing the line from investment into embezzlement and hoarding. Pyramid schemes and massive cynicism break out. Inflation, scapegoating and symbolic or real lynchings. Populism develops either a redemptive faith or a brutal payback attitude. D: The Rapture. Jesus saves the day. I'm going with D. Just kidding. I'm hoping people find very creative and surprising ways to create community and keep people afloat. If someone is to be sacrificed, let it be the ones who threaten the security of the global organism, not those accused of being lazy, unuseful, inefficient, insane or immoral. We will not be forgiven easily by our children if our collective form becomes that of a funnel, economically and psychologically aborting some segment of the future as the mad scramble to security becomes paramount to the mass. Michael __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - now with 250MB free storage. Learn more. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 From ljohnson at solution-consulting.com Wed Dec 8 04:53:44 2004 From: ljohnson at solution-consulting.com (Lynn D. Johnson, Ph.D.) Date: Tue, 07 Dec 2004 21:53:44 -0700 Subject: [Paleopsych] reinforcement In-Reply-To: <20041207194439.88138.qmail@web13423.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20041207194439.88138.qmail@web13423.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <41B688D8.307@solution-consulting.com> Michael, what you may overlook is that any time we give people unearned rewards, we are influencing their behavior. It cannot be avoided. See Hannes' earlier comments about sick leave. It is an unavoidable consequence of any welfare system. To pretend otherwise encourages a kind of system-wide pretense that devalues all concerned. Reward influence behavior; random rewards influence random responding and chaos / entropy increases. How to reward responsibly is a terribly difficult question, fraught with many unanticipated consequences. So the question stands. As to who bosses whom, I refer to the old English saying, "If you take the King's shilling, you do the king's bidding." Who pays the piper calls the tune, so it is odd to ask that, because if people take money from the government, they owe the people who paid the taxes some kind of compensation. (This is a feature of my own religious system, so I am clearly not objective there. Welfare is received but value must be returned; my church leaders called the dole an evil.) As to IRS, of course, I agree. Solution? VAT like in Europe and no income tax? That gets rid of the IRS, and there are serious proposals to that effect being floated. Finally, your Malthusian visions are simply one possibility. Another: reduce restrictions on capitalism and you raise the general income of everyone in society. Reduce taxes and trim the welfare state to the bone, and more people work and raise their income. We know that now because of Clinton's welfare reforms. Everyone benefits. Malthus has never been right (Club of Rome was wrong too), and so I doubt the accuracy of your vision. I am quite optimistic. (Again, read Commanding Heights where this point is clearly made) Finally, I was shocked to see you use China as a good example. Surely you must be joking? High unemployment, murder of female babies, inefficient government industries, terrible polution . . . How can it be a good example of anything except the foolishness of letting the government become dominant in society? A small, weak government is my ideal. Hamilton himself would be aghast at his federalism gone cancerous. (I recommend the Chernow biography, BTW, excellent!) Michael Christopher wrote: >>>What kind of behavior do we want to support? What >>> >>> >reward system will promote those behaviors? I think it >is to society's advantage that everyone capable of >productive work be contributing to society.<< > >--And, the oft-unasked question, "What are the >consequences of treating people as if they are to be >rewarded and punished in order to engineer their >behavior to conform to an authority's vision of >optimum productivity?" Or, put simply, "Who is bossing >whom around". > >Taxpayers feel bossed around by the IRS, which treats >them like a cold, calculating parent. Taxpayers get >some relief from removing impersonal safety nets from >the social ladder. There is an undertone of "daddy is >putting his foot down." This forces people to get >personal. If the government does not give the poor a >way to eat and pay rent, someone will have to minister >to them. A boon for churches, at first. More needy >people to convert, who will gladly accept a little >dogma in exchange for a warm safety net of smiling >faces and hot food. Later, in influx. More unstable >people ("demonically possessed?") and more conflicts >of dogma and faith. More violent clashes, boundary >violations and fear among people torn between obeying >Christ's commandment to love enemies, and insulating >themselves in a secure gated community. More religious >fundamentalism, cults who abuse the human need for >affiliation and protection, more racial conflict and a >pervasive feeling of being on the verge of being >"voted off the island". > >We can look at various scenarios that may unfold if >impersonal safety nets are removed and personal ones >forced to take up the slack. Some options are: > >A: Conformity and dramatic increase in productivity. A >happy, efficient economic machine like China. >Government "nanny state" replaced with nurturing, >womblike interest groups, faith groups and corporate >neighborhoods with their own means of staying afloat >economically. > >B: Regression to childhood humiliation and punishment, >commonly triggered by rejection scenarios and double >binds. Paralysis or outbursts of paranoid rage. >Spiritual conflict requiring sacrifice and >propitiation ritual, carried out in the form of >pogroms against groups who do not adapt well. > >C: The "Scrooge Effect". Groups with many options for >controlling their environment begin to shut out >awareness of groups for whom options feel like or are >a balance of evils. Scrooges appear heartless and cold >to lower classes, with the middle class torn between >persuit of economic security and the need for social >inclusion (do we approach the homeless as potential >parasites or assailants, or do we invite human >contact?). Corporations scramble to use marketing >psychology to secure consumer trust, while issues of >trust are re-evaluated across the community. Who >trusts whom? Ultimately, scrooges trigger instability >by trying to reap security at the expense of others >and crossing the line from investment into >embezzlement and hoarding. Pyramid schemes and massive >cynicism break out. Inflation, scapegoating and >symbolic or real lynchings. Populism develops either a >redemptive faith or a brutal payback attitude. > >D: The Rapture. Jesus saves the day. > >I'm going with D. Just kidding. I'm hoping people find >very creative and surprising ways to create community >and keep people afloat. If someone is to be >sacrificed, let it be the ones who threaten the >security of the global organism, not those accused of >being lazy, unuseful, inefficient, insane or immoral. >We will not be forgiven easily by our children if our >collective form becomes that of a funnel, economically >and psychologically aborting some segment of the >future as the mad scramble to security becomes >paramount to the mass. > >Michael > > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Mail - now with 250MB free storage. Learn more. >http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 >_______________________________________________ >paleopsych mailing list >paleopsych at paleopsych.org >http://lists.paleopsych.org/mailman/listinfo/paleopsych > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From shovland at mindspring.com Wed Dec 8 06:02:37 2004 From: shovland at mindspring.com (Steve Hovland) Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 22:02:37 -0800 Subject: [Paleopsych] reinforcement Message-ID: <01C4DCA8.7734C520.shovland@mindspring.com> It may be that the original welfare system was constructed without any concept of the problems we later saw. Perhaps it was an attempt to store surplus labor or to prevent revolution- a real fear in the 1930's One basic reason for welfare is that as a civilized society we can't let unproductive people starve while we figure out what to do with them. It's silly to think that they will find jobs. Jobs are scarce right now. It's been like a glass wall for several years- if you were outside there has been very little chance of getting inside. At the same time, the welfare system has been all-or-nothing, and tended to penalize initiative. I have long felt that the negative income tax was a good idea. Put a base under people and don't take it away when they improve on it. If your faith makes you think this is immoral then perhaps you should pay more attention to the increased revenue your business gets from more people having more money to spend. At the same time, I think we need to consciously tackle the problem of reducing the birth rate, particularly of the working classes. I'm sure some people are horrified by those words, but the fact is that there is a working class and that we don't need as many of them as we did 100 years ago. Steve Hovland www.stevehovland.net -----Original Message----- From: Lynn D. Johnson, Ph.D. [SMTP:ljohnson at solution-consulting.com] Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 8:54 PM To: The new improved paleopsych list Cc: Christian Rauh Subject: Re: [Paleopsych] reinforcement Michael, what you may overlook is that any time we give people unearned rewards, we are influencing their behavior. It cannot be avoided. See Hannes' earlier comments about sick leave. It is an unavoidable consequence of any welfare system. To pretend otherwise encourages a kind of system-wide pretense that devalues all concerned. Reward influence behavior; random rewards influence random responding and chaos / entropy increases. How to reward responsibly is a terribly difficult question, fraught with many unanticipated consequences. So the question stands. As to who bosses whom, I refer to the old English saying, "If you take the King's shilling, you do the king's bidding." Who pays the piper calls the tune, so it is odd to ask that, because if people take money from the government, they owe the people who paid the taxes some kind of compensation. (This is a feature of my own religious system, so I am clearly not objective there. Welfare is received but value must be returned; my church leaders called the dole an evil.) As to IRS, of course, I agree. Solution? VAT like in Europe and no income tax? That gets rid of the IRS, and there are serious proposals to that effect being floated. Finally, your Malthusian visions are simply one possibility. Another: reduce restrictions on capitalism and you raise the general income of everyone in society. Reduce taxes and trim the welfare state to the bone, and more people work and raise their income. We know that now because of Clinton's welfare reforms. Everyone benefits. Malthus has never been right (Club of Rome was wrong too), and so I doubt the accuracy of your vision. I am quite optimistic. (Again, read Commanding Heights where this point is clearly made) Finally, I was shocked to see you use China as a good example. Surely you must be joking? High unemployment, murder of female babies, inefficient government industries, terrible polution . . . How can it be a good example of anything except the foolishness of letting the government become dominant in society? A small, weak government is my ideal. Hamilton himself would be aghast at his federalism gone cancerous. (I recommend the Chernow biography, BTW, excellent!) Michael Christopher wrote: >>>What kind of behavior do we want to support? What >>> >>> >reward system will promote those behaviors? I think it >is to society's advantage that everyone capable of >productive work be contributing to society.<< > >--And, the oft-unasked question, "What are the >consequences of treating people as if they are to be >rewarded and punished in order to engineer their >behavior to conform to an authority's vision of >optimum productivity?" Or, put simply, "Who is bossing >whom around". > >Taxpayers feel bossed around by the IRS, which treats >them like a cold, calculating parent. Taxpayers get >some relief from removing impersonal safety nets from >the social ladder. There is an undertone of "daddy is >putting his foot down." This forces people to get >personal. If the government does not give the poor a >way to eat and pay rent, someone will have to minister >to them. A boon for churches, at first. More needy >people to convert, who will gladly accept a little >dogma in exchange for a warm safety net of smiling >faces and hot food. Later, in influx. More unstable >people ("demonically possessed?") and more conflicts >of dogma and faith. More violent clashes, boundary >violations and fear among people torn between obeying >Christ's commandment to love enemies, and insulating >themselves in a secure gated community. More religious >fundamentalism, cults who abuse the human need for >affiliation and protection, more racial conflict and a >pervasive feeling of being on the verge of being >"voted off the island". > >We can look at various scenarios that may unfold if >impersonal safety nets are removed and personal ones >forced to take up the slack. Some options are: > >A: Conformity and dramatic increase in productivity. A >happy, efficient economic machine like China. >Government "nanny state" replaced with nurturing, >womblike interest groups, faith groups and corporate >neighborhoods with their own means of staying afloat >economically. > >B: Regression to childhood humiliation and punishment, >commonly triggered by rejection scenarios and double >binds. Paralysis or outbursts of paranoid rage. >Spiritual conflict requiring sacrifice and >propitiation ritual, carried out in the form of >pogroms against groups who do not adapt well. > >C: The "Scrooge Effect". Groups with many options for >controlling their environment begin to shut out >awareness of groups for whom options feel like or are >a balance of evils. Scrooges appear heartless and cold >to lower classes, with the middle class torn between >persuit of economic security and the need for social >inclusion (do we approach the homeless as potential >parasites or assailants, or do we invite human >contact?). Corporations scramble to use marketing >psychology to secure consumer trust, while issues of >trust are re-evaluated across the community. Who >trusts whom? Ultimately, scrooges trigger instability >by trying to reap security at the expense of others >and crossing the line from investment into >embezzlement and hoarding. Pyramid schemes and massive >cynicism break out. Inflation, scapegoating and >symbolic or real lynchings. Populism develops either a >redemptive faith or a brutal payback attitude. > >D: The Rapture. Jesus saves the day. > >I'm going with D. Just kidding. I'm hoping people find >very creative and surprising ways to create community >and keep people afloat. If someone is to be >sacrificed, let it be the ones who threaten the >security of the global organism, not those accused of >being lazy, unuseful, inefficient, insane or immoral. >We will not be forgiven easily by our children if our >collective form becomes that of a funnel, economically >and psychologically aborting some segment of the >future as the mad scramble to security becomes >paramount to the mass. > >Michael > > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Mail - now with 250MB free storage. Learn more. >http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 >_______________________________________________ >paleopsych mailing list >paleopsych at paleopsych.org >http://lists.paleopsych.org/mailman/listinfo/paleopsych > > > > << File: ATT00050.html >> << File: ATT00051.txt >> From christian.rauh at uconn.edu Wed Dec 8 13:44:11 2004 From: christian.rauh at uconn.edu (Christian Rauh) Date: Wed, 08 Dec 2004 08:44:11 -0500 Subject: [Paleopsych] reinforcement In-Reply-To: <01C4DCA8.7734C520.shovland@mindspring.com> References: <01C4DCA8.7734C520.shovland@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <41B7052B.2000501@uconn.edu> I agree with all of you. I agree with Lynn that giving people a minimum amount of quality of life makes them less willing to work. However, all this discussion is so American/developed country centered that it borders the ridiculous. When I think about "welfare", I am not talking about welfare where people can pay rent and have a TV. I'm talking about people hungry. But there are two questions to this: 1 - How large is that effect? What is the change in willingness to work from a person that is hungry to a person that is not hungry? Certainly, people who are hungry will work for less so they are more willing, but how much less? Is it a meaningfull change? 2 - If there is a meaningful change, are we willing to improve productivity based on other people's hunger? If we are all to live a worse life with less stuff so that other people will eat so be it! Sell the the Chevrolet Metro by the price of a Hummer. You also get less fatal acidents on the side. As a final point I think that this big government/small government vs. welfare/not welfare is secondary at this point. Efforts to reduce corruption (private and public) is probably the one major factor to improve productivity in developed countries. Christian Steve Hovland wrote: > It may be that the original welfare system > was constructed without any concept of > the problems we later saw. Perhaps it > was an attempt to store surplus labor or > to prevent revolution- a real fear in the 1930's > > One basic reason for welfare is that as a civilized > society we can't let unproductive people starve > while we figure out what to do with them. > > It's silly to think that they will find jobs. Jobs > are scarce right now. It's been like a glass > wall for several years- if you were outside > there has been very little chance of getting inside. > > At the same time, the welfare system has > been all-or-nothing, and tended to penalize > initiative. > > I have long felt that the negative income tax > was a good idea. Put a base under people > and don't take it away when they improve on it. > > If your faith makes you think this is immoral > then perhaps you should pay more attention > to the increased revenue your business gets > from more people having more money to spend. > > At the same time, I think we need to consciously > tackle the problem of reducing the birth rate, > particularly of the working classes. I'm sure some > people are horrified by those words, but the fact > is that there is a working class and that we don't > need as many of them as we did 100 years ago. > > Steve Hovland > www.stevehovland.net > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lynn D. Johnson, Ph.D. [SMTP:ljohnson at solution-consulting.com] > Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 8:54 PM > To: The new improved paleopsych list > Cc: Christian Rauh > Subject: Re: [Paleopsych] reinforcement > > Michael, what you may overlook is that any time we give people unearned > rewards, we are influencing their behavior. It cannot be avoided. See > Hannes' earlier comments about sick leave. It is an unavoidable > consequence of any welfare system. To pretend otherwise encourages a > kind of system-wide pretense that devalues all concerned. Reward > influence behavior; random rewards influence random responding and chaos > / entropy increases. How to reward responsibly is a terribly difficult > question, fraught with many unanticipated consequences. > > So the question stands. As to who bosses whom, I refer to the old > English saying, "If you take the King's shilling, you do the king's > bidding." Who pays the piper calls the tune, so it is odd to ask that, > because if people take money from the government, they owe the people > who paid the taxes some kind of compensation. (This is a feature of my > own religious system, so I am clearly not objective there. Welfare is > received but value must be returned; my church leaders called the dole > an evil.) > > As to IRS, of course, I agree. Solution? VAT like in Europe and no > income tax? That gets rid of the IRS, and there are serious proposals to > that effect being floated. > > Finally, your Malthusian visions are simply one possibility. Another: > reduce restrictions on capitalism and you raise the general income of > everyone in society. Reduce taxes and trim the welfare state to the > bone, and more people work and raise their income. We know that now > because of Clinton's welfare reforms. Everyone benefits. Malthus has > never been right (Club of Rome was wrong too), and so I doubt the > accuracy of your vision. I am quite optimistic. (Again, read Commanding > Heights where this point is clearly made) > > Finally, I was shocked to see you use China as a good example. Surely > you must be joking? High unemployment, murder of female babies, > inefficient government industries, terrible polution . . . How can it be > a good example of anything except the foolishness of letting the > government become dominant in society? A small, weak government is my > ideal. Hamilton himself would be aghast at his federalism gone > cancerous. (I recommend the Chernow biography, BTW, excellent!) > > Michael Christopher wrote: > > >>>>What kind of behavior do we want to support? What >>>> >>>> >> >>reward system will promote those behaviors? I think it >>is to society's advantage that everyone capable of >>productive work be contributing to society.<< >> >>--And, the oft-unasked question, "What are the >>consequences of treating people as if they are to be >>rewarded and punished in order to engineer their >>behavior to conform to an authority's vision of >>optimum productivity?" Or, put simply, "Who is bossing >>whom around". >> >>Taxpayers feel bossed around by the IRS, which treats >>them like a cold, calculating parent. Taxpayers get >>some relief from removing impersonal safety nets from >>the social ladder. There is an undertone of "daddy is >>putting his foot down." This forces people to get >>personal. If the government does not give the poor a >>way to eat and pay rent, someone will have to minister >>to them. A boon for churches, at first. More needy >>people to convert, who will gladly accept a little >>dogma in exchange for a warm safety net of smiling >>faces and hot food. Later, in influx. More unstable >>people ("demonically possessed?") and more conflicts >>of dogma and faith. More violent clashes, boundary >>violations and fear among people torn between obeying >>Christ's commandment to love enemies, and insulating >>themselves in a secure gated community. More religious >>fundamentalism, cults who abuse the human need for >>affiliation and protection, more racial conflict and a >>pervasive feeling of being on the verge of being >>"voted off the island". >> >>We can look at various scenarios that may unfold if >>impersonal safety nets are removed and personal ones >>forced to take up the slack. Some options are: >> >>A: Conformity and dramatic increase in productivity. A >>happy, efficient economic machine like China. >>Government "nanny state" replaced with nurturing, >>womblike interest groups, faith groups and corporate >>neighborhoods with their own means of staying afloat >>economically. >> >>B: Regression to childhood humiliation and punishment, >>commonly triggered by rejection scenarios and double >>binds. Paralysis or outbursts of paranoid rage. >>Spiritual conflict requiring sacrifice and >>propitiation ritual, carried out in the form of >>pogroms against groups who do not adapt well. >> >>C: The "Scrooge Effect". Groups with many options for >>controlling their environment begin to shut out >>awareness of groups for whom options feel like or are >>a balance of evils. Scrooges appear heartless and cold >>to lower classes, with the middle class torn between >>persuit of economic security and the need for social >>inclusion (do we approach the homeless as potential >>parasites or assailants, or do we invite human >>contact?). Corporations scramble to use marketing >>psychology to secure consumer trust, while issues of >>trust are re-evaluated across the community. Who >>trusts whom? Ultimately, scrooges trigger instability >>by trying to reap security at the expense of others >>and crossing the line from investment into >>embezzlement and hoarding. Pyramid schemes and massive >>cynicism break out. Inflation, scapegoating and >>symbolic or real lynchings. Populism develops either a >>redemptive faith or a brutal payback attitude. >> >>D: The Rapture. Jesus saves the day. >> >>I'm going with D. Just kidding. I'm hoping people find >>very creative and surprising ways to create community >>and keep people afloat. If someone is to be >>sacrificed, let it be the ones who threaten the >>security of the global organism, not those accused of >>being lazy, unuseful, inefficient, insane or immoral. >>We will not be forgiven easily by our children if our >>collective form becomes that of a funnel, economically >>and psychologically aborting some segment of the >>future as the mad scramble to security becomes >>paramount to the mass. >> >>Michael >> >> >> >>__________________________________ >>Do you Yahoo!? >>Yahoo! Mail - now with 250MB free storage. Learn more. >>http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 >>_______________________________________________ >>paleopsych mailing list >>paleopsych at paleopsych.org >>http://lists.paleopsych.org/mailman/listinfo/paleopsych >> >> >> >> > > << File: ATT00050.html >> << File: ATT00051.txt >> > _______________________________________________ > paleopsych mailing list > paleopsych at paleopsych.org > http://lists.paleopsych.org/mailman/listinfo/paleopsych -- ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? "I am in a very sad position. I do not see any freedom or any democracy. If this could lead into a freedom, it is a freedom with blood. It is a freedom of emotions of sadness. It is a freedom of killing. You cannot gain democracy through blood or killing. You do not find the freedom that way." - Abu Talat, 19 Nov 2004 (after the raid of Abu Hanifa mosque) _____________________________________________________________________ ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? From ljohnson at solution-consulting.com Wed Dec 8 13:59:49 2004 From: ljohnson at solution-consulting.com (Lynn D. Johnson, Ph.D.) Date: Wed, 08 Dec 2004 06:59:49 -0700 Subject: [Paleopsych] FW: The future is here. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <41B708D5.6000208@solution-consulting.com> This was wonderful -- illustrates that men of science are not good at predicting the future. In 1960, when I was 14, I read a short story that predicted sophisticated handheld calculators, so science fiction writers have a better track record. Robert Heinlein had scientists of the future using slide rulers (what are those, daddy?) thought. Joel Isaacson wrote: (snipped) From anonymous_animus at yahoo.com Wed Dec 8 19:20:32 2004 From: anonymous_animus at yahoo.com (Michael Christopher) Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 11:20:32 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Paleopsych] training In-Reply-To: <200412081900.iB8J0Q028053@tick.javien.com> Message-ID: <20041208192032.180.qmail@web13422.mail.yahoo.com> >>Michael, what you may overlook is that any time we give people unearned rewards, we are influencing their behavior.<< --As a clicker training fan, I agree. However, when you do that, you are sending a covert message, "I am the trainer, you are the doggy." That message has as much influence, and often more, than the message you THINK you're sending. With animals, it doesn't matter. You reward them when they do good, and they're happy. With humans, it's more complex. Social engineering must not be attempted by people who do not have a genuine and sincere understanding of the experience of the people they're trying to "train". >>Reward influence behavior; random rewards influence random responding and chaos / entropy increases.<< --Also true. And you have the problem of "too many trainers". One authority says "Work hard and prosper". Another says "Work hard and stay at the bottom. Flatter the boss and rise in rank." There are so many signals being sent, that the one you THINK you're sending is warped and distorted in the process. You are only one of many "trainers". The fallacy of thinking you are sending clear signals when the environment is warping the signals is very common. It's why fathers who try to keep their daughters from sleeping around end up pushing them to sleep around. It's why people who punish laziness end up inspiring avoidance and more laziness. People who don't understand reinforcement in practice, relying only on the ideological "rewarding laziness is bad" message, often produce contradictory results because they are relying on theory and not actual experience. Before you try to "train" any human or subculture, you really ought to learn to train a parrot or a dolphin or a dog using the clicker method. I'd require that of anyone who thinks he's qualified to engineer a more responsible society. Michael __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 From anonymous_animus at yahoo.com Wed Dec 8 19:27:17 2004 From: anonymous_animus at yahoo.com (Michael Christopher) Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 11:27:17 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Paleopsych] social engineering In-Reply-To: <200412081900.iB8J0Q028053@tick.javien.com> Message-ID: <20041208192717.75506.qmail@web13423.mail.yahoo.com> >>It may be that the original welfare system was constructed without any concept of the problems we later saw.<< --And it will be ended without any concept of the problems that will ensue. Social engineering ALWAYS has consequences, and dismantling a safety net is as much an act of social engineering as creating it. We have many people who are isolated in "theory bubbles", both on the Left and on the Right. They are not connected to the ground-level reality of life in America. They are isolated in groups that think alike and assume their ideas will work in practice once obstacles have been removed. Today's think-tank conservatives are not so different from yesterday's "ivory tower liberals". They won't know what they're doing wrong until reality trickles into their bubbles. You simply cannot assume that because welfare is "bad liberal social engineering" that removing it will automatically produce good results. It may FEEL good to "send a clear signal" about responsibility and independence, but in practice as I mentioned earlier, that signal gets distorted and can produce a nasty backlash. The "Good doggy, bad doggy" method has serious flaws, despite being based on good Skinnerean theory. In laboratory conditions, where there is a single trainer and the rewards clearly tied to behavior, it works really well. In human societies, it can be incredibly unstable when attempted on a large scale. Michael __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 From shovland at mindspring.com Thu Dec 9 02:19:38 2004 From: shovland at mindspring.com (Steve Hovland) Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 18:19:38 -0800 Subject: [Paleopsych] reinforcement Message-ID: <01C4DD52.7ACF28B0.shovland@mindspring.com> There's nothing magic about the private sector. I've seen just as much incompetence and inefficiency in corporations as I have in government, and seen just as much intelligence and competence in government as I've seen in corporations. Either sector can have efficient processes and measures of success that ensure good results at reasonable cost. Hunger is not the only thing that makes people want to work, and it's absurd to pitch people into starvation in order to avoid demeaning them by providing a subsistence living for them. Steve Hovland www.stevehovland.net -----Original Message----- From: Christian Rauh [SMTP:christian.rauh at uconn.edu] Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 5:44 AM To: The new improved paleopsych list Subject: Re: [Paleopsych] reinforcement I agree with all of you. I agree with Lynn that giving people a minimum amount of quality of life makes them less willing to work. However, all this discussion is so American/developed country centered that it borders the ridiculous. When I think about "welfare", I am not talking about welfare where people can pay rent and have a TV. I'm talking about people hungry. But there are two questions to this: 1 - How large is that effect? What is the change in willingness to work from a person that is hungry to a person that is not hungry? Certainly, people who are hungry will work for less so they are more willing, but how much less? Is it a meaningfull change? 2 - If there is a meaningful change, are we willing to improve productivity based on other people's hunger? If we are all to live a worse life with less stuff so that other people will eat so be it! Sell the the Chevrolet Metro by the price of a Hummer. You also get less fatal acidents on the side. As a final point I think that this big government/small government vs. welfare/not welfare is secondary at this point. Efforts to reduce corruption (private and public) is probably the one major factor to improve productivity in developed countries. Christian Steve Hovland wrote: > It may be that the original welfare system > was constructed without any concept of > the problems we later saw. Perhaps it > was an attempt to store surplus labor or > to prevent revolution- a real fear in the 1930's > > One basic reason for welfare is that as a civilized > society we can't let unproductive people starve > while we figure out what to do with them. > > It's silly to think that they will find jobs. Jobs > are scarce right now. It's been like a glass > wall for several years- if you were outside > there has been very little chance of getting inside. > > At the same time, the welfare system has > been all-or-nothing, and tended to penalize > initiative. > > I have long felt that the negative income tax > was a good idea. Put a base under people > and don't take it away when they improve on it. > > If your faith makes you think this is immoral > then perhaps you should pay more attention > to the increased revenue your business gets > from more people having more money to spend. > > At the same time, I think we need to consciously > tackle the problem of reducing the birth rate, > particularly of the working classes. I'm sure some > people are horrified by those words, but the fact > is that there is a working class and that we don't > need as many of them as we did 100 years ago. > > Steve Hovland > www.stevehovland.net > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lynn D. Johnson, Ph.D. [SMTP:ljohnson at solution-consulting.com] > Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 8:54 PM > To: The new improved paleopsych list > Cc: Christian Rauh > Subject: Re: [Paleopsych] reinforcement > > Michael, what you may overlook is that any time we give people unearned > rewards, we are influencing their behavior. It cannot be avoided. See > Hannes' earlier comments about sick leave. It is an unavoidable > consequence of any welfare system. To pretend otherwise encourages a > kind of system-wide pretense that devalues all concerned. Reward > influence behavior; random rewards influence random responding and chaos > / entropy increases. How to reward responsibly is a terribly difficult > question, fraught with many unanticipated consequences. > > So the question stands. As to who bosses whom, I refer to the old > English saying, "If you take the King's shilling, you do the king's > bidding." Who pays the piper calls the tune, so it is odd to ask that, > because if people take money from the government, they owe the people > who paid the taxes some kind of compensation. (This is a feature of my > own religious system, so I am clearly not objective there. Welfare is > received but value must be returned; my church leaders called the dole > an evil.) > > As to IRS, of course, I agree. Solution? VAT like in Europe and no > income tax? That gets rid of the IRS, and there are serious proposals to > that effect being floated. > > Finally, your Malthusian visions are simply one possibility. Another: > reduce restrictions on capitalism and you raise the general income of > everyone in society. Reduce taxes and trim the welfare state to the > bone, and more people work and raise their income. We know that now > because of Clinton's welfare reforms. Everyone benefits. Malthus has > never been right (Club of Rome was wrong too), and so I doubt the > accuracy of your vision. I am quite optimistic. (Again, read Commanding > Heights where this point is clearly made) > > Finally, I was shocked to see you use China as a good example. Surely > you must be joking? High unemployment, murder of female babies, > inefficient government industries, terrible polution . . . How can it be > a good example of anything except the foolishness of letting the > government become dominant in society? A small, weak government is my > ideal. Hamilton himself would be aghast at his federalism gone > cancerous. (I recommend the Chernow biography, BTW, excellent!) > > Michael Christopher wrote: > > >>>>What kind of behavior do we want to support? What >>>> >>>> >> >>reward system will promote those behaviors? I think it >>is to society's advantage that everyone capable of >>productive work be contributing to society.<< >> >>--And, the oft-unasked question, "What are the >>consequences of treating people as if they are to be >>rewarded and punished in order to engineer their >>behavior to conform to an authority's vision of >>optimum productivity?" Or, put simply, "Who is bossing >>whom around". >> >>Taxpayers feel bossed around by the IRS, which treats >>them like a cold, calculating parent. Taxpayers get >>some relief from removing impersonal safety nets from >>the social ladder. There is an undertone of "daddy is >>putting his foot down." This forces people to get >>personal. If the government does not give the poor a >>way to eat and pay rent, someone will have to minister >>to them. A boon for churches, at first. More needy >>people to convert, who will gladly accept a little >>dogma in exchange for a warm safety net of smiling >>faces and hot food. Later, in influx. More unstable >>people ("demonically possessed?") and more conflicts >>of dogma and faith. More violent clashes, boundary >>violations and fear among people torn between obeying >>Christ's commandment to love enemies, and insulating >>themselves in a secure gated community. More religious >>fundamentalism, cults who abuse the human need for >>affiliation and protection, more racial conflict and a >>pervasive feeling of being on the verge of being >>"voted off the island". >> >>We can look at various scenarios that may unfold if >>impersonal safety nets are removed and personal ones >>forced to take up the slack. Some options are: >> >>A: Conformity and dramatic increase in productivity. A >>happy, efficient economic machine like China. >>Government "nanny state" replaced with nurturing, >>womblike interest groups, faith groups and corporate >>neighborhoods with their own means of staying afloat >>economically. >> >>B: Regression to childhood humiliation and punishment, >>commonly triggered by rejection scenarios and double >>binds. Paralysis or outbursts of paranoid rage. >>Spiritual conflict requiring sacrifice and >>propitiation ritual, carried out in the form of >>pogroms against groups who do not adapt well. >> >>C: The "Scrooge Effect". Groups with many options for >>controlling their environment begin to shut out >>awareness of groups for whom options feel like or are >>a balance of evils. Scrooges appear heartless and cold >>to lower classes, with the middle class torn between >>persuit of economic security and the need for social >>inclusion (do we approach the homeless as potential >>parasites or assailants, or do we invite human >>contact?). Corporations scramble to use marketing >>psychology to secure consumer trust, while issues of >>trust are re-evaluated across the community. Who >>trusts whom? Ultimately, scrooges trigger instability >>by trying to reap security at the expense of others >>and crossing the line from investment into >>embezzlement and hoarding. Pyramid schemes and massive >>cynicism break out. Inflation, scapegoating and >>symbolic or real lynchings. Populism develops either a >>redemptive faith or a brutal payback attitude. >> >>D: The Rapture. Jesus saves the day. >> >>I'm going with D. Just kidding. I'm hoping people find >>very creative and surprising ways to create community >>and keep people afloat. If someone is to be >>sacrificed, let it be the ones who threaten the >>security of the global organism, not those accused of >>being lazy, unuseful, inefficient, insane or immoral. >>We will not be forgiven easily by our children if our >>collective form becomes that of a funnel, economically >>and psychologically aborting some segment of the >>future as the mad scramble to security becomes >>paramount to the mass. >> >>Michael >> >> >> >>__________________________________ >>Do you Yahoo!? >>Yahoo! Mail - now with 250MB free storage. Learn more. >>http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 >>_______________________________________________ >>paleopsych mailing list >>paleopsych at paleopsych.org >>http://lists.paleopsych.org/mailman/listinfo/paleopsych >> >> >> >> > > << File: ATT00050.html >> << File: ATT00051.txt >> > _______________________________________________ > paleopsych mailing list > paleopsych at paleopsych.org > http://lists.paleopsych.org/mailman/listinfo/paleopsych -- ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? "I am in a very sad position. I do not see any freedom or any democracy. If this could lead into a freedom, it is a freedom with blood. It is a freedom of emotions of sadness. It is a freedom of killing. You cannot gain democracy through blood or killing. You do not find the freedom that way." - Abu Talat, 19 Nov 2004 (after the raid of Abu Hanifa mosque) _____________________________________________________________________ ???????????????????????????????$o$??????????????????????????????????? _______________________________________________ paleopsych mailing list paleopsych at paleopsych.org http://lists.paleopsych.org/mailman/listinfo/paleopsych From shovland at mindspring.com Thu Dec 9 02:21:41 2004 From: shovland at mindspring.com (Steve Hovland) Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 18:21:41 -0800 Subject: [Paleopsych] training Message-ID: <01C4DD52.C415DB40.shovland@mindspring.com> Earned rewards also inflence behavior. If a welfare check came with a work requirement, would that be a desirable influence on behavior? If someone gets help from private individuals or faith-based groups, he has to dance to their tune just as much as he would have to dance to the government's tune to get help from it. Steve Hovland www.stevehovland.net -----Original Message----- From: Michael Christopher [SMTP:anonymous_animus at yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 11:21 AM To: paleopsych at paleopsych.org Subject: [Paleopsych] training >>Michael, what you may overlook is that any time we give people unearned rewards, we are influencing their behavior.<< --As a clicker training fan, I agree. However, when you do that, you are sending a covert message, "I am the trainer, you are the doggy." That message has as much influence, and often more, than the message you THINK you're sending. With animals, it doesn't matter. You reward them when they do good, and they're happy. With humans, it's more complex. Social engineering must not be attempted by people who do not have a genuine and sincere understanding of the experience of the people they're trying to "train". >>Reward influence behavior; random rewards influence random responding and chaos / entropy increases.<< --Also true. And you have the problem of "too many trainers". One authority says "Work hard and prosper". Another says "Work hard and stay at the bottom. Flatter the boss and rise in rank." There are so many signals being sent, that the one you THINK you're sending is warped and distorted in the process. You are only one of many "trainers". The fallacy of thinking you are sending clear signals when the environment is warping the signals is very common. It's why fathers who try to keep their daughters from sleeping around end up pushing them to sleep around. It's why people who punish laziness end up inspiring avoidance and more laziness. People who don't understand reinforcement in practice, relying only on the ideological "rewarding laziness is bad" message, often produce contradictory results because they are relying on theory and not actual experience. Before you try to "train" any human or subculture, you really ought to learn to train a parrot or a dolphin or a dog using the clicker method. I'd require that of anyone who thinks he's qualified to engineer a more responsible society. Michael __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 _______________________________________________ paleopsych mailing list paleopsych at paleopsych.org http://lists.paleopsych.org/mailman/listinfo/paleopsych From waluk at earthlink.net Thu Dec 9 03:10:26 2004 From: waluk at earthlink.net (Geraldine Reinhardt) Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 19:10:26 -0800 Subject: [Paleopsych] training References: <01C4DD52.C415DB40.shovland@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <050601c4dd9c$a26dd480$2a03f604@S0027397558> All rewards influence behavior. For example, if you were the recipient of a welfare group then what you would receive is exactly what you could state in your opening message....i.e. something that your p.r. person could write to incorporate your good works in terms of the local welfare program. The identical scenario is true for other groups such as faith based or even private individuals. In my opinion, this entire thing is lame but there are many folks out there who like subscribing to it. Gerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Hovland" To: "'The new improved paleopsych list'" Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 6:21 PM Subject: RE: [Paleopsych] training > Earned rewards also inflence behavior. > > If a welfare check came with a work requirement, > would that be a desirable influence on behavior? > > If someone gets help from private individuals or > faith-based groups, he has to dance to their tune > just as much as he would have to dance to the > government's tune to get help from it. > > Steve Hovland > www.stevehovland.net > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Christopher > [SMTP:anonymous_animus at yahoo.com] > Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 11:21 AM > To: paleopsych at paleopsych.org > Subject: [Paleopsych] training > > >>>Michael, what you may overlook is that any time > we give people unearned rewards, we are influencing > their behavior.<< > > --As a clicker training fan, I agree. However, when > you do that, you are sending a covert message, "I am > the trainer, you are the doggy." That message has as > much influence, and often more, than the message you > THINK you're sending. With animals, it doesn't > matter. > You reward them when they do good, and they're happy. > With humans, it's more complex. Social engineering > must not be attempted by people who do not have a > genuine and sincere understanding of the experience > of > the people they're trying to "train". > >>>Reward influence behavior; random rewards influence > random responding and chaos / entropy increases.<< > > --Also true. And you have the problem of "too many > trainers". One authority says "Work hard and > prosper". > Another says "Work hard and stay at the bottom. > Flatter the boss and rise in rank." There are so many > signals being sent, that the one you THINK you're > sending is warped and distorted in the process. You > are only one of many "trainers". The fallacy of > thinking you are sending clear signals when the > environment is warping the signals is very common. > It's why fathers who try to keep their daughters from > sleeping around end up pushing them to sleep around. > It's why people who punish laziness end up inspiring > avoidance and more laziness. People who don't > understand reinforcement in practice, relying only on > the ideological "rewarding laziness is bad" message, > often produce contradictory results because they are > relying on theory and not actual experience. > > Before you try to "train" any human or subculture, > you > really ought to learn to train a parrot or a dolphin > or a dog using the clicker method. I'd require that > of > anyone who thinks he's qualified to engineer a more > responsible society. > > Michael > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail - 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage > less. > http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 > _______________________________________________ > paleopsych mailing list > paleopsych at paleopsych.org > http://lists.paleopsych.org/mailman/listinfo/paleopsych > _______________________________________________ > paleopsych mailing list > paleopsych at paleopsych.org > http://lists.paleopsych.org/mailman/listinfo/paleopsych From shovland at mindspring.com Thu Dec 9 04:45:37 2004 From: shovland at mindspring.com (Steve Hovland) Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 20:45:37 -0800 Subject: [Paleopsych] Eyebit: Budget Deficits Message-ID: <01C4DD66.E04CAAA0.shovland@mindspring.com> The eyebit is a 21st century form of communication that renders the sound byte obsolete :-) Steve Hovland www.stevehovland.net -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 99150 bytes Desc: not available URL: From anonymous_animus at yahoo.com Thu Dec 9 20:35:45 2004 From: anonymous_animus at yahoo.com (Michael Christopher) Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 12:35:45 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Paleopsych] elimination In-Reply-To: <200412091900.iB9J0W015931@tick.javien.com> Message-ID: <20041209203545.25400.qmail@web13426.mail.yahoo.com> >>Hunger is not the only thing that makes people want to work, and it's absurd to pitch people into starvation in order to avoid demeaning them by providing a subsistence living for them.<< --That is a pretty "iffy" idea, isn't it. It's especially frightening at a time when the national psychology is dominated by punishment and retribution. Watch any reality show, the theme is "elimination". The shows that center on reconciliation or growth involve people swapping places with other people, the basis of all empathy. Perhaps those who are currently safe will only understand what is going on when they feel unsafe. Perhaps those who are unsafe need help, if not from the government, then from the churches that pay lip service to Christ. Michael __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today! http://my.yahoo.com From anonymous_animus at yahoo.com Thu Dec 9 20:43:48 2004 From: anonymous_animus at yahoo.com (Michael Christopher) Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 12:43:48 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Paleopsych] charity In-Reply-To: <200412091900.iB9J0W015931@tick.javien.com> Message-ID: <20041209204348.27277.qmail@web13426.mail.yahoo.com> >>If a welfare check came with a work requirement, would that be a desirable influence on behavior? If someone gets help from private individuals or faith-based groups, he has to dance to their tune just as much as he would have to dance to the government's tune to get help from it.<< --I don't think anyone rejects the idea of people doing temp work to earn welfare, except people who are categorically against welfare. It's hard for many people to get or keep a job, for whatever reasons, and day work is one way to get people to work, knowing they won't be fired or jerked around in order to feed themselves. I'm sure Christian churches will be totally even-handed in their treatment of the poor and homeless who come to them when government safety nets fail, whether they accept Jesus or reject Christianity. It would be a fun experiment, getting two people to approach a church for help, one adapting well to Christian beliefs and the other questioning Christianity and advocating some other faith or atheism, politely but without budging on dogma. I'm sure they'd both be treated with equal kindness and charity. Surely the Christian drive to end welfare and make churches the leading economic and social safety net isn't just a cynical ploy to get converts. If it is, we'll soon know. The influx of needy people will quickly reveal the prejudices and deeper fears of those who consider themselves devout. And it just might inspire pagan, humanist and science-based groups to start their own charity programs, as a way of connecting people to groups who are compatible and can provide temporary work. If it is impossible for liberals to take control of government safety nets (which may not be easy to save, either way), liberals will then have to focus on community building, educational and social projects, privately funded charity and the illumination of a social conscience. There, they will excel. Michael __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The all-new My Yahoo! - Get yours free! http://my.yahoo.com From waluk at earthlink.net Thu Dec 9 22:06:28 2004 From: waluk at earthlink.net (Geraldine Reinhardt) Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 14:06:28 -0800 Subject: [Paleopsych] elimination References: <20041209203545.25400.qmail@web13426.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <023d01c4de3b$561c2ba0$3600f604@S0027397558> >>Perhaps those who are currently safe will only understand what is going on when they feel unsafe. Perhaps those who are unsafe need help, if not from the government, then from the churches that pay lip service to Christ. << Feeling unsafe has many ramifications. Unemployment is top of the list. Next comes losing the family home. Follow that with a move far away from family and friends. Finally add hunger and starvation. Our government, either national or state makes few provisions for tekkies out of work. Because they are highly trained professionals, their profile doesn't fit the "unsafe" category and never will. Very few Silicon Valley tekkies are religious so church assistance is also a moot point. Gerry From christian.rauh at uconn.edu Fri Dec 10 01:01:43 2004 From: christian.rauh at uconn.edu (Christian Rauh) Date: Thu, 09 Dec 2004 20:01:43 -0500 Subject: [Paleopsych] charity In-Reply-To: <20041209204348.27277.qmail@web13426.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20041209204348.27277.qmail@web13426.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <41B8F577.3070100@uconn.edu> It is interesting that because government has lost so much credibility the option is to create... another government! Christian Michael Christopher wrote: >>>If a welfare check came with a work requirement, > > would that be a desirable influence on behavior? If > someone gets help from private individuals or > faith-based groups, he has to dance to their tune just > as much as he would have to dance to the government's > tune to get help from it.<< > > --I don't think anyone rejects the idea of people > doing temp work to earn welfare, except people who are > categorically against welfare. It's hard for many > people to get or keep a job, for whatever reasons, and > day work is one way to get people to work, knowing > they won't be fired or jerked around in order to feed > themselves. > > I'm sure Christian churches will be totally > even-handed in their treatment of the poor and > homeless who come to them when government safety nets > fail, whether they accept Jesus or reject > Christianity. > > It would be a fun experiment, getting two people to > approach a church for help, one adapting well to > Christian beliefs and the other questioning > Christianity and advocating some other faith or > atheism, politely but without budging on dogma. I'm > sure they'd both be treated with equal kindness and > charity. Surely the Christian drive to end welfare and > make churches the leading economic and social safety > net isn't just a cynical ploy to get converts. If it > is, we'll soon know. The influx of needy people will > quickly reveal the prejudices and deeper fears of > those who consider themselves devout. And it just > might inspire pagan, humanist and science-based groups > to start their own charity programs, as a way of > connecting people to groups who are compatible and can > provide temporary work. > > If it is impossible for liberals to take control of > government safety nets (which may not be easy to save, > either way), liberals will then have to focus on > community building, educational and social projects, > privately funded charity and the illumination of a > social conscience. There, they will excel. > > Michael > > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > The all-new My Yahoo! - Get yours free! > http://my.yahoo.com > > > _______________________________________________ > paleopsych mailing list > paleopsych at paleopsych.org > http://lists.paleopsych.org/mailman/listinfo/paleopsych -- ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? "I am in a very sad position. I do not see any freedom or any democracy. If this could lead into a freedom, it is a freedom with blood. It is a freedom of emotions of sadness. It is a freedom of killing. You cannot gain democracy through blood or killing. You do not find the freedom that way." - Abu Talat, 19 Nov 2004 (after the raid of Abu Hanifa mosque) _____________________________________________________________________ ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? From shovland at mindspring.com Fri Dec 10 03:36:24 2004 From: shovland at mindspring.com (Steve Hovland) Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 19:36:24 -0800 Subject: [Paleopsych] charity Message-ID: <01C4DE26.5E7647F0.shovland@mindspring.com> The concept of good government has not been invalidated by the pervasive corruption that we now see. Only right-wing crazies believe that government is inherently bad. Sane people realize that government at its best serves our common interests. To give just one example, governments are quite good at providing safe tap water, and experiments at privatizing this function have been abject failures. Steve Hovland www.stevehovland.net -----Original Message----- From: Christian Rauh [SMTP:christian.rauh at uconn.edu] Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 5:02 PM To: The new improved paleopsych list Subject: Re: [Paleopsych] charity It is interesting that because government has lost so much credibility the option is to create... another government! Christian Michael Christopher wrote: >>>If a welfare check came with a work requirement, > > would that be a desirable influence on behavior? If > someone gets help from private individuals or > faith-based groups, he has to dance to their tune just > as much as he would have to dance to the government's > tune to get help from it.<< > > --I don't think anyone rejects the idea of people > doing temp work to earn welfare, except people who are > categorically against welfare. It's hard for many > people to get or keep a job, for whatever reasons, and > day work is one way to get people to work, knowing > they won't be fired or jerked around in order to feed > themselves. > > I'm sure Christian churches will be totally > even-handed in their treatment of the poor and > homeless who come to them when government safety nets > fail, whether they accept Jesus or reject > Christianity. > > It would be a fun experiment, getting two people to > approach a church for help, one adapting well to > Christian beliefs and the other questioning > Christianity and advocating some other faith or > atheism, politely but without budging on dogma. I'm > sure they'd both be treated with equal kindness and > charity. Surely the Christian drive to end welfare and > make churches the leading economic and social safety > net isn't just a cynical ploy to get converts. If it > is, we'll soon know. The influx of needy people will > quickly reveal the prejudices and deeper fears of > those who consider themselves devout. And it just > might inspire pagan, humanist and science-based groups > to start their own charity programs, as a way of > connecting people to groups who are compatible and can > provide temporary work. > > If it is impossible for liberals to take control of > government safety nets (which may not be easy to save, > either way), liberals will then have to focus on > community building, educational and social projects, > privately funded charity and the illumination of a > social conscience. There, they will excel. > > Michael > > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > The all-new My Yahoo! - Get yours free! > http://my.yahoo.com > > > _______________________________________________ > paleopsych mailing list > paleopsych at paleopsych.org > http://lists.paleopsych.org/mailman/listinfo/paleopsych -- ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? "I am in a very sad position. I do not see any freedom or any democracy. If this could lead into a freedom, it is a freedom with blood. It is a freedom of emotions of sadness. It is a freedom of killing. You cannot gain democracy through blood or killing. You do not find the freedom that way." - Abu Talat, 19 Nov 2004 (after the raid of Abu Hanifa mosque) _____________________________________________________________________ ???????????????????????????????$o$??????????????????????????????????? _______________________________________________ paleopsych mailing list paleopsych at paleopsych.org http://lists.paleopsych.org/mailman/listinfo/paleopsych From shovland at mindspring.com Fri Dec 10 05:03:39 2004 From: shovland at mindspring.com (Steve Hovland) Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 21:03:39 -0800 Subject: [Paleopsych] Eyebit: Gay Rights Message-ID: <01C4DE32.8F2B7EE0.shovland@mindspring.com> Steve Hovland www.stevehovland.net -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 104880 bytes Desc: not available URL: From shovland at mindspring.com Sat Dec 11 02:32:35 2004 From: shovland at mindspring.com (Steve Hovland) Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 18:32:35 -0800 Subject: [Paleopsych] An interesting Flash piece Message-ID: <01C4DEE6.9F1C4190.shovland@mindspring.com> http://www.llangley.com/yoga/wisdom/rightnow[2].htm Steve Hovland www.stevehovland.net From waluk at earthlink.net Sat Dec 11 03:19:41 2004 From: waluk at earthlink.net (Geraldine Reinhardt) Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 19:19:41 -0800 Subject: [Paleopsych] An interesting Flash piece References: <01C4DEE6.9F1C4190.shovland@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <048201c4df30$426cb020$4400f604@S0027397558> Steve, This was absolutely uplifting. The beauty with which this production addressed needs to be recognized. The words, scenery and music gave me a new awareness. For anyone looking for purpose, here it is. Gerry http://www.home.earthlink.net/~waluk ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Hovland" To: "paleopsych at paleopsych. org (E-mail)" Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 6:32 PM Subject: [Paleopsych] An interesting Flash piece > http://www.llangley.com/yoga/wisdom/rightnow[2].htm > > Steve Hovland > www.stevehovland.net > > > _______________________________________________ > paleopsych mailing list > paleopsych at paleopsych.org > http://lists.paleopsych.org/mailman/listinfo/paleopsych > From shovland at mindspring.com Sat Dec 11 04:39:52 2004 From: shovland at mindspring.com (Steve Hovland) Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 20:39:52 -0800 Subject: [Paleopsych] Sean Hannidy is not Gay, and other propaganda techniques Message-ID: <01C4DEF8.671FCED0.shovland@mindspring.com> Propaganda Techniques by Henry Conserva. 89 ways to mortify your enemies and encourage your friends. Also of interest because this is an example of on-demand publishing, the most up-to-date way to distribute books. Steve Hovland www.stevehovland.net From shovland at mindspring.com Sun Dec 12 18:32:51 2004 From: shovland at mindspring.com (Steve Hovland) Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2004 10:32:51 -0800 Subject: [Paleopsych] Flight of the Fire Bird Message-ID: <01C4E035.EF9E8B50.shovland@mindspring.com> Steve Hovland www.stevehovland.net -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 116530 bytes Desc: not available URL: From shovland at mindspring.com Mon Dec 13 17:09:00 2004 From: shovland at mindspring.com (Steve Hovland) Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 09:09:00 -0800 Subject: [Paleopsych] eyebit: Trade Deficits Message-ID: <01C4E0F3.639991E0.shovland@mindspring.com> Steve Hovland www.stevehovland.net -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 105565 bytes Desc: not available URL: From shovland at mindspring.com Wed Dec 15 05:07:01 2004 From: shovland at mindspring.com (Steve Hovland) Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 21:07:01 -0800 Subject: [Paleopsych] Cognitive Science: Bartlett's View of the Group as a Psychological Unit Message-ID: <01C4E220.DBA85710.shovland@mindspring.com> http://cogprints.org/666/00/110.htm William J. Clancey Institute for Research on Learning 2550 Hanover Street Palo Alto, CA 94304 AAAI Fall Symposium on Knowledge and Action at Social and Organizational Levels, Asilomar, CA, AAAI Press, 20-22, 1991. Frederic C. Bartlett pioneered studies relating individual and group behavior. His memory experiments in particular suggest that cognition is, in his terms, a "socially constructive" process (1932, pps. 274-280): coordination functions in activity, not in the individual mind; contributions that stand must be part of a group trend; an individual acquires greater influence in a complex community; swift insight changes the group, but details in working out ideas emerge, dependent on the "form and trend of the group before the achievement is effected"; design rationale for artifacts emerges from practice (rather than being exclusively generative of the device); modifications to an instrument develop in practice (and so cannot be att ributed exclusively to an individual or a linear aggregation of individual contributions). Bartlett draws a strong parallel between social development and an individual's design activity. First, an artist isn't merely executing a preconception, but necessarily improvises, reperceiving the ongoing trend of his drawing, interpreting its force and meaning, and incrementally adding or reshaping what is there. "Having started his design, the rest of the figure must fall into a certain harmony of outline and balance of parts which, of course, limit individual choice." That is, the artist's own drawing action is constrained by the trends he has himself produced. Not just any contribution will do. Furthermore, the characteristics of the drawing are themselves a realization of cultural practices, values, and activities. Understanding social practice as development within trends necessarily involves understanding development of the individual in a social environment. But Bartlett leaves open the "exact relation to individual effort" of social constructiveness. He suggests that the process of assimilation, simplification, attention to odd details, and creation of characteristic complexes reflects mental processes of individuals. Obviously, every statement in a conversation or line in a drawing is somehow constrained by neural processes (or I could travel to a foreign country and immediately speak the language). But also, sense-making and comprehension is something each individual must accomplish as he or she interacts within a group. Building on Bartlett's model of remembering, I have developed a notation that represents the dialectic process of coordinating perception and action in the individual. The key ideas are that human memory is not a place where representations are stored, and categories are not things, but always new ways of coordinating perception and action, generalized and composed in the process of activity itself. From HowlBloom at aol.com Wed Dec 15 05:20:51 2004 From: HowlBloom at aol.com (HowlBloom at aol.com) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 00:20:51 EST Subject: [Paleopsych] inner judges on the rampage Message-ID: <7f.53651d47.2ef123b3@aol.com> If the theory put forth in my first book, The Lucifer Principle: A Scientific Expedition Into the Forces of History, is at all correct, evolution has riddled us with self-destruct mechanisms, mechanisms that do away with us when we are not a part of the solution, we are part of the problem. By shutting us down, our self-destruct mechanisms shunt resources to those who have a handle on the crisis at hand and snatches the goods away from those who can?t get a grip on things. She turns on those who contribute to the neural net, to the complex adaptive system, to the collective learning machine?just as she hands out bio-prizes to useful citizens of the immune system, lymphocytes and bio-punishments to citizens whose specialization is momentarily irrelevant. Evolution, biology, physiology, or whatever you choose to call our stress mechanism and her grim reapers do this to maximize the intelligence of the collective enterprise. In the case of the immune system, some are made wealthy and vigorous, and some are made weak and imporvished so that the overall system can defeat invaders. The key determiner of whether you are of value or not seems to be the extent to which you feel you have control. Is the fact that, ?The pressure of meeting a work deadline can produce a sixfold increase in the risk of suffering a heart attack over the course of the following day. And competition at work could double the ongoing risk? an example of a self-destruct mechanism at work? Has evolution done what my second book, Global Brain: The Evolution of Mass Mind From The Big Bang to the 21st Century, claims? Has it seated inner judges within us to determine who wins and loses the competition and who is and is not up to the challenge-of-the-day? Howard Retrieved December 15, 2004, from the World Wide Web _http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99996786_ (http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99996786) Stressful deadlines boost heart attack risk 00:01 14 December 04 NewScientist.com news service The pressure of meeting a work deadline can produce a sixfold increase in the risk of suffering a heart attack over the course of the following day. And competition at work could double the ongoing risk, according to a new study. Previous research has shown that intense anger, sexual activity and emotional stress can all lead to heart attacks. But this is the first time having an intense work deadline has been singled out as a trigger for heart attack over such a short timescale. ?This is potentially important for patients and for Swedish work law,? says lead author Jette M?ller of the Karolinska Institutet in Stockholm, Sweden. ?Changes in the labour market organisation have created more stress and people should be aware of the impact on health.? She cites workload, lower job security and increased competition in the workplace as factors. The study questioned nearly 1400 heart attack survivors from the Stockholm area, aged 45 to 70, about the period leading up to their first heart attack. They were compared with a control group of about 1700 people who had not had a heart attack. The volunteers were asked questions about their work over the last year and over the days immediately before their heart attack. The questions included whether they had been criticised for their performance or lateness, been promoted or laid off, faced a high-pressure deadline at work, changed their workplace and whether their financial situation had changed. Money worries The results show that intense pressure over a short period increased the risk of a heart attack more than a build up of stress over an entire year, and that the heart attack can follow very soon after this spell of increased pressure. Amongst the heart attack group, 8% had faced a significant event at work less than 24 hours before their attack. However, long-term changes also play a part. Taking on extra responsibility at work over the last year - if viewed negatively by the participant - increased the chance of a heart attack by almost four times in women and over six times in men. And a deterioration in financial situation tripled the risk of a heart attack amongst women. Subscribe to New Scientist for more news and features Related Stories Downsizing raises risk of death in workers 23 February 2004 Science graduates live long and prosper 01 August 2003 Unfair bosses make blood pressure soar 24 June 2003 For more related stories search the print edition Archive Weblinks Social Epidemiology Research, Karolinska Institutet, Stockholm George Fieldman, Buckinghamshire Chilterns University College Journal of Epidemiology and Community Health George Fieldman, an expert in cognitive therapy and health psychology at Buckinghamshire Chilterns University College in the UK, says the sixfold increase in risk caused by meeting a deadline is massive, but not surprising. He points out that previous research has shown that a person?s chance of suffering a heart attack is higher on a Monday morning. He adds these studies can help to pinpoint the stress risk factors for heart attacks. ?It is difficult to unpick the details of what constitutes stress for different people in different situations,? he says. The study shows that stress at work can pose a very real and immediate threat to health, Fieldman says, and adds: ?I must remember to take it easy.? Journal reference: Journal of Epidemiology and Community Health (DOI: 10.1136/jech.2003.019349) Katharine Davis ---------- Howard Bloom Author of The Lucifer Principle: A Scientific Expedition Into the Forces of History and Global Brain: The Evolution of Mass Mind From The Big Bang to the 21st Century Visiting Scholar-Graduate Psychology Department, New York University; Core Faculty Member, The Graduate Institute www.howardbloom.net www.bigbangtango.net Founder: International Paleopsychology Project; founding board member: Epic of Evolution Society; founding board member, The Darwin Project; founder: The Big Bang Tango Media Lab; member: New York Academy of Sciences, American Association for the Advancement of Science, American Psychological Society, Academy of Political Science, Human Behavior and Evolution Society, International Society for Human Ethology; advisory board member: Youthactivism.org; executive editor -- New Paradigm book series. For information on The International Paleopsychology Project, see: www.paleopsych.org for two chapters from The Lucifer Principle: A Scientific Expedition Into the Forces of History, see www.howardbloom.net/lucifer For information on Global Brain: The Evolution of Mass Mind from the Big Bang to the 21st Century, see www.howardbloom.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paul.werbos at verizon.net Wed Dec 15 13:11:28 2004 From: paul.werbos at verizon.net (Paul J. Werbos, Dr.) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 08:11:28 -0500 Subject: [Paleopsych] inner judges:let's get the logic straight In-Reply-To: <7f.53651d47.2ef123b3@aol.com> References: <7f.53651d47.2ef123b3@aol.com> Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.0.20041215080335.01ddbe20@incoming.verizon.net> At 12:20 AM 12/15/2004, HowlBloom at aol.com wrote: >If the theory put forth in my first book, The Lucifer Principle: A >Scientific Expedition Into the Forces of History, is at all correct, >evolution has riddled us with self-destruct mechanisms, mechanisms that do >away with us when we are not a part of the solution, we are part of the >problem. By shutting us down, our self-destruct mechanisms shunt >resources to those who have a handle on the crisis at hand and snatches >the goods away from those who can???t get a grip on things. She turns on >those who contribute to the neural net, to the complex adaptive system, to >the collective learning machine?just as she hands out bio-prizes to useful >citizens of the iimmune system, lymphocytes and bio-punishments to >citizens whose specialization is momentarily irrelevant. Evolution, >biology, physiology, or whatever you choose to call our stress mechanism >and her grim reapers do this to maximize the intelligence of the >collective enterprise. In the case of the immune system, some are made >wealthy and vigorous, and some are made weak and imporvished so that the >overall system can defeat invaders. > > > >The key determiner of whether you are of value or not seems to be the >extent to which you feel you have control. > > > >Is the fact that, > > > >???The pressure of meeting a work deadline can produce a sixfold increase >in the risk of suffering a heart attack over the course of the following >day. And competition at work could double the ongoing risk??? > > > >an example of a self-destruct mechanism at work? Has evolution done what >my second book, Global Brain: The Evolution of Mass Mind From The Big Bang >to the 21st Century, claims? Has it seated inner judges within us to >determine who wins and loses the competition and who is and is not up to >the challenge-of-the-day? Howard > > > >Retrieved December 15, 2004, from the World Wide >Web >http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99996786 > > Stressful deadlines boost heart attack risk 00:01 14 December 04 > NewScientist.com news service The pressure of meeting a work deadline can > produce a sixfold increase in the risk of suffering a heart attack over > the course of the following day. And competition at work could double the > ongoing risk, according to a new study. Previous research has shown that > intense anger, sexual activity and emotional stress can all lead to heart > attacks. There is a big disconnect between the original study or data and the proposed extension. The proposed extension suggests, in effect, that folks who respond with zest to the challenge of VC dominion on Wall Street will survive, while podunks out in Pennsylvania will die off. But where do they have more of these deadlines she talks about? Does not the desire to conquer and be in control -- the "Nietzscheian imperative" -- encourage more venting and manifestation and cultivation of angers in all forms? What's weird to me is when people endorse that perversion of the human way of life, and somehow claim that they are advancing the agenda of Jesus Christ. The real question for psychology is how people can live with such obvious glaring internal inconsistencies. At a first cut, you could call it tolerance of cognitive dissonance. But there is more to it than that. >But this is the first time having an intense work deadline has been >singled out as a trigger for heart attack over such a short >timescale. ???This is potentially important for patients and for Swedish >work law,??? says lead author Jette M??ller of the Karolinska Institutet >in Stockholm, Sweden. ???Changes in the labour market organisation have >created more stress and people should be aware of the impact on health.??? >She cites workload, lower job security and increased competition in the >workplace as factors. The study questioned nearly 1400 heart attack >survivors from the Stockholm area, aged 45 to 70, about the period leading >up to their first heart attack. They were compared with a control group of >about 1700 people who had not had a heart attack. The volunteers were >asked questions about their work over the last year and over the days >immediately before their heart attack. The questions included whether they >had been criticised for their performance or lateness, been promoted or >laid off, faced a high-pressure deadline at work, changed their workplace >and whether their financial situation had changed. Money worries The >results show that intense pressure over a short period increased the risk >of a heart attack more than a build up of stress over an entire year, and >that the heart attack can follow very soon after this spell of increased >pressure. Amongst the heart attack group, 8% had faced a significant event >at work less than 24 hours before their attack. However, long-term >changes also play a part. Taking on extra responsibility at work over the >last year - if viewed negatively by the participant - increased the chance >of a heart attack by almost four times in women and over six times in men. >And a deterioration in financial situation tripled the risk of a heart >attack amongst women. Subscribe to New Scientist for more news and >features Related Stories Downsizing raises risk of death in workers 23 >February 2004 Science graduates live long and prosper 01 August >2003 Unfair bosses make blood pressure soar 24 June 2003 For more >related stories search the print edition Archive Weblinks Social >Epidemiology Research, Karolinska Institutet, Stockholm George Fieldman, >Buckinghamshire Chilterns University College Journal of Epidemiology and >Community Health George Fieldman, an expert in cognitive therapy and >health psychology at Buckinghamshire Chilterns University College in the >UK, says the sixfold increase in risk caused by meeting a deadline is >massive, but not surprising. He points out that previous research has >shown that a person???s chance of suffering a heart attack is higher on a >Monday morning. He adds these studies can help to pinpoint the stress risk >factors for heart attacks. ???It is difficult to unpick the details of >what constitutes stress for different people in different situations,??? >he says. The study shows that stress at work can pose a very real and >immediate threat to health, Fieldman says, and adds: ???I must remember to >take it easy.??? Journal reference: Journal of Epidemiology and Community >Health (DOI: 10.1136/jech.2003.019349) Katharine Davis > > > >---------- >Howard Bloom >Author of The Lucifer Principle: A Scientific Expedition Into the Forces >of History and Global Brain: The Evolution of Mass Mind From The Big Bang >to the 21st Century >Visiting Scholar-Graduate Psychology Department, New York University; Core >Faculty Member, The Graduate Institute >www.howardbloom.net >www.bigbangtango.net >Founder: International Paleopsychology Project; founding board member: >Epic of Evolution Society; founding board member, The Darwin Project; >founder: The Big Bang Tango Media Lab; member: New York Academy of >Sciences, American Association for the Advancement of Science, American >Psychological Society, Academy of Political Science, Human Behavior and >Evolution Society, International Society for Human Ethology; advisory >board member: Youthactivism.org; executive editor -- New Paradigm book series. >For information on The International Paleopsychology Project, see: >www.paleopsych.org >for two chapters from >The Lucifer Principle: A Scientific Expedition Into the Forces of History, >see www.howardbloom.net/lucifer >For information on Global Brain: The Evolution of Mass Mind from the Big >Bang to the 21st Century, see www.howardbloom.net >_______________________________________________ >paleopsych mailing list >paleopsych at paleopsych.org >http://lists.paleopsych.org/mailman/listinfo/paleopsych -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ross.buck at uconn.edu Wed Dec 15 16:35:32 2004 From: ross.buck at uconn.edu (Ross Buck) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 11:35:32 -0500 Subject: [Paleopsych] inner judges on the rampage In-Reply-To: <7f.53651d47.2ef123b3@aol.com> Message-ID: <200412151635.iBFGZj007528@tick.javien.com> Howard: I agree with that control (competence) is a key determinant of whether one is of value or not, but it is only half the picture. The other is being loved. Effectance/competence motivation and attachment-love are the two great biomotivators of higher-level emotions/motives in human beings (and other creatures), and I think they are fully dissociable. I have hypothesized that a lack of control is associated with Type A major depression (associated with low catecholamines) and a lack of love is associated with Type B major depression (associated with low serotonin). These are ancient mechanisms: serotonin will turn on threat displays in lobsters, and SSRIs are effective for many (not all) depressions. All else equal, men may be more susceptible to Type A depression and women to Type B, and there is recent evidence that depression is associated with right-hemisphere mechanisms in men and left-hemisphere mechanisms in women. I think the LH is particularly associated with prosocial emotions (including the emotions/motives underlying the learning, teaching, and use of language) and the RH with individualist emotions/motives. Cheers, Ross References: Buck, R. (1999). The biological affects: A typology. Psychological Review. 106(2), 301-336. Buck, R. (2002). The genetics and biology of true love: Prosocial biological affects and the left hemisphere. Psychological Review. 109(4). 739-744. Ross Buck, Ph. D. Professor of Communication Sciences and Psychology Communication Sciences U-1085 University of Connecticut Storrs, CT 06269-1085 860-486-4494 fax 860-486-5422 buck at uconnvm.uconn.edu http://www.coms.uconn.edu/docs/people/faculty/rbuck/index.htm "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction." -- Blaise Pascal _____ From: paleopsych-bounces at paleopsych.org [mailto:paleopsych-bounces at paleopsych.org] On Behalf Of HowlBloom at aol.com Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 12:21 AM To: paleopsych at paleopsych.org Subject: [Paleopsych] inner judges on the rampage If the theory put forth in my first book, The Lucifer Principle: A Scientific Expedition Into the Forces of History, is at all correct, evolution has riddled us with self-destruct mechanisms, mechanisms that do away with us when we are not a part of the solution, we are part of the problem. By shutting us down, our self-destruct mechanisms shunt resources to those who have a handle on the crisis at hand and snatches the goods away from those who can?t get a grip on things. She turns on those who contribute to the neural net, to the complex adaptive system, to the collective learning machine?just as she hands out bio-prizes to useful citizens of the immune system, lymphocytes and bio-punishments to citizens whose specialization is momentarily irrelevant. Evolution, biology, physiology, or whatever you choose to call our stress mechanism and her grim reapers do this to maximize the intelligence of the collective enterprise. In the case of the immune system, some are made wealthy and vigorous, and some are made weak and imporvished so that the overall system can defeat invaders. The key determiner of whether you are of value or not seems to be the extent to which you feel you have control. Is the fact that, ?The pressure of meeting a work deadline can produce a sixfold increase in the risk of suffering a heart attack over the course of the following day. And competition at work could double the ongoing risk? an example of a self-destruct mechanism at work? Has evolution done what my second book, Global Brain: The Evolution of Mass Mind From The Big Bang to the 21st Century, claims? Has it seated inner judges within us to determine who wins and loses the competition and who is and is not up to the challenge-of-the-day? Howard Retrieved December 15, 2004, from the World Wide Web http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99996786 Stressful deadlines boost heart attack risk 00:01 14 December 04 NewScientist.com news service The pressure of meeting a work deadline can produce a sixfold increase in the risk of suffering a heart attack over the course of the following day. And competition at work could double the ongoing risk, according to a new study. Previous research has shown that intense anger, sexual activity and emotional stress can all lead to heart attacks. But this is the first time having an intense work deadline has been singled out as a trigger for heart attack over such a short timescale. ?This is potentially important for patients and for Swedish work law,? says lead author Jette M?ller of the Karolinska Institutet in Stockholm, Sweden. ?Changes in the labour market organisation have created more stress and people should be aware of the impact on health.? She cites workload, lower job security and increased competition in the workplace as factors. The study questioned nearly 1400 heart attack survivors from the Stockholm area, aged 45 to 70, about the period leading up to their first heart attack. They were compared with a control group of about 1700 people who had not had a heart attack. The volunteers were asked questions about their work over the last year and over the days immediately before their heart attack. The questions included whether they had been criticised for their performance or lateness, been promoted or laid off, faced a high-pressure deadline at work, changed their workplace and whether their financial situation had changed. Money worries The results show that intense pressure over a short period increased the risk of a heart attack more than a build up of stress over an entire year, and that the heart attack can follow very soon after this spell of increased pressure. Amongst the heart attack group, 8% had faced a significant event at work less than 24 hours before their attack. However, long-term changes also play a part. Taking on extra responsibility at work over the last year - if viewed negatively by the participant - increased the chance of a heart attack by almost four times in women and over six times in men. And a deterioration in financial situation tripled the risk of a heart attack amongst women. Subscribe to New Scientist for more news and features Related Stories Downsizing raises risk of death in workers 23 February 2004 Science graduates live long and prosper 01 August 2003 Unfair bosses make blood pressure soar 24 June 2003 For more related stories search the print edition Archive Weblinks Social Epidemiology Research, Karolinska Institutet, Stockholm George Fieldman, Buckinghamshire Chilterns University College Journal of Epidemiology and Community Health George Fieldman, an expert in cognitive therapy and health psychology at Buckinghamshire Chilterns University College in the UK, says the sixfold increase in risk caused by meeting a deadline is massive, but not surprising. He points out that previous research has shown that a person?s chance of suffering a heart attack is higher on a Monday morning. He adds these studies can help to pinpoint the stress risk factors for heart attacks. ?It is difficult to unpick the details of what constitutes stress for different people in different situations,? he says. The study shows that stress at work can pose a very real and immediate threat to health, Fieldman says, and adds: ?I must remember to take it easy.? Journal reference: Journal of Epidemiology and Community Health (DOI: 10.1136/jech.2003.019349) Katharine Davis ---------- Howard Bloom Author of The Lucifer Principle: A Scientific Expedition Into the Forces of History and Global Brain: The Evolution of Mass Mind From The Big Bang to the 21st Century Visiting Scholar-Graduate Psychology Department, New York University; Core Faculty Member, The Graduate Institute www.howardbloom.net www.bigbangtango.net Founder: International Paleopsychology Project; founding board member: Epic of Evolution Society; founding board member, The Darwin Project; founder: The Big Bang Tango Media Lab; member: New York Academy of Sciences, American Association for the Advancement of Science, American Psychological Society, Academy of Political Science, Human Behavior and Evolution Society, International Society for Human Ethology; advisory board member: Youthactivism.org; executive editor -- New Paradigm book series. For information on The International Paleopsychology Project, see: www.paleopsych.org for two chapters from The Lucifer Principle: A Scientific Expedition Into the Forces of History, see www.howardbloom.net/lucifer For information on Global Brain: The Evolution of Mass Mind from the Big Bang to the 21st Century, see www.howardbloom.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From shovland at mindspring.com Thu Dec 16 01:56:44 2004 From: shovland at mindspring.com (Steve Hovland) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 17:56:44 -0800 Subject: [Paleopsych] inner judges on the rampage Message-ID: <01C4E2CF.70E5C2F0.shovland@mindspring.com> The effect of stress I think depends on the quality of the pressure. Awhile ago I had a very bad time on an engagement at Stanford because my supervisor applied pressure in a toxic way. It was giving me stress-related chest pains, so I basically quit. At the moment I am on an engagement at Genentech where we are under pressure to get some stuff done by the 23rd, but my boss in this case didn't start about by telling me he didn't like me and doesn't come around every 5 minutes saying things gotta get done. Feeling in control is important, but taking control of yourself in a situation is just as important as being in control of the situation. A lot of people are feeling out of control in regard to the recent election. I feel like I am in control of my efforts to wage guerilla warfare on the minds of my opponents :-) Steve Hovland www.stevehovland.net -----Original Message----- From: HowlBloom at aol.com [SMTP:HowlBloom at aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2004 9:21 PM To: paleopsych at paleopsych.org Subject: [Paleopsych] inner judges on the rampage << File: ATT00000.txt; charset = UTF-8 >> << File: ATT00001.html; charset = UTF-8 >> << File: ATT00002.txt >> From shovland at mindspring.com Thu Dec 16 02:16:10 2004 From: shovland at mindspring.com (Steve Hovland) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 18:16:10 -0800 Subject: [Paleopsych] inner judges:let's get the logic straight Message-ID: <01C4E2D2.27C72A70.shovland@mindspring.com> Nazi concentration camp guards could spend their days killing Jews and then go home to play affectionately with their children. Compartmentalization, perhaps to the point of insanity. Steve Hovland www.stevehovland.net -----Original Message----- From: Paul J. Werbos, Dr. [SMTP:paul.werbos at verizon.net] Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 5:11 AM To: The new improved paleopsych list; paleopsych at paleopsych.org Subject: Re: [Paleopsych] inner judges:let's get the logic straight At 12:20 AM 12/15/2004, HowlBloom at aol.com wrote: >If the theory put forth in my first book, The Lucifer Principle: A >Scientific Expedition Into the Forces of History, is at all correct, >evolution has riddled us with self-destruct mechanisms, mechanisms that do >away with us when we are not a part of the solution, we are part of the >problem. By shutting us down, our self-destruct mechanisms shunt >resources to those who have a handle on the crisis at hand and snatches >the goods away from those who cana??t get a grip on things. She turns on >those who contribute to the neural net, to the complex adaptive system, to >the collective learning machine-just as she hands out bio-prizes to useful >citizens of the iimmune system, lymphocytes and bio-punishments to >citizens whose specialization is momentarily irrelevant. Evolution, >biology, physiology, or whatever you choose to call our stress mechanism >and her grim reapers do this to maximize the intelligence of the >collective enterprise. In the case of the immune system, some are made >wealthy and vigorous, and some are made weak and imporvished so that the >overall system can defeat invaders. > > > >The key determiner of whether you are of value or not seems to be the >extent to which you feel you have control. > > > >Is the fact that, > > > >a??The pressure of meeting a work deadline can produce a sixfold increase >in the risk of suffering a heart attack over the course of the following >day. And competition at work could double the ongoing riska?? > > > >an example of a self-destruct mechanism at work? Has evolution done what >my second book, Global Brain: The Evolution of Mass Mind From The Big Bang >to the 21st Century, claims? Has it seated inner judges within us to >determine who wins and loses the competition and who is and is not up to >the challenge-of-the-day? Howard > > > >Retrieved December 15, 2004, from the World Wide >Web >http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99996786 > > Stressful deadlines boost heart attack risk 00:01 14 December 04 > NewScientist.com news service The pressure of meeting a work deadline can > produce a sixfold increase in the risk of suffering a heart attack over > the course of the following day. And competition at work could double the > ongoing risk, according to a new study. Previous research has shown that > intense anger, sexual activity and emotional stress can all lead to heart > attacks. There is a big disconnect between the original study or data and the proposed extension. The proposed extension suggests, in effect, that folks who respond with zest to the challenge of VC dominion on Wall Street will survive, while podunks out in Pennsylvania will die off. But where do they have more of these deadlines she talks about? Does not the desire to conquer and be in control -- the "Nietzscheian imperative" -- encourage more venting and manifestation and cultivation of angers in all forms? What's weird to me is when people endorse that perversion of the human way of life, and somehow claim that they are advancing the agenda of Jesus Christ. The real question for psychology is how people can live with such obvious glaring internal inconsistencies. At a first cut, you could call it tolerance of cognitive dissonance. But there is more to it than that. >But this is the first time having an intense work deadline has been >singled out as a trigger for heart attack over such a short >timescale. a??This is potentially important for patients and for Swedish >work law,a?? says lead author Jette MA?ller of the Karolinska Institutet >in Stockholm, Sweden. a??Changes in the labour market organisation have >created more stress and people should be aware of the impact on health.a?? >She cites workload, lower job security and increased competition in the >workplace as factors. The study questioned nearly 1400 heart attack >survivors from the Stockholm area, aged 45 to 70, about the period leading >up to their first heart attack. They were compared with a control group of >about 1700 people who had not had a heart attack. The volunteers were >asked questions about their work over the last year and over the days >immediately before their heart attack. The questions included whether they >had been criticised for their performance or lateness, been promoted or >laid off, faced a high-pressure deadline at work, changed their workplace >and whether their financial situation had changed. Money worries The >results show that intense pressure over a short period increased the risk >of a heart attack more than a build up of stress over an entire year, and >that the heart attack can follow very soon after this spell of increased >pressure. Amongst the heart attack group, 8% had faced a significant event >at work less than 24 hours before their attack. However, long-term >changes also play a part. Taking on extra responsibility at work over the >last year - if viewed negatively by the participant - increased the chance >of a heart attack by almost four times in women and over six times in men. >And a deterioration in financial situation tripled the risk of a heart >attack amongst women. Subscribe to New Scientist for more news and >features Related Stories Downsizing raises risk of death in workers 23 >February 2004 Science graduates live long and prosper 01 August >2003 Unfair bosses make blood pressure soar 24 June 2003 For more >related stories search the print edition Archive Weblinks Social >Epidemiology Research, Karolinska Institutet, Stockholm George Fieldman, >Buckinghamshire Chilterns University College Journal of Epidemiology and >Community Health George Fieldman, an expert in cognitive therapy and >health psychology at Buckinghamshire Chilterns University College in the >UK, says the sixfold increase in risk caused by meeting a deadline is >massive, but not surprising. He points out that previous research has >shown that a persona??s chance of suffering a heart attack is higher on a >Monday morning. He adds these studies can help to pinpoint the stress risk >factors for heart attacks. a??It is difficult to unpick the details of >what constitutes stress for different people in different situations,a?? >he says. The study shows that stress at work can pose a very real and >immediate threat to health, Fieldman says, and adds: a??I must remember to >take it easy.a?? Journal reference: Journal of Epidemiology and Community >Health (DOI: 10.1136/jech.2003.019349) Katharine Davis > > > >---------- >Howard Bloom >Author of The Lucifer Principle: A Scientific Expedition Into the Forces >of History and Global Brain: The Evolution of Mass Mind From The Big Bang >to the 21st Century >Visiting Scholar-Graduate Psychology Department, New York University; Core >Faculty Member, The Graduate Institute >www.howardbloom.net >www.bigbangtango.net >Founder: International Paleopsychology Project; founding board member: >Epic of Evolution Society; founding board member, The Darwin Project; >founder: The Big Bang Tango Media Lab; member: New York Academy of >Sciences, American Association for the Advancement of Science, American >Psychological Society, Academy of Political Science, Human Behavior and >Evolution Society, International Society for Human Ethology; advisory >board member: Youthactivism.org; executive editor -- New Paradigm book series. >For information on The International Paleopsychology Project, see: >www.paleopsych.org >for two chapters from >The Lucifer Principle: A Scientific Expedition Into the Forces of History, >see www.howardbloom.net/lucifer >For information on Global Brain: The Evolution of Mass Mind from the Big >Bang to the 21st Century, see www.howardbloom.net >_______________________________________________ >paleopsych mailing list >paleopsych at paleopsych.org >http://lists.paleopsych.org/mailman/listinfo/paleopsych << File: ATT00021.html >> << File: ATT00022.txt >> From shovland at mindspring.com Thu Dec 16 02:18:49 2004 From: shovland at mindspring.com (Steve Hovland) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 18:18:49 -0800 Subject: [Paleopsych] inner judges on the rampage Message-ID: <01C4E2D2.8712EAF0.shovland@mindspring.com> Ross- do you think you will be able to find some hard science to confirm your theories about 2 forms of depression? Steve Hovland www.stevehovland.net -----Original Message----- From: Ross Buck [SMTP:ross.buck at uconn.edu] Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 8:36 AM To: 'The new improved paleopsych list'; HowlBloom at aol.com Subject: RE: [Paleopsych] inner judges on the rampage Howard: I agree with that control (competence) is a key determinant of whether one is of value or not, but it is only half the picture. The other is being loved. Effectance/competence motivation and attachment-love are the two great biomotivators of higher-level emotions/motives in human beings (and other creatures), and I think they are fully dissociable. I have hypothesized that a lack of control is associated with Type A major depression (associated with low catecholamines) and a lack of love is associated with Type B major depression (associated with low serotonin). These are ancient mechanisms: serotonin will turn on threat displays in lobsters, and SSRIs are effective for many (not all) depressions. All else equal, men may be more susceptible to Type A depression and women to Type B, and there is recent evidence that depression is associated with right-hemisphere mechanisms in men and left-hemisphere mechanisms in women. I think the LH is particularly associated with prosocial emotions (including the emotions/motives underlying the learning, teaching, and use of language) and the RH with individualist emotions/motives. Cheers, Ross References: Buck, R. (1999). The biological affects: A typology. Psychological Review. 106(2), 301-336. Buck, R. (2002). The genetics and biology of true love: Prosocial biological affects and the left hemisphere. Psychological Review. 109(4). 739-744. Ross Buck, Ph. D. Professor of Communication Sciences and Psychology Communication Sciences U-1085 University of Connecticut Storrs, CT 06269-1085 860-486-4494 fax 860-486-5422 buck at uconnvm.uconn.edu http://www.coms.uconn.edu/docs/people/faculty/rbuck/index.htm "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction." -- Blaise Pascal _____ From: paleopsych-bounces at paleopsych.org [mailto:paleopsych-bounces at paleopsych.org] On Behalf Of HowlBloom at aol.com Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 12:21 AM To: paleopsych at paleopsych.org Subject: [Paleopsych] inner judges on the rampage If the theory put forth in my first book, The Lucifer Principle: A Scientific Expedition Into the Forces of History, is at all correct, evolution has riddled us with self-destruct mechanisms, mechanisms that do away with us when we are not a part of the solution, we are part of the problem. By shutting us down, our self-destruct mechanisms shunt resources to those who have a handle on the crisis at hand and snatches the goods away from those who can't get a grip on things. She turns on those who contribute to the neural net, to the complex adaptive system, to the collective learning machine-just as she hands out bio-prizes to useful citizens of the immune system, lymphocytes and bio-punishments to citizens whose specialization is momentarily irrelevant. Evolution, biology, physiology, or whatever you choose to call our stress mechanism and her grim reapers do this to maximize the intelligence of the collective enterprise. In the case of the immune system, some are made wealthy and vigorous, and some are made weak and imporvished so that the overall system can defeat invaders. The key determiner of whether you are of value or not seems to be the extent to which you feel you have control. Is the fact that, "The pressure of meeting a work deadline can produce a sixfold increase in the risk of suffering a heart attack over the course of the following day. And competition at work could double the ongoing risk" an example of a self-destruct mechanism at work? Has evolution done what my second book, Global Brain: The Evolution of Mass Mind From The Big Bang to the 21st Century, claims? Has it seated inner judges within us to determine who wins and loses the competition and who is and is not up to the challenge-of-the-day? Howard Retrieved December 15, 2004, from the World Wide Web http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99996786 Stressful deadlines boost heart attack risk 00:01 14 December 04 NewScientist.com news service The pressure of meeting a work deadline can produce a sixfold increase in the risk of suffering a heart attack over the course of the following day. And competition at work could double the ongoing risk, according to a new study. Previous research has shown that intense anger, sexual activity and emotional stress can all lead to heart attacks. But this is the first time having an intense work deadline has been singled out as a trigger for heart attack over such a short timescale. "This is potentially important for patients and for Swedish work law," says lead author Jette Moller of the Karolinska Institutet in Stockholm, Sweden. "Changes in the labour market organisation have created more stress and people should be aware of the impact on health." She cites workload, lower job security and increased competition in the workplace as factors. The study questioned nearly 1400 heart attack survivors from the Stockholm area, aged 45 to 70, about the period leading up to their first heart attack. They were compared with a control group of about 1700 people who had not had a heart attack. The volunteers were asked questions about their work over the last year and over the days immediately before their heart attack. The questions included whether they had been criticised for their performance or lateness, been promoted or laid off, faced a high-pressure deadline at work, changed their workplace and whether their financial situation had changed. Money worries The results show that intense pressure over a short period increased the risk of a heart attack more than a build up of stress over an entire year, and that the heart attack can follow very soon after this spell of increased pressure. Amongst the heart attack group, 8% had faced a significant event at work less than 24 hours before their attack. However, long-term changes also play a part. Taking on extra responsibility at work over the last year - if viewed negatively by the participant - increased the chance of a heart attack by almost four times in women and over six times in men. And a deterioration in financial situation tripled the risk of a heart attack amongst women. Subscribe to New Scientist for more news and features Related Stories Downsizing raises risk of death in workers 23 February 2004 Science graduates live long and prosper 01 August 2003 Unfair bosses make blood pressure soar 24 June 2003 For more related stories search the print edition Archive Weblinks Social Epidemiology Research, Karolinska Institutet, Stockholm George Fieldman, Buckinghamshire Chilterns University College Journal of Epidemiology and Community Health George Fieldman, an expert in cognitive therapy and health psychology at Buckinghamshire Chilterns University College in the UK, says the sixfold increase in risk caused by meeting a deadline is massive, but not surprising. He points out that previous research has shown that a person's chance of suffering a heart attack is higher on a Monday morning. He adds these studies can help to pinpoint the stress risk factors for heart attacks. "It is difficult to unpick the details of what constitutes stress for different people in different situations," he says. The study shows that stress at work can pose a very real and immediate threat to health, Fieldman says, and adds: "I must remember to take it easy." Journal reference: Journal of Epidemiology and Community Health (DOI: 10.1136/jech.2003.019349) Katharine Davis ---------- Howard Bloom Author of The Lucifer Principle: A Scientific Expedition Into the Forces of History and Global Brain: The Evolution of Mass Mind From The Big Bang to the 21st Century Visiting Scholar-Graduate Psychology Department, New York University; Core Faculty Member, The Graduate Institute www.howardbloom.net www.bigbangtango.net Founder: International Paleopsychology Project; founding board member: Epic of Evolution Society; founding board member, The Darwin Project; founder: The Big Bang Tango Media Lab; member: New York Academy of Sciences, American Association for the Advancement of Science, American Psychological Society, Academy of Political Science, Human Behavior and Evolution Society, International Society for Human Ethology; advisory board member: Youthactivism.org; executive editor -- New Paradigm book series. For information on The International Paleopsychology Project, see: www.paleopsych.org for two chapters from The Lucifer Principle: A Scientific Expedition Into the Forces of History, see www.howardbloom.net/lucifer For information on Global Brain: The Evolution of Mass Mind from the Big Bang to the 21st Century, see www.howardbloom.net << File: ATT00029.html >> << File: ATT00030.txt >> From shovland at mindspring.com Thu Dec 16 02:43:11 2004 From: shovland at mindspring.com (Steve Hovland) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 18:43:11 -0800 Subject: [Paleopsych] Value and Need as Organizing Factors in Perception (1947) Message-ID: <01C4E2D5.EE9414D0.shovland@mindspring.com> more at: http://psychclassics.yorku.ca/Bruner/Value/ Jerome S. Bruner and Cecile C. Goodman[1] Harvard University First published in Journal of Abnormal and Social Psychology, 42, 33-44. Throughout the history of modern psychology, until very recent times, perception has been treated as though the perceiver were a passive recording instrument of rather complex design. One might, in most experiments, describe him in much the same graphical terms as one uses to describe the latest piece of recording apparatus obtainable from Stoelting or the American Optical Company. Such psychology, practiced as it were in vitro, has fallen short of clarifying the nature of perception in everyday life much as did the old nerve-muscle psychophysiology fall short of explaining behavior in everyday life. Both have been monumentally useful - in their place. The names of Weber, Fechner, Wundt, Titchener, Hecht, and Crozier are safely ensconced in any respectable psychological hall of fame. But their work, like the work of the nerve-muscle men, is only a beginning. For, as Professor Thurstone (35) has put it, "In these days when we insist so frequently on the interdependence of all aspects of personality, it would be difficult to maintain that any of these functions, such as perception, is isolated from the rest of the dynamical system that constitutes the person." The problem is, indeed, to understand how the process of perception is affected by other concurrent mental functions and how these functions in their turn are affected by the operation of perceptual processes. Given a dark room and a highly motivated subject, one has no difficulty in demonstrating Korte's Laws of phenomenal movement. Lead the subject from the dark room to the market place and then find out what it is he sees moving and under what conditions, and Korte's Laws, though still valid, describe the situation about as well as the Laws of Color Mixture describe one's feelings before an El Greco canvas. The discrepancy between the dark room and the market place we have in the past found it convenient to dismiss by invoking various dei ex machina: Attention, Apperception, Unbewusster Schluss, Einstellung, Preparatory Set, etc. Like the vengeful and unannounced step-brother from Australia in the poorer murder mysteries, they turn up at the crucial juncture to do the dirty work. Though such constructs are useful, perception itself must remain the primary focus. To shift attention away from it by invoking poorly understood intervening variables does little service. What we must study before invoking such variables are the variations perception itself undergoes when one is hungry, in love, in pain, or solving a problem. These variations are as much a part of the psychology of perception as Korte's Laws. It is the contention of this paper that such perceptual phenomena are as scientifically measurable in terms of appropriate metrics as such more hallowed phenomena as flicker fusion, constancy, or tonal attributes. But let [p. 34] us pause first to construct a sketchy terminology. Let us, in what ensues, distinguish heuristically between two types of perceptual determinants. These we shall call autochthonous and behavioral. Under the former we group those properties of the nervous system, highly predictable, which account for phenomena like simple pair formation, closure, and contrast, or at another level, tonal masking, difference and summation tones, flicker fusion, paradoxical cold, and binaural beats. Given ideal "dark-room" conditions and no compelling distractions, the "average" organism responds to set physical stimuli in these relatively fixed ways. Autochthonous determinants, in brief, reflect directly the characteristic electrochemical properties of sensory end organs and nervous tissue. From waluk at earthlink.net Thu Dec 16 03:50:08 2004 From: waluk at earthlink.net (Geraldine Reinhardt) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 19:50:08 -0800 Subject: [Paleopsych] inner judges on the rampage References: <01C4E2D2.8712EAF0.shovland@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <01df01c4e322$57409520$7903f604@S0027397558> I certainly hope so because my research is coincident to that of Ross. Low catecholamines is worth investigation as in low serotonin yet my bottom line is how to increase both chemicals. Is this done physically or psychologically? Gerry Reinhart-Waller Independent Scholar http://www.home.earthlink.net/~waluk ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Hovland" To: "'The new improved paleopsych list'" Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 6:18 PM Subject: RE: [Paleopsych] inner judges on the rampage > Ross- do you think you will be able to find > some hard science to confirm your theories > about 2 forms of depression? > > Steve Hovland > www.stevehovland.net > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ross Buck [SMTP:ross.buck at uconn.edu] > Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 8:36 AM > To: 'The new improved paleopsych list'; > HowlBloom at aol.com > Subject: RE: [Paleopsych] inner judges on the rampage > > Howard: > > > > I agree with that control (competence) is a key > determinant of whether one > is of value or not, but it is only half the picture. > The other is being > loved. Effectance/competence motivation and > attachment-love are the two > great biomotivators of higher-level emotions/motives > in human beings (and > other creatures), and I think they are fully > dissociable. I have > hypothesized that a lack of control is associated > with Type A major > depression (associated with low catecholamines) and a > lack of love is > associated with Type B major depression (associated > with low serotonin). > These are ancient mechanisms: serotonin will turn on > threat displays in > lobsters, and SSRIs are effective for many (not all) > depressions. All else > equal, men may be more susceptible to Type A > depression and women to Type B, > and there is recent evidence that depression is > associated with > right-hemisphere mechanisms in men and > left-hemisphere mechanisms in women. > I think the LH is particularly associated with > prosocial emotions (including > the emotions/motives underlying the learning, > teaching, and use of language) > and the RH with individualist emotions/motives. > > > > Cheers, Ross > > > > References: > > > > Buck, R. (1999). The biological affects: A > typology. Psychological > Review. 106(2), 301-336. > > > > Buck, R. (2002). The genetics and biology of > true love: Prosocial > biological affects and the left hemisphere. > Psychological Review. 109(4). > 739-744. > > > > > > Ross Buck, Ph. D. > > Professor of Communication Sciences > > and Psychology > > Communication Sciences U-1085 > > University of Connecticut > > Storrs, CT 06269-1085 > > 860-486-4494 > > fax 860-486-5422 > > buck at uconnvm.uconn.edu > > http://www.coms.uconn.edu/docs/people/faculty/rbuck/index.htm > > > > > > "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as > when they do it from > religious conviction." > > -- Blaise Pascal > > > > _____ > > From: paleopsych-bounces at paleopsych.org > [mailto:paleopsych-bounces at paleopsych.org] On Behalf > Of HowlBloom at aol.com > Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 12:21 AM > To: paleopsych at paleopsych.org > Subject: [Paleopsych] inner judges on the rampage > > > > If the theory put forth in my first book, The Lucifer > Principle: A > Scientific Expedition Into the Forces of History, is > at all correct, > evolution has riddled us with self-destruct > mechanisms, mechanisms that do > away with us when we are not a part of the solution, > we are part of the > problem. By shutting us down, our self-destruct > mechanisms shunt resources > to those who have a handle on the crisis at hand and > snatches the goods away > from those who can't get a grip on things. She > turns on those who > contribute to the neural net, to the complex adaptive > system, to the > collective learning machine-just as she hands out > bio-prizes to useful > citizens of the immune system, lymphocytes and > bio-punishments to citizens > whose specialization is momentarily irrelevant. > Evolution, biology, > physiology, or whatever you choose to call our stress > mechanism and her grim > reapers do this to maximize the intelligence of the > collective enterprise. > In the case of the immune system, some are made > wealthy and vigorous, and > some are made weak and imporvished so that the > overall system can defeat > invaders. > > > > The key determiner of whether you are of value or not > seems to be the extent > to which you feel you have control. > > > > Is the fact that, > > > > "The pressure of meeting a work deadline can produce > a sixfold increase in > the risk of suffering a heart attack over the course > of the following day. > And competition at work could double the ongoing > risk" > > > > an example of a self-destruct mechanism at work? Has > evolution done what my > second book, Global Brain: The Evolution of Mass Mind > From The Big Bang to > the 21st Century, claims? Has it seated inner judges > within us to determine > who wins and loses the competition and who is and is > not up to the > challenge-of-the-day? Howard > > > > Retrieved December 15, 2004, from the World Wide Web > > http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99996786 > > Stressful deadlines boost heart attack risk 00:01 14 > December 04 > NewScientist.com news service The pressure of meeting > a work deadline can > produce a sixfold increase in the risk of suffering a > heart attack over the > course of the following day. And competition at work > could double the > ongoing risk, according to a new study. Previous > research has shown that > intense anger, sexual activity and emotional stress > can all lead to heart > attacks. But this is the first time having an intense > work deadline has been > singled out as a trigger for heart attack over such a > short timescale. > "This is potentially important for patients and for > Swedish work law," says > lead author Jette Moller of the Karolinska Institutet > in Stockholm, Sweden. > "Changes in the labour market organisation have > created more stress and > people should be aware of the impact on health." She > cites workload, lower > job security and increased competition in the > workplace as factors. The > study questioned nearly 1400 heart attack survivors > from the Stockholm area, > aged 45 to 70, about the period leading up to their > first heart attack. They > were compared with a control group of about 1700 > people who had not had a > heart attack. The volunteers were asked questions > about their work over the > last year and over the days immediately before their > heart attack. The > questions included whether they had been criticised > for their performance or > lateness, been promoted or laid off, faced a > high-pressure deadline at work, > changed their workplace and whether their financial > situation had changed. > Money worries The results show that intense pressure > over a short period > increased the risk of a heart attack more than a > build up of stress over an > entire year, and that the heart attack can follow > very soon after this spell > of increased pressure. Amongst the heart attack > group, 8% had faced a > significant event at work less than 24 hours before > their attack. However, > long-term changes also play a part. Taking on extra > responsibility at work > over the last year - if viewed negatively by the > participant - increased the > chance of a heart attack by almost four times in > women and over six times in > men. And a deterioration in financial situation > tripled the risk of a heart > attack amongst women. Subscribe to New Scientist for > more news and features > Related Stories Downsizing raises risk of death in > workers 23 February 2004 > Science graduates live long and prosper 01 August > 2003 Unfair bosses make > blood pressure soar 24 June 2003 For more related > stories search the print > edition Archive Weblinks Social Epidemiology > Research, Karolinska > Institutet, Stockholm George Fieldman, > Buckinghamshire Chilterns University > College Journal of Epidemiology and Community Health > George Fieldman, an > expert in cognitive therapy and health psychology at > Buckinghamshire > Chilterns University College in the UK, says the > sixfold increase in risk > caused by meeting a deadline is massive, but not > surprising. He points out > that previous research has shown that a person's > chance of suffering a heart > attack is higher on a Monday morning. He adds these > studies can help to > pinpoint the stress risk factors for heart attacks. > "It is difficult to > unpick the details of what constitutes stress for > different people in > different situations," he says. The study shows that > stress at work can > pose a very real and immediate threat to health, > Fieldman says, and adds: "I > must remember to take it easy." Journal reference: > Journal of Epidemiology > and Community Health (DOI: 10.1136/jech.2003.019349) > Katharine Davis > > > > ---------- > Howard Bloom > Author of The Lucifer Principle: A Scientific > Expedition Into the Forces of > History and Global Brain: The Evolution of Mass Mind > From The Big Bang to > the 21st Century > Visiting Scholar-Graduate Psychology Department, New > York University; Core > Faculty Member, The Graduate Institute > www.howardbloom.net > www.bigbangtango.net > Founder: International Paleopsychology Project; > founding board member: Epic > of Evolution Society; founding board member, The > Darwin Project; founder: > The Big Bang Tango Media Lab; member: New York > Academy of Sciences, American > Association for the Advancement of Science, American > Psychological Society, > Academy of Political Science, Human Behavior and > Evolution Society, > International Society for Human Ethology; advisory > board member: > Youthactivism.org; executive editor -- New Paradigm > book series. > For information on The International Paleopsychology > Project, see: > www.paleopsych.org > for two chapters from > The Lucifer Principle: A Scientific Expedition Into > the Forces of History, > see www.howardbloom.net/lucifer > For information on Global Brain: The Evolution of > Mass Mind from the Big > Bang to the 21st Century, see www.howardbloom.net > > << File: ATT00029.html >> << File: ATT00030.txt >> > _______________________________________________ > paleopsych mailing list > paleopsych at paleopsych.org > http://lists.paleopsych.org/mailman/listinfo/paleopsych > From HowlBloom at aol.com Thu Dec 16 05:19:13 2004 From: HowlBloom at aol.com (HowlBloom at aol.com) Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 00:19:13 EST Subject: [Paleopsych] Fwd: Bloom on the web Message-ID: <7d.5ec66c5f.2ef274d1@aol.com> From: Laura Hartzell Director WIE Unbound Last July, Howard Bloom ventured forth, crossing the great river?the East River, that is?across the Brooklyn Bridge to Manhattan for an eagerly awaited appearance at the What Is Enlightenment? magazine?s international speakers forum, Voices from the Edge. Click here to listen for free: http://www.wie.org/unbound/media.asp?ecp=E-121304-C-BLOOM&id=23 His debut talk, entitled "Osama, Michael Jackson, and Group IQ," is in fact actually about Osama, Michael Jackson, and group IQ. But in a style appropriate only to someone referred to as a ?raconteur extraordinaire,? Howard?s brilliantly chaordic presentation touches on sex, violence, population biology, the reproductive habits of mice (and Medievals), how ancient bacterium got their smarts, and the fate of civilization as we know it. The talk, including the Q&A that followed, is available in its entirety on WIE Unbound. WIE Unbound is the online broadcasting arm of What Is Enlightenment? magazine, featuring streaming audios, videos, and downloadable MP3s of interviews and dialogues with today?s leading- edge thinkers, visionaries, and mystics. Sign up for a one-month free trial, and if you choose to continue, the membership is billed at $10 a month. Tune in to Howard's talk for free by clicking here. _http://www.wie.org/unbound/media.asp?ecp=E-121304-C-BLOOM&id=23_ (http://www.wie.org/unbound/media.asp?ecp=E-121304-C-BLOOM&id=23) ---------- Howard Bloom Author of The Lucifer Principle: A Scientific Expedition Into the Forces of History and Global Brain: The Evolution of Mass Mind From The Big Bang to the 21st Century Visiting Scholar-Graduate Psychology Department, New York University; Core Faculty Member, The Graduate Institute www.howardbloom.net www.bigbangtango.net Founder: International Paleopsychology Project; founding board member: Epic of Evolution Society; founding board member, The Darwin Project; founder: The Big Bang Tango Media Lab; member: New York Academy of Sciences, American Association for the Advancement of Science, American Psychological Society, Academy of Political Science, Human Behavior and Evolution Society, International Society for Human Ethology; advisory board member: Youthactivism.org; executive editor -- New Paradigm book series. For information on The International Paleopsychology Project, see: www.paleopsych.org for two chapters from The Lucifer Principle: A Scientific Expedition Into the Forces of History, see www.howardbloom.net/lucifer For information on Global Brain: The Evolution of Mass Mind from the Big Bang to the 21st Century, see www.howardbloom.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From shovland at mindspring.com Thu Dec 16 05:28:57 2004 From: shovland at mindspring.com (Steve Hovland) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 21:28:57 -0800 Subject: [Paleopsych] inner judges on the rampage Message-ID: <01C4E2ED.16CAC310.shovland@mindspring.com> The amino acids l-phenylalanine and l-tyrosine are precursors to catecholamines. At this time of year I am supplementing with both of those to overcome winter blahs. I'm doing very well. I take 500m of tyrosine at breakfast and 500mg of phenylalanine at lunch and finish the day with high energy. Tyrosine is also supposed to boost dopamine. Phenylalanine combined with too much coffee shatters my ability to concentrate. Tryptophan is a precursor to seratonin, but at this time of year that is not good for me. I tend to be high at midyear and take tryptophan then to smooth me out. Steve Hovland www.stevehovland.net -----Original Message----- From: Geraldine Reinhardt [SMTP:waluk at earthlink.net] Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 7:50 PM To: The new improved paleopsych list Subject: Re: [Paleopsych] inner judges on the rampage I certainly hope so because my research is coincident to that of Ross. Low catecholamines is worth investigation as in low serotonin yet my bottom line is how to increase both chemicals. Is this done physically or psychologically? Gerry Reinhart-Waller Independent Scholar http://www.home.earthlink.net/~waluk ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Hovland" To: "'The new improved paleopsych list'" Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 6:18 PM Subject: RE: [Paleopsych] inner judges on the rampage > Ross- do you think you will be able to find > some hard science to confirm your theories > about 2 forms of depression? > > Steve Hovland > www.stevehovland.net > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ross Buck [SMTP:ross.buck at uconn.edu] > Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 8:36 AM > To: 'The new improved paleopsych list'; > HowlBloom at aol.com > Subject: RE: [Paleopsych] inner judges on the rampage > > Howard: > > > > I agree with that control (competence) is a key > determinant of whether one > is of value or not, but it is only half the picture. > The other is being > loved. Effectance/competence motivation and > attachment-love are the two > great biomotivators of higher-level emotions/motives > in human beings (and > other creatures), and I think they are fully > dissociable. I have > hypothesized that a lack of control is associated > with Type A major > depression (associated with low catecholamines) and a > lack of love is > associated with Type B major depression (associated > with low serotonin). > These are ancient mechanisms: serotonin will turn on > threat displays in > lobsters, and SSRIs are effective for many (not all) > depressions. All else > equal, men may be more susceptible to Type A > depression and women to Type B, > and there is recent evidence that depression is > associated with > right-hemisphere mechanisms in men and > left-hemisphere mechanisms in women. > I think the LH is particularly associated with > prosocial emotions (including > the emotions/motives underlying the learning, > teaching, and use of language) > and the RH with individualist emotions/motives. > > > > Cheers, Ross > > > > References: > > > > Buck, R. (1999). The biological affects: A > typology. Psychological > Review. 106(2), 301-336. > > > > Buck, R. (2002). The genetics and biology of > true love: Prosocial > biological affects and the left hemisphere. > Psychological Review. 109(4). > 739-744. > > > > > > Ross Buck, Ph. D. > > Professor of Communication Sciences > > and Psychology > > Communication Sciences U-1085 > > University of Connecticut > > Storrs, CT 06269-1085 > > 860-486-4494 > > fax 860-486-5422 > > buck at uconnvm.uconn.edu > > http://www.coms.uconn.edu/docs/people/faculty/rbuck/index.htm > > > > > > "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as > when they do it from > religious conviction." > > -- Blaise Pascal > > > > _____ > > From: paleopsych-bounces at paleopsych.org > [mailto:paleopsych-bounces at paleopsych.org] On Behalf > Of HowlBloom at aol.com > Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 12:21 AM > To: paleopsych at paleopsych.org > Subject: [Paleopsych] inner judges on the rampage > > > > If the theory put forth in my first book, The Lucifer > Principle: A > Scientific Expedition Into the Forces of History, is > at all correct, > evolution has riddled us with self-destruct > mechanisms, mechanisms that do > away with us when we are not a part of the solution, > we are part of the > problem. By shutting us down, our self-destruct > mechanisms shunt resources > to those who have a handle on the crisis at hand and > snatches the goods away > from those who can't get a grip on things. She > turns on those who > contribute to the neural net, to the complex adaptive > system, to the > collective learning machine-just as she hands out > bio-prizes to useful > citizens of the immune system, lymphocytes and > bio-punishments to citizens > whose specialization is momentarily irrelevant. > Evolution, biology, > physiology, or whatever you choose to call our stress > mechanism and her grim > reapers do this to maximize the intelligence of the > collective enterprise. > In the case of the immune system, some are made > wealthy and vigorous, and > some are made weak and imporvished so that the > overall system can defeat > invaders. > > > > The key determiner of whether you are of value or not > seems to be the extent > to which you feel you have control. > > > > Is the fact that, > > > > "The pressure of meeting a work deadline can produce > a sixfold increase in > the risk of suffering a heart attack over the course > of the following day. > And competition at work could double the ongoing > risk" > > > > an example of a self-destruct mechanism at work? Has > evolution done what my > second book, Global Brain: The Evolution of Mass Mind > From The Big Bang to > the 21st Century, claims? Has it seated inner judges > within us to determine > who wins and loses the competition and who is and is > not up to the > challenge-of-the-day? Howard > > > > Retrieved December 15, 2004, from the World Wide Web > > http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99996786 > > Stressful deadlines boost heart attack risk 00:01 14 > December 04 > NewScientist.com news service The pressure of meeting > a work deadline can > produce a sixfold increase in the risk of suffering a > heart attack over the > course of the following day. And competition at work > could double the > ongoing risk, according to a new study. Previous > research has shown that > intense anger, sexual activity and emotional stress > can all lead to heart > attacks. But this is the first time having an intense > work deadline has been > singled out as a trigger for heart attack over such a > short timescale. > "This is potentially important for patients and for > Swedish work law," says > lead author Jette Moller of the Karolinska Institutet > in Stockholm, Sweden. > "Changes in the labour market organisation have > created more stress and > people should be aware of the impact on health." She > cites workload, lower > job security and increased competition in the > workplace as factors. The > study questioned nearly 1400 heart attack survivors > from the Stockholm area, > aged 45 to 70, about the period leading up to their > first heart attack. They > were compared with a control group of about 1700 > people who had not had a > heart attack. The volunteers were asked questions > about their work over the > last year and over the days immediately before their > heart attack. The > questions included whether they had been criticised > for their performance or > lateness, been promoted or laid off, faced a > high-pressure deadline at work, > changed their workplace and whether their financial > situation had changed. > Money worries The results show that intense pressure > over a short period > increased the risk of a heart attack more than a > build up of stress over an > entire year, and that the heart attack can follow > very soon after this spell > of increased pressure. Amongst the heart attack > group, 8% had faced a > significant event at work less than 24 hours before > their attack. However, > long-term changes also play a part. Taking on extra > responsibility at work > over the last year - if viewed negatively by the > participant - increased the > chance of a heart attack by almost four times in > women and over six times in > men. And a deterioration in financial situation > tripled the risk of a heart > attack amongst women. Subscribe to New Scientist for > more news and features > Related Stories Downsizing raises risk of death in > workers 23 February 2004 > Science graduates live long and prosper 01 August > 2003 Unfair bosses make > blood pressure soar 24 June 2003 For more related > stories search the print > edition Archive Weblinks Social Epidemiology > Research, Karolinska > Institutet, Stockholm George Fieldman, > Buckinghamshire Chilterns University > College Journal of Epidemiology and Community Health > George Fieldman, an > expert in cognitive therapy and health psychology at > Buckinghamshire > Chilterns University College in the UK, says the > sixfold increase in risk > caused by meeting a deadline is massive, but not > surprising. He points out > that previous research has shown that a person's > chance of suffering a heart > attack is higher on a Monday morning. He adds these > studies can help to > pinpoint the stress risk factors for heart attacks. > "It is difficult to > unpick the details of what constitutes stress for > different people in > different situations," he says. The study shows that > stress at work can > pose a very real and immediate threat to health, > Fieldman says, and adds: "I > must remember to take it easy." Journal reference: > Journal of Epidemiology > and Community Health (DOI: 10.1136/jech.2003.019349) > Katharine Davis > > > > ---------- > Howard Bloom > Author of The Lucifer Principle: A Scientific > Expedition Into the Forces of > History and Global Brain: The Evolution of Mass Mind > From The Big Bang to > the 21st Century > Visiting Scholar-Graduate Psychology Department, New > York University; Core > Faculty Member, The Graduate Institute > www.howardbloom.net > www.bigbangtango.net > Founder: International Paleopsychology Project; > founding board member: Epic > of Evolution Society; founding board member, The > Darwin Project; founder: > The Big Bang Tango Media Lab; member: New York > Academy of Sciences, American > Association for the Advancement of Science, American > Psychological Society, > Academy of Political Science, Human Behavior and > Evolution Society, > International Society for Human Ethology; advisory > board member: > Youthactivism.org; executive editor -- New Paradigm > book series. > For information on The International Paleopsychology > Project, see: > www.paleopsych.org > for two chapters from > The Lucifer Principle: A Scientific Expedition Into > the Forces of History, > see www.howardbloom.net/lucifer > For information on Global Brain: The Evolution of > Mass Mind from the Big > Bang to the 21st Century, see www.howardbloom.net > > << File: ATT00029.html >> << File: ATT00030.txt >> > _______________________________________________ > paleopsych mailing list > paleopsych at paleopsych.org > http://lists.paleopsych.org/mailman/listinfo/paleopsych > _______________________________________________ paleopsych mailing list paleopsych at paleopsych.org http://lists.paleopsych.org/mailman/listinfo/paleopsych From christian.rauh at uconn.edu Thu Dec 16 05:43:22 2004 From: christian.rauh at uconn.edu (Christian Rauh) Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 00:43:22 -0500 Subject: [Paleopsych] inner judges on the rampage In-Reply-To: <01C4E2ED.16CAC310.shovland@mindspring.com> References: <01C4E2ED.16CAC310.shovland@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <41C1207A.8010309@uconn.edu> Does phenylalanine really have an effect or is this just a joke? I mean, diet coke? Christian Steve Hovland wrote: > The amino acids l-phenylalanine and l-tyrosine > are precursors to catecholamines. > > At this time of year I am supplementing with both > of those to overcome winter blahs. I'm doing very well. > > I take 500m of tyrosine at breakfast and 500mg > of phenylalanine at lunch and finish the day > with high energy. > > Tyrosine is also supposed to boost dopamine. > > Phenylalanine combined with too much coffee > shatters my ability to concentrate. > > Tryptophan is a precursor to seratonin, but at this time > of year that is not good for me. > > I tend to be high at midyear and take tryptophan > then to smooth me out. > > Steve Hovland > www.stevehovland.net > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Geraldine Reinhardt [SMTP:waluk at earthlink.net] > Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 7:50 PM > To: The new improved paleopsych list > Subject: Re: [Paleopsych] inner judges on the rampage > > I certainly hope so because my research is coincident > to that of Ross. Low catecholamines is worth > investigation as in low serotonin yet my bottom line is > how to increase both chemicals. Is this done > physically or psychologically? > > > Gerry Reinhart-Waller > Independent Scholar > http://www.home.earthlink.net/~waluk > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve Hovland" > To: "'The new improved paleopsych list'" > > Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 6:18 PM > Subject: RE: [Paleopsych] inner judges on the rampage > > > >>Ross- do you think you will be able to find >>some hard science to confirm your theories >>about 2 forms of depression? >> >>Steve Hovland >>www.stevehovland.net >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Ross Buck [SMTP:ross.buck at uconn.edu] >>Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 8:36 AM >>To: 'The new improved paleopsych list'; >>HowlBloom at aol.com >>Subject: RE: [Paleopsych] inner judges on the rampage >> >>Howard: >> >> >> >>I agree with that control (competence) is a key >>determinant of whether one >>is of value or not, but it is only half the picture. >>The other is being >>loved. Effectance/competence motivation and >>attachment-love are the two >>great biomotivators of higher-level emotions/motives >>in human beings (and >>other creatures), and I think they are fully >>dissociable. I have >>hypothesized that a lack of control is associated >>with Type A major >>depression (associated with low catecholamines) and a >>lack of love is >>associated with Type B major depression (associated >>with low serotonin). >>These are ancient mechanisms: serotonin will turn on >>threat displays in >>lobsters, and SSRIs are effective for many (not all) >>depressions. All else >>equal, men may be more susceptible to Type A >>depression and women to Type B, >>and there is recent evidence that depression is >>associated with >>right-hemisphere mechanisms in men and >>left-hemisphere mechanisms in women. >>I think the LH is particularly associated with >>prosocial emotions (including >>the emotions/motives underlying the learning, >>teaching, and use of language) >>and the RH with individualist emotions/motives. >> >> >> >>Cheers, Ross >> >> >> >>References: >> >> >> >> Buck, R. (1999). The biological affects: A >>typology. Psychological >>Review. 106(2), 301-336. >> >> >> >> Buck, R. (2002). The genetics and biology of >>true love: Prosocial >>biological affects and the left hemisphere. >>Psychological Review. 109(4). >>739-744. >> >> >> >> >> >>Ross Buck, Ph. D. >> >>Professor of Communication Sciences >> >> and Psychology >> >>Communication Sciences U-1085 >> >>University of Connecticut >> >>Storrs, CT 06269-1085 >> >>860-486-4494 >> >>fax 860-486-5422 >> >>buck at uconnvm.uconn.edu >> >>http://www.coms.uconn.edu/docs/people/faculty/rbuck/index.htm >> >> >> >> >> >>"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as >>when they do it from >>religious conviction." >> >>-- Blaise Pascal >> >> >> >> _____ >> >>From: paleopsych-bounces at paleopsych.org >>[mailto:paleopsych-bounces at paleopsych.org] On Behalf >>Of HowlBloom at aol.com >>Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 12:21 AM >>To: paleopsych at paleopsych.org >>Subject: [Paleopsych] inner judges on the rampage >> >> >> >>If the theory put forth in my first book, The Lucifer >>Principle: A >>Scientific Expedition Into the Forces of History, is >>at all correct, >>evolution has riddled us with self-destruct >>mechanisms, mechanisms that do >>away with us when we are not a part of the solution, >>we are part of the >>problem. By shutting us down, our self-destruct >>mechanisms shunt resources >>to those who have a handle on the crisis at hand and >>snatches the goods away >>from those who can't get a grip on things. She >>turns on those who >>contribute to the neural net, to the complex adaptive >>system, to the >>collective learning machine-just as she hands out >>bio-prizes to useful >>citizens of the immune system, lymphocytes and >>bio-punishments to citizens >>whose specialization is momentarily irrelevant. >>Evolution, biology, >>physiology, or whatever you choose to call our stress >>mechanism and her grim >>reapers do this to maximize the intelligence of the >>collective enterprise. >>In the case of the immune system, some are made >>wealthy and vigorous, and >>some are made weak and imporvished so that the >>overall system can defeat >>invaders. >> >> >> >>The key determiner of whether you are of value or not >>seems to be the extent >>to which you feel you have control. >> >> >> >>Is the fact that, >> >> >> >>"The pressure of meeting a work deadline can produce >>a sixfold increase in >>the risk of suffering a heart attack over the course >>of the following day. >>And competition at work could double the ongoing >>risk" >> >> >> >>an example of a self-destruct mechanism at work? Has >>evolution done what my >>second book, Global Brain: The Evolution of Mass Mind >>From The Big Bang to >>the 21st Century, claims? Has it seated inner judges >>within us to determine >>who wins and loses the competition and who is and is >>not up to the >>challenge-of-the-day? Howard >> >> >> >>Retrieved December 15, 2004, from the World Wide Web >> >>http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99996786 >> >> Stressful deadlines boost heart attack risk 00:01 14 >>December 04 >>NewScientist.com news service The pressure of meeting >>a work deadline can >>produce a sixfold increase in the risk of suffering a >>heart attack over the >>course of the following day. And competition at work >>could double the >>ongoing risk, according to a new study. Previous >>research has shown that >>intense anger, sexual activity and emotional stress >>can all lead to heart >>attacks. But this is the first time having an intense >>work deadline has been >>singled out as a trigger for heart attack over such a >>short timescale. >>"This is potentially important for patients and for >>Swedish work law," says >>lead author Jette Moller of the Karolinska Institutet >>in Stockholm, Sweden. >>"Changes in the labour market organisation have >>created more stress and >>people should be aware of the impact on health." She >>cites workload, lower >>job security and increased competition in the >>workplace as factors. The >>study questioned nearly 1400 heart attack survivors >>from the Stockholm area, >>aged 45 to 70, about the period leading up to their >>first heart attack. They >>were compared with a control group of about 1700 >>people who had not had a >>heart attack. The volunteers were asked questions >>about their work over the >>last year and over the days immediately before their >>heart attack. The >>questions included whether they had been criticised >>for their performance or >>lateness, been promoted or laid off, faced a >>high-pressure deadline at work, >>changed their workplace and whether their financial >>situation had changed. >>Money worries The results show that intense pressure >>over a short period >>increased the risk of a heart attack more than a >>build up of stress over an >>entire year, and that the heart attack can follow >>very soon after this spell >>of increased pressure. Amongst the heart attack >>group, 8% had faced a >>significant event at work less than 24 hours before >>their attack. However, >>long-term changes also play a part. Taking on extra >>responsibility at work >>over the last year - if viewed negatively by the >>participant - increased the >>chance of a heart attack by almost four times in >>women and over six times in >>men. And a deterioration in financial situation >>tripled the risk of a heart >>attack amongst women. Subscribe to New Scientist for >>more news and features >>Related Stories Downsizing raises risk of death in >>workers 23 February 2004 >>Science graduates live long and prosper 01 August >>2003 Unfair bosses make >>blood pressure soar 24 June 2003 For more related >>stories search the print >>edition Archive Weblinks Social Epidemiology >>Research, Karolinska >>Institutet, Stockholm George Fieldman, >>Buckinghamshire Chilterns University >>College Journal of Epidemiology and Community Health >>George Fieldman, an >>expert in cognitive therapy and health psychology at >>Buckinghamshire >>Chilterns University College in the UK, says the >>sixfold increase in risk >>caused by meeting a deadline is massive, but not >>surprising. He points out >>that previous research has shown that a person's >>chance of suffering a heart >>attack is higher on a Monday morning. He adds these >>studies can help to >>pinpoint the stress risk factors for heart attacks. >>"It is difficult to >>unpick the details of what constitutes stress for >>different people in >>different situations," he says. The study shows that >>stress at work can >>pose a very real and immediate threat to health, >>Fieldman says, and adds: "I >>must remember to take it easy." Journal reference: >>Journal of Epidemiology >>and Community Health (DOI: 10.1136/jech.2003.019349) >>Katharine Davis >> >> >> >>---------- >>Howard Bloom >>Author of The Lucifer Principle: A Scientific >>Expedition Into the Forces of >>History and Global Brain: The Evolution of Mass Mind >>From The Big Bang to >>the 21st Century >>Visiting Scholar-Graduate Psychology Department, New >>York University; Core >>Faculty Member, The Graduate Institute >>www.howardbloom.net >>www.bigbangtango.net >>Founder: International Paleopsychology Project; >>founding board member: Epic >>of Evolution Society; founding board member, The >>Darwin Project; founder: >>The Big Bang Tango Media Lab; member: New York >>Academy of Sciences, American >>Association for the Advancement of Science, American >>Psychological Society, >>Academy of Political Science, Human Behavior and >>Evolution Society, >>International Society for Human Ethology; advisory >>board member: >>Youthactivism.org; executive editor -- New Paradigm >>book series. >>For information on The International Paleopsychology >>Project, see: >>www.paleopsych.org >>for two chapters from >>The Lucifer Principle: A Scientific Expedition Into >>the Forces of History, >>see www.howardbloom.net/lucifer >>For information on Global Brain: The Evolution of >>Mass Mind from the Big >>Bang to the 21st Century, see www.howardbloom.net >> >><< File: ATT00029.html >> << File: ATT00030.txt >> >>_______________________________________________ >>paleopsych mailing list >>paleopsych at paleopsych.org >>http://lists.paleopsych.org/mailman/listinfo/paleopsych >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > paleopsych mailing list > paleopsych at paleopsych.org > http://lists.paleopsych.org/mailman/listinfo/paleopsych > _______________________________________________ > paleopsych mailing list > paleopsych at paleopsych.org > http://lists.paleopsych.org/mailman/listinfo/paleopsych -- ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? A little patience, and we shall see the reign of witches pass over, their spells dissolve, and the people, recovering their true sight, restore their government to its true principles. It is true that in the meantime we are suffering deeply in spirit, and incurring the horrors of a war and long oppressions of enormous public debt...... If the game runs sometimes against us at home we must have patience till luck turns, and then we shall have an opportunity of winning back the principles we have lost, for this is a game where principles are at stake. - Thomas Jefferson, from a letter he sent in 1798 after the passage of the Sedition Act _____________________________________________________________________ ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? From metzger at disinfo.com Thu Dec 16 06:28:06 2004 From: metzger at disinfo.com (Richard Metzger) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 22:28:06 -0800 Subject: [Paleopsych] inner judges on the rampage In-Reply-To: <41C1207A.8010309@uconn.edu> References: <01C4E2ED.16CAC310.shovland@mindspring.com> <41C1207A.8010309@uconn.edu> Message-ID: I have a similar regimen with these same amino acids mentioned here and it works great for me too. One feels *quite* peppy during the day, especially l-phenylalanine taken with coffee. It's like rocket fuel and it works quite well at staving off depression, I wholeheartedly agree. It's all I need to do, in fact. Richard On Dec 15, 2004, at 9:43 PM, Christian Rauh wrote: > Does phenylalanine really have an effect or is this just a joke? I > mean, diet coke? > > Christian > > Steve Hovland wrote: >> The amino acids l-phenylalanine and l-tyrosine >> are precursors to catecholamines. At this time of year I am >> supplementing with both of those to overcome winter blahs. I'm doing >> very well. >> I take 500m of tyrosine at breakfast and 500mg >> of phenylalanine at lunch and finish the day >> with high energy. Tyrosine is also supposed to boost dopamine. >> Phenylalanine combined with too much coffee >> shatters my ability to concentrate. >> Tryptophan is a precursor to seratonin, but at this time of year that >> is not good for me. >> I tend to be high at midyear and take tryptophan >> then to smooth me out. >> Steve Hovland >> www.stevehovland.net >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Geraldine Reinhardt [SMTP:waluk at earthlink.net] >> Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 7:50 PM >> To: The new improved paleopsych list >> Subject: Re: [Paleopsych] inner judges on the rampage >> I certainly hope so because my research is coincident to that of >> Ross. Low catecholamines is worth investigation as in low serotonin >> yet my bottom line is how to increase both chemicals. Is this done >> physically or psychologically? >> Gerry Reinhart-Waller >> Independent Scholar >> http://www.home.earthlink.net/~waluk >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Hovland" >> >> To: "'The new improved paleopsych list'" >> Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 6:18 PM >> Subject: RE: [Paleopsych] inner judges on the rampage >>> Ross- do you think you will be able to find >>> some hard science to confirm your theories >>> about 2 forms of depression? >>> >>> Steve Hovland >>> www.stevehovland.net >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Ross Buck [SMTP:ross.buck at uconn.edu] >>> Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 8:36 AM >>> To: 'The new improved paleopsych list'; HowlBloom at aol.com >>> Subject: RE: [Paleopsych] inner judges on the rampage >>> >>> Howard: >>> >>> >>> >>> I agree with that control (competence) is a key determinant of >>> whether one >>> is of value or not, but it is only half the picture. The other is >>> being >>> loved. Effectance/competence motivation and attachment-love are the >>> two >>> great biomotivators of higher-level emotions/motives in human beings >>> (and >>> other creatures), and I think they are fully dissociable. I have >>> hypothesized that a lack of control is associated with Type A major >>> depression (associated with low catecholamines) and a lack of love is >>> associated with Type B major depression (associated with low >>> serotonin). >>> These are ancient mechanisms: serotonin will turn on threat displays >>> in >>> lobsters, and SSRIs are effective for many (not all) depressions. >>> All else >>> equal, men may be more susceptible to Type A depression and women to >>> Type B, >>> and there is recent evidence that depression is associated with >>> right-hemisphere mechanisms in men and left-hemisphere mechanisms in >>> women. >>> I think the LH is particularly associated with prosocial emotions >>> (including >>> the emotions/motives underlying the learning, teaching, and use of >>> language) >>> and the RH with individualist emotions/motives. >>> >>> >>> >>> Cheers, Ross >>> >>> >>> >>> References: >>> >>> >>> >>> Buck, R. (1999). The biological affects: A typology. >>> Psychological >>> Review. 106(2), 301-336. >>> >>> >>> >>> Buck, R. (2002). The genetics and biology of true love: >>> Prosocial >>> biological affects and the left hemisphere. Psychological Review. >>> 109(4). >>> 739-744. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Ross Buck, Ph. D. >>> >>> Professor of Communication Sciences >>> >>> and Psychology >>> >>> Communication Sciences U-1085 >>> >>> University of Connecticut >>> >>> Storrs, CT 06269-1085 >>> >>> 860-486-4494 >>> >>> fax 860-486-5422 >>> >>> buck at uconnvm.uconn.edu >>> >>> http://www.coms.uconn.edu/docs/people/faculty/rbuck/index.htm >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it >>> from >>> religious conviction." >>> >>> -- Blaise Pascal >>> >>> >>> >>> _____ >>> >>> From: paleopsych-bounces at paleopsych.org >>> [mailto:paleopsych-bounces at paleopsych.org] On Behalf Of >>> HowlBloom at aol.com >>> Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 12:21 AM >>> To: paleopsych at paleopsych.org >>> Subject: [Paleopsych] inner judges on the rampage >>> >>> >>> >>> If the theory put forth in my first book, The Lucifer Principle: A >>> Scientific Expedition Into the Forces of History, is at all correct, >>> evolution has riddled us with self-destruct mechanisms, mechanisms >>> that do >>> away with us when we are not a part of the solution, we are part of >>> the >>> problem. By shutting us down, our self-destruct mechanisms shunt >>> resources >>> to those who have a handle on the crisis at hand and snatches the >>> goods away >>> from those who can't get a grip on things. She turns on those who >>> contribute to the neural net, to the complex adaptive system, to the >>> collective learning machine-just as she hands out bio-prizes to >>> useful >>> citizens of the immune system, lymphocytes and bio-punishments to >>> citizens >>> whose specialization is momentarily irrelevant. Evolution, biology, >>> physiology, or whatever you choose to call our stress mechanism and >>> her grim >>> reapers do this to maximize the intelligence of the collective >>> enterprise. >>> In the case of the immune system, some are made wealthy and >>> vigorous, and >>> some are made weak and imporvished so that the overall system can >>> defeat >>> invaders. >>> >>> >>> >>> The key determiner of whether you are of value or not seems to be >>> the extent >>> to which you feel you have control. >>> >>> >>> >>> Is the fact that, >>> >>> >>> >>> "The pressure of meeting a work deadline can produce a sixfold >>> increase in >>> the risk of suffering a heart attack over the course of the >>> following day. >>> And competition at work could double the ongoing risk" >>> >>> >>> >>> an example of a self-destruct mechanism at work? Has evolution done >>> what my >>> second book, Global Brain: The Evolution of Mass Mind From The Big >>> Bang to >>> the 21st Century, claims? Has it seated inner judges within us to >>> determine >>> who wins and loses the competition and who is and is not up to the >>> challenge-of-the-day? Howard >>> >>> >>> >>> Retrieved December 15, 2004, from the World Wide Web >>> >>> http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99996786 >>> >>> Stressful deadlines boost heart attack risk 00:01 14 December 04 >>> NewScientist.com news service The pressure of meeting a work >>> deadline can >>> produce a sixfold increase in the risk of suffering a heart attack >>> over the >>> course of the following day. And competition at work could double the >>> ongoing risk, according to a new study. Previous research has shown >>> that >>> intense anger, sexual activity and emotional stress can all lead to >>> heart >>> attacks. But this is the first time having an intense work deadline >>> has been >>> singled out as a trigger for heart attack over such a short >>> timescale. >>> "This is potentially important for patients and for Swedish work >>> law," says >>> lead author Jette Moller of the Karolinska Institutet in Stockholm, >>> Sweden. >>> "Changes in the labour market organisation have created more stress >>> and >>> people should be aware of the impact on health." She cites workload, >>> lower >>> job security and increased competition in the workplace as factors. >>> The >>> study questioned nearly 1400 heart attack survivors from the >>> Stockholm area, >>> aged 45 to 70, about the period leading up to their first heart >>> attack. They >>> were compared with a control group of about 1700 people who had not >>> had a >>> heart attack. The volunteers were asked questions about their work >>> over the >>> last year and over the days immediately before their heart attack. >>> The >>> questions included whether they had been criticised for their >>> performance or >>> lateness, been promoted or laid off, faced a high-pressure deadline >>> at work, >>> changed their workplace and whether their financial situation had >>> changed. >>> Money worries The results show that intense pressure over a short >>> period >>> increased the risk of a heart attack more than a build up of stress >>> over an >>> entire year, and that the heart attack can follow very soon after >>> this spell >>> of increased pressure. Amongst the heart attack group, 8% had faced a >>> significant event at work less than 24 hours before their attack. >>> However, >>> long-term changes also play a part. Taking on extra responsibility >>> at work >>> over the last year - if viewed negatively by the participant - >>> increased the >>> chance of a heart attack by almost four times in women and over six >>> times in >>> men. And a deterioration in financial situation tripled the risk of >>> a heart >>> attack amongst women. Subscribe to New Scientist for more news and >>> features >>> Related Stories Downsizing raises risk of death in workers 23 >>> February 2004 >>> Science graduates live long and prosper 01 August 2003 Unfair >>> bosses make >>> blood pressure soar 24 June 2003 For more related stories search >>> the print >>> edition Archive Weblinks Social Epidemiology Research, Karolinska >>> Institutet, Stockholm George Fieldman, Buckinghamshire Chilterns >>> University >>> College Journal of Epidemiology and Community Health George >>> Fieldman, an >>> expert in cognitive therapy and health psychology at Buckinghamshire >>> Chilterns University College in the UK, says the sixfold increase in >>> risk >>> caused by meeting a deadline is massive, but not surprising. He >>> points out >>> that previous research has shown that a person's chance of suffering >>> a heart >>> attack is higher on a Monday morning. He adds these studies can help >>> to >>> pinpoint the stress risk factors for heart attacks. "It is difficult >>> to >>> unpick the details of what constitutes stress for different people in >>> different situations," he says. The study shows that stress at work >>> can >>> pose a very real and immediate threat to health, Fieldman says, and >>> adds: "I >>> must remember to take it easy." Journal reference: Journal of >>> Epidemiology >>> and Community Health (DOI: 10.1136/jech.2003.019349) Katharine Davis >>> >>> >>> >>> ---------- >>> Howard Bloom >>> Author of The Lucifer Principle: A Scientific Expedition Into the >>> Forces of >>> History and Global Brain: The Evolution of Mass Mind From The Big >>> Bang to >>> the 21st Century >>> Visiting Scholar-Graduate Psychology Department, New York >>> University; Core >>> Faculty Member, The Graduate Institute >>> www.howardbloom.net >>> www.bigbangtango.net >>> Founder: International Paleopsychology Project; founding board >>> member: Epic >>> of Evolution Society; founding board member, The Darwin Project; >>> founder: >>> The Big Bang Tango Media Lab; member: New York Academy of Sciences, >>> American >>> Association for the Advancement of Science, American Psychological >>> Society, >>> Academy of Political Science, Human Behavior and Evolution Society, >>> International Society for Human Ethology; advisory board member: >>> Youthactivism.org; executive editor -- New Paradigm book series. >>> For information on The International Paleopsychology Project, see: >>> www.paleopsych.org >>> for two chapters from >>> The Lucifer Principle: A Scientific Expedition Into the Forces of >>> History, >>> see www.howardbloom.net/lucifer >>> For information on Global Brain: The Evolution of Mass Mind from the >>> Big >>> Bang to the 21st Century, see www.howardbloom.net >>> >>> << File: ATT00029.html >> << File: ATT00030.txt >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> paleopsych mailing list >>> paleopsych at paleopsych.org >>> http://lists.paleopsych.org/mailman/listinfo/paleopsych >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> paleopsych mailing list >> paleopsych at paleopsych.org >> http://lists.paleopsych.org/mailman/listinfo/paleopsych >> _______________________________________________ >> paleopsych mailing list >> paleopsych at paleopsych.org >> http://lists.paleopsych.org/mailman/listinfo/paleopsych > > -- > > ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? > A little patience, and we shall see the reign of witches pass over, > their spells dissolve, and the people, recovering their true sight, > restore their government to its true principles. It is true that in > the meantime we are suffering deeply in spirit, and incurring the > horrors of a war and long oppressions of enormous public debt...... > If the game runs sometimes against us at home we must have patience > till luck turns, and then we shall have an opportunity of winning > back the principles we have lost, for this is a game where > principles are at stake. > > - Thomas Jefferson, from a letter he sent in 1798 after > the passage of the Sedition Act > > _____________________________________________________________________ > ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? > _______________________________________________ > paleopsych mailing list > paleopsych at paleopsych.org > http://lists.paleopsych.org/mailman/listinfo/paleopsych > Richard Metzger The Disinformation Company Ltd. 207 West 25th St. 4th floor New York, NY 10001 212 691 1605 http://www.disinfo.com From ljohnson at solution-consulting.com Thu Dec 16 15:09:20 2004 From: ljohnson at solution-consulting.com (Lynn D. Johnson, Ph.D.) Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 08:09:20 -0700 Subject: [Paleopsych] inner judges on the rampage In-Reply-To: <41C1207A.8010309@uconn.edu> References: <01C4E2ED.16CAC310.shovland@mindspring.com> <41C1207A.8010309@uconn.edu> Message-ID: <41C1A520.70504@solution-consulting.com> Howard, Your comment reminded me of the studies suggesting that the hippocampus atrophies secondary to long depression. Thus the depressed person cannot recall good experiences and is unable to make decisions. Psychotherapy or anti-depressants will prevent that atrophy. Also, there is substantial evidence that fish oil, likely the EPA in fish oil, is a preventative of depression. Population studies (Iceland, Japan) show very low levels of depression among those who eat fish. The EPA seems to prevent inflammation, so clearly the body is attacking itself during depression. DHEA is converted by the body from pregnenalone, but so is cortisol. Parasympathetic arousal produces DHEA, while sympathetic arousal produces cortisol. Cortisol is elevated in depressed persons and may be the agent causing the hippocampus artophy. Long-term cortisol elevation is damaging to the body. 90 mgs q day of DHEA was shown to reverse depression. SAMe seems to treat depression well and there are some studies about it also helps slow arthritis, so the inflammation / self-attack notion seems to hold up there. If I were prone to depression, I would take it. Since I have osteoarthritis and a family history of heart attacks, I take fish oil and flax seed / walnuts, and they seem to help. I am planning on adding SAMe to keep my knees working until I am 70. Ross' idea about two depressions is intriguing, and I would like to learn more about that. Lynn From ross.buck at uconn.edu Thu Dec 16 17:30:07 2004 From: ross.buck at uconn.edu (Ross Buck) Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 12:30:07 -0500 Subject: [Paleopsych] inner judges: all you need is love In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200412161730.iBGHU8016572@tick.javien.com> As these postings indicate, there is much hard science behind the biology of depression, although control issues seem important as well: coming up with one's own regimen and believing in it may in itself have as much effect as the amino acids themselves. On the other hand, taking major antidepressants may alter the biology (temporarily) but may by implication and in fact represent a ceding of control which may haunt one later if the drug by its very nature alters the natural system and thereby becomes less effective ("Prozac poop-out"). Regarding the existence of the two types of depression, that is not my idea but is a generally recognized medical distinction between catecholamine-deficit Type A versus serotonin-deficit Type B depression. My suggestion is that 1. these represent deficits in individualist effectance and prosocial attachment motive/emotions, respectively, 2. for many reasons males tend to be affected more by effectance deficits and females by attachment deficits, and 3. individualist effectance is particularly associated with right hemisphere and prosocial attachment with left hemisphere mechanisms. These are testable hypotheses, and in fact are consistent with much data as is reviewed in my Psych Review papers referenced below. I welcome comments thoughts, and criticisms about this. Howard's original point, that evolution has riddled us with self-destruct mechanisms, is quite compatible with the notion that being loved is a key determinant of whether one is of value. There is plentiful evidence that social support has strong stress-buffering effects, and that isolation and particularly bereavement can be devastating physiologically. I suggest that nonverbal-emotional communication has bioregulatory functions that mediate these effects. I also think that, all else equal, being loved is a more powerful determinant of one's value than being competent in an individualist-effectance sense. Might as well face it, we're addicted to love... Cheers, Ross -----Original Message----- From: paleopsych-bounces at paleopsych.org [mailto:paleopsych-bounces at paleopsych.org] On Behalf Of Richard Metzger Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 1:28 AM To: The new improved paleopsych list Subject: Re: [Paleopsych] inner judges on the rampage I have a similar regimen with these same amino acids mentioned here and it works great for me too. One feels *quite* peppy during the day, especially l-phenylalanine taken with coffee. It's like rocket fuel and it works quite well at staving off depression, I wholeheartedly agree. It's all I need to do, in fact. Richard On Dec 15, 2004, at 9:43 PM, Christian Rauh wrote: > Does phenylalanine really have an effect or is this just a joke? I > mean, diet coke? > > Christian > > Steve Hovland wrote: >> The amino acids l-phenylalanine and l-tyrosine >> are precursors to catecholamines. At this time of year I am >> supplementing with both of those to overcome winter blahs. I'm doing >> very well. >> I take 500m of tyrosine at breakfast and 500mg >> of phenylalanine at lunch and finish the day >> with high energy. Tyrosine is also supposed to boost dopamine. >> Phenylalanine combined with too much coffee >> shatters my ability to concentrate. >> Tryptophan is a precursor to seratonin, but at this time of year that >> is not good for me. >> I tend to be high at midyear and take tryptophan >> then to smooth me out. >> Steve Hovland >> www.stevehovland.net >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Geraldine Reinhardt [SMTP:waluk at earthlink.net] >> Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 7:50 PM >> To: The new improved paleopsych list >> Subject: Re: [Paleopsych] inner judges on the rampage >> I certainly hope so because my research is coincident to that of >> Ross. Low catecholamines is worth investigation as in low serotonin >> yet my bottom line is how to increase both chemicals. Is this done >> physically or psychologically? >> Gerry Reinhart-Waller >> Independent Scholar >> http://www.home.earthlink.net/~waluk >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Hovland" >> >> To: "'The new improved paleopsych list'" >> Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 6:18 PM >> Subject: RE: [Paleopsych] inner judges on the rampage >>> Ross- do you think you will be able to find >>> some hard science to confirm your theories >>> about 2 forms of depression? >>> >>> Steve Hovland >>> www.stevehovland.net >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Ross Buck [SMTP:ross.buck at uconn.edu] >>> Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 8:36 AM >>> To: 'The new improved paleopsych list'; HowlBloom at aol.com >>> Subject: RE: [Paleopsych] inner judges on the rampage >>> >>> Howard: >>> >>> >>> >>> I agree with that control (competence) is a key determinant of >>> whether one >>> is of value or not, but it is only half the picture. The other is >>> being >>> loved. Effectance/competence motivation and attachment-love are the >>> two >>> great biomotivators of higher-level emotions/motives in human beings >>> (and >>> other creatures), and I think they are fully dissociable. I have >>> hypothesized that a lack of control is associated with Type A major >>> depression (associated with low catecholamines) and a lack of love is >>> associated with Type B major depression (associated with low >>> serotonin). >>> These are ancient mechanisms: serotonin will turn on threat displays >>> in >>> lobsters, and SSRIs are effective for many (not all) depressions. >>> All else >>> equal, men may be more susceptible to Type A depression and women to >>> Type B, >>> and there is recent evidence that depression is associated with >>> right-hemisphere mechanisms in men and left-hemisphere mechanisms in >>> women. >>> I think the LH is particularly associated with prosocial emotions >>> (including >>> the emotions/motives underlying the learning, teaching, and use of >>> language) >>> and the RH with individualist emotions/motives. >>> >>> >>> >>> Cheers, Ross >>> >>> >>> >>> References: >>> >>> >>> >>> Buck, R. (1999). The biological affects: A typology. >>> Psychological >>> Review. 106(2), 301-336. >>> >>> >>> >>> Buck, R. (2002). The genetics and biology of true love: >>> Prosocial >>> biological affects and the left hemisphere. Psychological Review. >>> 109(4). >>> 739-744. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Ross Buck, Ph. D. >>> >>> Professor of Communication Sciences >>> >>> and Psychology >>> >>> Communication Sciences U-1085 >>> >>> University of Connecticut >>> >>> Storrs, CT 06269-1085 >>> >>> 860-486-4494 >>> >>> fax 860-486-5422 >>> >>> buck at uconnvm.uconn.edu >>> >>> http://www.coms.uconn.edu/docs/people/faculty/rbuck/index.htm >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it >>> from >>> religious conviction." >>> >>> -- Blaise Pascal >>> >>> >>> >>> _____ >>> >>> From: paleopsych-bounces at paleopsych.org >>> [mailto:paleopsych-bounces at paleopsych.org] On Behalf Of >>> HowlBloom at aol.com >>> Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 12:21 AM >>> To: paleopsych at paleopsych.org >>> Subject: [Paleopsych] inner judges on the rampage >>> >>> >>> >>> If the theory put forth in my first book, The Lucifer Principle: A >>> Scientific Expedition Into the Forces of History, is at all correct, >>> evolution has riddled us with self-destruct mechanisms, mechanisms >>> that do >>> away with us when we are not a part of the solution, we are part of >>> the >>> problem. By shutting us down, our self-destruct mechanisms shunt >>> resources >>> to those who have a handle on the crisis at hand and snatches the >>> goods away >>> from those who can't get a grip on things. She turns on those who >>> contribute to the neural net, to the complex adaptive system, to the >>> collective learning machine-just as she hands out bio-prizes to >>> useful >>> citizens of the immune system, lymphocytes and bio-punishments to >>> citizens >>> whose specialization is momentarily irrelevant. Evolution, biology, >>> physiology, or whatever you choose to call our stress mechanism and >>> her grim >>> reapers do this to maximize the intelligence of the collective >>> enterprise. >>> In the case of the immune system, some are made wealthy and >>> vigorous, and >>> some are made weak and imporvished so that the overall system can >>> defeat >>> invaders. >>> >>> >>> >>> The key determiner of whether you are of value or not seems to be >>> the extent >>> to which you feel you have control. >>> >>> >>> >>> Is the fact that, >>> >>> >>> >>> "The pressure of meeting a work deadline can produce a sixfold >>> increase in >>> the risk of suffering a heart attack over the course of the >>> following day. >>> And competition at work could double the ongoing risk" >>> >>> >>> >>> an example of a self-destruct mechanism at work? Has evolution done >>> what my >>> second book, Global Brain: The Evolution of Mass Mind From The Big >>> Bang to >>> the 21st Century, claims? Has it seated inner judges within us to >>> determine >>> who wins and loses the competition and who is and is not up to the >>> challenge-of-the-day? Howard >>> >>> >>> >>> Retrieved December 15, 2004, from the World Wide Web >>> >>> http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99996786 >>> >>> Stressful deadlines boost heart attack risk 00:01 14 December 04 >>> NewScientist.com news service The pressure of meeting a work >>> deadline can >>> produce a sixfold increase in the risk of suffering a heart attack >>> over the >>> course of the following day. And competition at work could double the >>> ongoing risk, according to a new study. Previous research has shown >>> that >>> intense anger, sexual activity and emotional stress can all lead to >>> heart >>> attacks. But this is the first time having an intense work deadline >>> has been >>> singled out as a trigger for heart attack over such a short >>> timescale. >>> "This is potentially important for patients and for Swedish work >>> law," says >>> lead author Jette Moller of the Karolinska Institutet in Stockholm, >>> Sweden. >>> "Changes in the labour market organisation have created more stress >>> and >>> people should be aware of the impact on health." She cites workload, >>> lower >>> job security and increased competition in the workplace as factors. >>> The >>> study questioned nearly 1400 heart attack survivors from the >>> Stockholm area, >>> aged 45 to 70, about the period leading up to their first heart >>> attack. They >>> were compared with a control group of about 1700 people who had not >>> had a >>> heart attack. The volunteers were asked questions about their work >>> over the >>> last year and over the days immediately before their heart attack. >>> The >>> questions included whether they had been criticised for their >>> performance or >>> lateness, been promoted or laid off, faced a high-pressure deadline >>> at work, >>> changed their workplace and whether their financial situation had >>> changed. >>> Money worries The results show that intense pressure over a short >>> period >>> increased the risk of a heart attack more than a build up of stress >>> over an >>> entire year, and that the heart attack can follow very soon after >>> this spell >>> of increased pressure. Amongst the heart attack group, 8% had faced a >>> significant event at work less than 24 hours before their attack. >>> However, >>> long-term changes also play a part. Taking on extra responsibility >>> at work >>> over the last year - if viewed negatively by the participant - >>> increased the >>> chance of a heart attack by almost four times in women and over six >>> times in >>> men. And a deterioration in financial situation tripled the risk of >>> a heart >>> attack amongst women. Subscribe to New Scientist for more news and >>> features >>> Related Stories Downsizing raises risk of death in workers 23 >>> February 2004 >>> Science graduates live long and prosper 01 August 2003 Unfair >>> bosses make >>> blood pressure soar 24 June 2003 For more related stories search >>> the print >>> edition Archive Weblinks Social Epidemiology Research, Karolinska >>> Institutet, Stockholm George Fieldman, Buckinghamshire Chilterns >>> University >>> College Journal of Epidemiology and Community Health George >>> Fieldman, an >>> expert in cognitive therapy and health psychology at Buckinghamshire >>> Chilterns University College in the UK, says the sixfold increase in >>> risk >>> caused by meeting a deadline is massive, but not surprising. He >>> points out >>> that previous research has shown that a person's chance of suffering >>> a heart >>> attack is higher on a Monday morning. He adds these studies can help >>> to >>> pinpoint the stress risk factors for heart attacks. "It is difficult >>> to >>> unpick the details of what constitutes stress for different people in >>> different situations," he says. The study shows that stress at work >>> can >>> pose a very real and immediate threat to health, Fieldman says, and >>> adds: "I >>> must remember to take it easy." Journal reference: Journal of >>> Epidemiology >>> and Community Health (DOI: 10.1136/jech.2003.019349) Katharine Davis >>> >>> >>> >>> ---------- >>> Howard Bloom >>> Author of The Lucifer Principle: A Scientific Expedition Into the >>> Forces of >>> History and Global Brain: The Evolution of Mass Mind From The Big >>> Bang to >>> the 21st Century >>> Visiting Scholar-Graduate Psychology Department, New York >>> University; Core >>> Faculty Member, The Graduate Institute >>> www.howardbloom.net >>> www.bigbangtango.net >>> Founder: International Paleopsychology Project; founding board >>> member: Epic >>> of Evolution Society; founding board member, The Darwin Project; >>> founder: >>> The Big Bang Tango Media Lab; member: New York Academy of Sciences, >>> American >>> Association for the Advancement of Science, American Psychological >>> Society, >>> Academy of Political Science, Human Behavior and Evolution Society, >>> International Society for Human Ethology; advisory board member: >>> Youthactivism.org; executive editor -- New Paradigm book series. >>> For information on The International Paleopsychology Project, see: >>> www.paleopsych.org >>> for two chapters from >>> The Lucifer Principle: A Scientific Expedition Into the Forces of >>> History, >>> see www.howardbloom.net/lucifer >>> For information on Global Brain: The Evolution of Mass Mind from the >>> Big >>> Bang to the 21st Century, see www.howardbloom.net >>> >>> << File: ATT00029.html >> << File: ATT00030.txt >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> paleopsych mailing list >>> paleopsych at paleopsych.org >>> http://lists.paleopsych.org/mailman/listinfo/paleopsych >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> paleopsych mailing list >> paleopsych at paleopsych.org >> http://lists.paleopsych.org/mailman/listinfo/paleopsych >> _______________________________________________ >> paleopsych mailing list >> paleopsych at paleopsych.org >> http://lists.paleopsych.org/mailman/listinfo/paleopsych > > -- > > ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? > A little patience, and we shall see the reign of witches pass over, > their spells dissolve, and the people, recovering their true sight, > restore their government to its true principles. It is true that in > the meantime we are suffering deeply in spirit, and incurring the > horrors of a war and long oppressions of enormous public debt...... > If the game runs sometimes against us at home we must have patience > till luck turns, and then we shall have an opportunity of winning > back the principles we have lost, for this is a game where > principles are at stake. > > - Thomas Jefferson, from a letter he sent in 1798 after > the passage of the Sedition Act > > _____________________________________________________________________ > ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? > _______________________________________________ > paleopsych mailing list > paleopsych at paleopsych.org > http://lists.paleopsych.org/mailman/listinfo/paleopsych > Richard Metzger The Disinformation Company Ltd. 207 West 25th St. 4th floor New York, NY 10001 212 691 1605 http://www.disinfo.com _______________________________________________ paleopsych mailing list paleopsych at paleopsych.org http://lists.paleopsych.org/mailman/listinfo/paleopsych From guavaberry at earthlink.net Thu Dec 16 19:22:33 2004 From: guavaberry at earthlink.net (K.E.) Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 14:22:33 -0500 Subject: [Paleopsych] inner judges: all you need is love Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20041216142034.03c5dec0@mail.earthlink.net> Happy Holidays y'all Love is Everywhere :-) http://www.edu-cyberpg.com/Technology/images/Love30.wav and http://www.edu-cyberpg.com/Technology/images/Love36.wav karen <>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>~~~~~<> The Educational CyberPlayGround http://www.edu-cyberpg.com/ National Children's Folksong Repository http://www.edu-cyberpg.com/Culdesac/Repository/NCFR.html Hot List of Schools Online and Net Happenings, K12 Newsletters, Network Newsletters http://www.edu-cyberpg.com/Community/index.html 7 Hot Site Awards New York Times, USA Today , MSNBC, Earthlink, USA Today Best Bets For Educators, Macworld Top Fifty <>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>~~~~~<> From anonymous_animus at yahoo.com Thu Dec 16 20:34:57 2004 From: anonymous_animus at yahoo.com (Michael Christopher) Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 12:34:57 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Paleopsych] control In-Reply-To: <200412161900.iBGJ0O000437@tick.javien.com> Message-ID: <20041216203457.47105.qmail@web13421.mail.yahoo.com> >>Feeling in control is important, but taking control of yourself in a situation is just as important as being in control of the situation.<< --Good point. I think it would be useful to look at social stratification not in terms of financial worth, but in terms of how much control a person is able to feel he has in his everyday life. Those who feel out of control, regardless of their economic situation, are going to have a very different worldview from those who feel they have control. One question: can everyone feel in control, or is it a zero-sum game? Michael __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo From checker at panix.com Fri Dec 17 01:33:02 2004 From: checker at panix.com (Premise Checker) Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 20:33:02 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Paleopsych] Frank's Continued Abandonment of Reality Message-ID: 1. Beethoven's 234th Birthday 2. My Readings So Far 3. Thanks to All 4. My Next Readings 5. Planned Return 6. Google Is Adding Major Libraries to Its Database As promised, I have added several new items to my webpage, http://www.panix.com/~checker (don't forget the tilde). I'm ashamed of one of them, a too enthusiastic review of a book that I really thought very little of. I'm pleased by my prescience in noting the group selection implications in my piece, "Welfare Bums among the Lions." But the series, County Sovereignty, shows that my success as a prophet is not good. 1. BEETHOVEN'S 234th BIRTHDAY: Happy birthday to my greatest hero. Every year, I celebrate by listening to ten opus numbers, with a catch-up of the Werke ohne Opuszahl. This year, it's Opp. 91-100: 91. Wellington's Victory. I also have a CD of an electronic reconstruction of the original piece for Johann Nepomuk M?tzel's panharmonica, a mechanical contraption that played a trumpet, flute, clarinet, oboe organ pipes, timpani, triangle, cymbals, and snare and bass drums, but of the symphony at the end only. Such instruments later came to be used with punched cards, and indeed computer programming is derived from musical programming! M?tzel (1776-1838) had a fantastic career and built three instruments, the last of which was destroyed by Allied bombing during what Time magazine called "World War II," a fabulous propaganda term it invented. Photographs of a panharmonicon exist, as does Beethoven's scoring, making a computerized reconstruction possible. The disc is called "The Ultimate Music Box: A computerized re-creation of pieces for lost mechanical instruments by Beethoven, Haydn, CPE Bach, Handel, and Cherubini" (MHS 512264K (1988)). 92. Symphony 7 93. Symphony 8 94. Song: An die Hoffnung 95. Quartet 11 96. Violin Sonata 10 97. Archduke Trio 98. Song cycle: An die ferned Geliebte (the first song cycle ever) 99. Song: Der Mann von Wort 100. Song: Merkenstein Except for Harnoncourt with the symphonies, I'm listening to the DG "Complete" Beethoven Edition on 84 CDs, of which I have a majority. 2. MY READINGS SO FAR Recall that I abandoned reality for fiction on the grounds that I think I pretty much know, at least in outline form, what is really known about human nature from the standpoint of the biological and social sciences, but that writers of fiction have a way of getting at the complexities of human nature that elude scientists. I am particularly keen on increasing my understanding of non-Western peoples and how permanent (grounded in gene-culture co-evolution) their differences are but also the extent to which the world is converging to thinking like Westerners, of which teen-age mall rats might be taken as representative, though the teen-age mall rats may be become more alike than adults. a. Jack Keroauc, On the Road (1957). This is part of the rebellion against the conformity of the 1950s. The scene describing Mexicans and the ma?ana ethic is far more devastating than anything I've ever read in the anti-immigration literature. b. Gabriel Garcia Marquez, One Hundred Years of Solitude (1967). Probably the best novel of the past half-century. A wonderfully complex work with themes of the coming of civilization, the coming of capitalism, the confusion of time, the confusion of reality and the fabulousness of the New World, cycles of repetition of the fates characters with the same names, and of course solitude. I read guide books to help me keep track of the themes, as well as a casebook edited by Gene H. Bell-Villada. I can't make any great pronouncements about how non-Western mentalities differ from Western ones, not yet after reading just one book, esp. since the author is so deeply influenced by Western writers, esp., so I read, Faulkner. c. Neal Stephenson, The Diamond Age (1995). Thanks to Carolyn for giving me this book. Like OYOS, it is multi-layered but at a far lower level. It is set into the nanotechnological future, but like so many futuristic novels, how the underlying economy work is left unspecified, except for one hint, namely that now goods are basically free, what people do for a living is provide entertainment. But this failure to give an economic backdrop is widespread: implicitly, social economies run the world in _1984_, _Brave New World_, and _Player Piano_. I did find the book to be needlessly cryptic and overlong, though. The basic culture clash is between neo-Victorians and Confucians in a world without national governments but with continued tribal loyalties. (The main thread is the coming-of-age story of Nell, who managed to get a copy of the interactive book, A Young Lady's Illustrated Primer.) Still, I enjoyed reading it very much. d. Yuu Watase, _Alice 19th, vol. 1: Lotus Master_ (2001, a manga or Japanese comic book, adapted into English in 2003). I slipped this one in, which took me about an hour to read. It turns out I made a good choice, since Watase has the second most entries in the Google directory Arts > Comics > Manga > Creators. There's even a site devoted to the Alice 19th manga series, now numbering seven, http://geocities.com/alice2827, though there's not much there. Google and read the enthusiastic reviews on Amazon. The authors says she introduced a lot of "Western" elements into the work, including the name Alice itself. But she kept the boy hero Kyou Japanese. Sarah spoke to me of Shinto elements in the manga, but they elude me. In fact, it's not clear to me how Japanese teenagers differ from American teenagers. More reading, though probably not magnas, is clearly necessary. e. Steve Gregg, Revelation: Four Views: A Parallel Commentary. I have just started this 526-page book. This will not tell me much about non-Western ways of looking at the world, but it will be fascinating to read how there can be four different literalist interpretations of the last book of the Bible, all struggling for inner consistency. No theorizing here on how the book was written, though. I very much wonder if such a book exists outside the Occident. 3. THANKS TO ALL Thanks to all who sent me their recommendations, if not actual books! A few special remarks are in order. a. Thanks to Trish for recommending Orhan Pamuk's Snow, a novel just translated from the Turkish and published in January. It's a complex and enigmatic story about the clash between radical Islam and Western ideals and the inability to go back home. This is precisely the kind of literature I'm looking for. It seems that a great many non-Western novels deal with just this culture clash. A deeper question for me is how this differs from the clash *inside* the West between the faith of old and modern skepticism. b. Miriam objected to my classifying Latin American authors as non-Western, though no one objected to my lumping in Russian authors with the West. There is no end to these disputes, but I went along with what the Great Books folks call Western, which includes the products of Classical Civilization (I hold the Occident to comprise Classical, Western, and Darwinian Civilizations, though I commonly go along with everyone else and lump them together as "Western"), the Bible, and the Russians. (Randall Collins, in his great The Sociology of Philosophers, calls Islam Western.) My purpose is to broaden my awareness, and since I know little about Latin America and Islam, but have at least read some of the Russians, which I why I followed the Great Books division. c. Lynn, of Mormon background, recommends Orson Scott Card's science fiction novel, The Redemption of Christopher Columbus, which I will certainly add to my list. (You'll remember my posting Card's reaction to Mel Gibson's movie The Passion of the Christ.) He also recommends The Book of Mormon. While Mormonism is in many ways to me the most attractive version of Christianity (it's American and it offers continuing revelation), I'm afraid that just reading the book untoutered would be just as futile as reading the Book of Revelation without a guide. Later. Jerry says reading Wells would not inform me very deeply about human nature. True, perhaps, but I love casebooks, which is what my editions of The Time Machine and The War of the Worlds consist of. He suggests that the novels he wrote or co-wrote, The Mote in God's Eye, Footfall, and The Oath of Fealty, might fit the bill better. (Oh, I have read Jacques Barzun's From Dawn to Decadence and can recommend it to all who have not (yet) abandoned reality.) Please, Jerry, which one! I'm stressing getting a large diversity of authors under my belt at the moment and not reading several by one author. Carolyn objects to Isaac Asimov's The Seven Deadly Sins of Science Fiction, on the grounds that his novels almost never have women in them, that Asimov just can't handle half of the human race. (A story related to me from his ex-wife bears this out.) I shan't disagree, though in this case, the book was merely edited by Asimov. A lot of the science fiction I've accumulated consists of books I've pushed aside for years, really, and think I ought to read. Alice and Marti recommended the Harry Potter books, and others recommended C.S. Lewis, some of whose books I read a long time ago. Later. In the case of the Harry Potter books, I've read so much about them that I feel that I've actually read them. 4. MY NEXT READINGS a. Western novel: Sloan Wilson, The Man in the Gray Flannel Suit. Like On the Road, this is another novel of the 1950s protesting the excessive conformity of the era. And like the latter book, I've been meaning to read it for a long time. b. Non-Western novel: Orhan Pamuk, Snow. And again thanks to Trish. I won't wait till it comes out in paperback in June. I have moved it ahead of all others. Reviews in the magazine and on Amazon were almost uniformly very favorable. c. Science fiction: Frank Herbert, Dune. Jerry has doubts that this will fit my bill, but it is a decided classic. It sounds like a classic that will long be read and cherished. d. Religion: Thomas Cleary, translator and presenter, The Essential Koran. I still don't want to tackle the entire thing. I have read Michael Cook, The Koran: A Very Short Introduction (Oxford UP, 2000). 5. MY PLANNED RETURN I'll return with my usual postings after the first round of readings, that is, after I get through the 528-page, slow moving tome Revelation: Four Views: A Parallel Commentary. But I shall slow it down to finish getting through a stack of unread copies of The Times Literary Supplement and of various classical music magazines, like GlennGould and Fanfare, as well as some things I xeroxed while we were at UVa on our annual Labor Day visit and various other backlogged matters. I have already stacked up a hundred articles to forward, and I hope they have more lasting value than much of what I have sent in the past. This time, I shall make little attempt to do more than scan the majority of articles, since all this reading interferes with my abandoning reality. In return, I'd love it if anyone would alert me to anything esp. worthwhile. I did not miss all the commentaries about the Presidential election, except that I managed to find one illuminating piece, Redemption in American Politics, which will come after my return, I am not sure how many more months hence. Actually, hardly anything has happened since my 60th birthday that really affects me directly, though the various new political appointments may result in a bureaucratic reshuffling that will put me under a PSYCHOTIC SLAVE DRIVER. These things happen, and happen randomly, but I'm not very worried. But here is one event that boosts my personal happiness enormously and which I send as: 6. GOOGLE IS ADDING MAJOR LIBRARIES TO ITS DATABASE New York Times, December 14, 2004 By JOHN MARKOFF and EDWARD WYATT Google, the operator of the world's most popular Internet search service, plans to announce an agreement today with some of the nation's leading research libraries and Oxford University to begin converting their holdings into digital files that would be freely searchable over the Web. It may be only a step on a long road toward the long-predicted global virtual library. But the collaboration of Google and research institutions that also include Harvard, the University of Michigan, Stanford and the New York Public Library is a major stride in an ambitious Internet effort by various parties. The goal is to expand the Web beyond its current valuable, if eclectic, body of material and create a digital card catalog and searchable library for the world's books, scholarly papers and special collections. Google - newly wealthy from its stock offering last summer - has agreed to underwrite the projects being announced today while also adding its own technical abilities to the task of scanning and digitizing tens of thousands of pages a day at each library. Although Google executives declined to comment on its technology or the cost of the undertaking, others involved estimate the figure at $10 for each of the more than 15 million books and other documents covered in the agreements. Librarians involved predict the project could take at least a decade. Because the Google agreements are not exclusive, the pacts are almost certain to touch off a race with other major Internet search providers like Amazon, Microsoft and Yahoo. Like Google, they might seek the right to offer online access to library materials in return for selling advertising, while libraries would receive corporate help in digitizing their collections for their own institutional uses. "Within two decades, most of the world's knowledge will be digitized and available, one hopes for free reading on the Internet, just as there is free reading in libraries today," said Michael A. Keller, Stanford University's head librarian. The Google effort and others like it that are already under way, including projects by the Library of Congress to put selections of its best holdings online, are part of a trend to potentially democratize access to information that has long been available to only small, select groups of students and scholars. Last night the Library of Congress and a group of international libraries from the United States, Canada, Egypt, China and the Netherlands announced a plan to create a publicly available digital archive of one million books on the Internet. The group said it planned to have 70,000 volumes online by next April. "Having the great libraries at your fingertips allows us to build on and create great works based on the work of others," said Brewster Kahle, founder and president of the Internet Archive, a San Francisco-based digital library that is also trying to digitize existing print information. The agreements to be announced today will allow Google to publish the full text of only those library books old enough to no longer be under copyright. For copyrighted works, Google would scan in the entire text, but make only short excerpts available online. Each agreement with a library is slightly different. Google plans to digitize nearly all the eight million books in Stanford's collection and the seven million at Michigan. The Harvard project will initially be limited to only about 40,000 volumes. The scanning at Bodleian Library at Oxford will be limited to an unspecified number of books published before 1900, while the New York Public Library project will involve fragile material not under copyright that library officials said would be of interest primarily to scholars. The trend toward online libraries and virtual card catalogs is one that already has book publishers scrambling to respond. At least a dozen major publishing companies, including some of the country's biggest producers of nonfiction books - the primary target for the online text-search efforts - have already entered ventures with Google and Amazon that allow users to search the text of copyrighted books online and read excerpts. Publishers including HarperCollins, the Penguin Group, Houghton Mifflin and Scholastic have signed up for both the Google and Amazon programs. The largest American trade publisher, Random House, participates in Amazon's program but is still negotiating with Google, which calls its program Google Print. The Amazon and Google programs work by restricting the access of users to only a few pages of a copyrighted book during each search, offering enough to help them decide whether the book meets their requirements enough to justify ordering the print version. Those features restrict a user's ability to copy, cut or print the copyrighted material, while limiting on-screen reading to a few pages at a time. Books still under copyright at the libraries involved in Google's new project are likely to be protected by similar restrictions. The challenge for publishers in coming years will be to continue to have libraries serve as major influential buyers of their books, without letting the newly vast digital public reading rooms undermine the companies' ability to make money commissioning and publishing authors' work. >From the earliest days of the printing press, book publishers were wary of the development of libraries at all. In many instances, they opposed the idea of a central facility offering free access to books that people would otherwise be compelled to buy. But as libraries developed and publishers became aware that they could be among their best customers, that opposition faded. Now publishers aggressively court librarians with advance copies of books, seeking positive reviews of books in library journals and otherwise trying to influence the opinion of the people who influence the reading habits of millions. Some of that promotional impulse may translate to the online world, publishing executives say. But at least initially, the search services are likely to be most useful to publishers whose nonfiction backlists, or catalogs of previously published titles, are of interest to scholars but do not sell regularly enough to be carried in large quantities in retail stores, said David Steinberger, the president and chief executive the Perseus Books Group, which publishes mostly nonfiction books under the Basic Books, PublicAffairs, Da Capo and other imprints. Based on his experiences with Amazon's and Google's commercial search services so far, Mr. Steinberger said, "I think there is minimal risk, or virtually no risk, of copyrighted material being misused." But he said he would object to a library's providing copyrighted material online without a license. "If you're talking about the instantaneous, free distribution of books, I think that would represent a problem," Mr. Steinberger said. For their part, libraries themselves will have to rethink their central missions as storehouses of printed, indexed material. "Our world is about to change in a big, big way," said Daniel Greenstein, university librarian for the California Digital Library of the University of California, which is a project to organize and retain existing digital materials. Instead of expending considerable time and money to managing their collections of printed materials, Mr. Greenstein said, libraries in the future can devote more energy to gathering information and making it accessible - and more easily manageable - online. But Paul LeClerc, the president and chief executive of the New York Public Library, sees Web access as an expansion of libraries' reach, not a replacement for physical collections. "Librarians will add a new dimension to their work," Mr. LeClerc said. "They will not abandon their mission of collecting printed material and keeping them for decades and even centuries." Google's founders, Sergey Brin and Larry Page, have long vowed to make all of the world's information accessible to anyone with a Web browser. The agreements to be announced today will put them a few steps closer to that goal - at least in terms of the English-language portion of the world's information. Mr. Page said yesterday that the project traced to the roots of Google, which he and Mr. Brin founded in 1998 after taking a leave from a graduate computer science program at Stanford where they worked on a "digital libraries" project. "What we first discussed at Stanford is now becoming practical," Mr. Page said. At Stanford, Google hopes to be able to scan 50,000 pages a day within the month, eventually doubling that rate, according to a person involved in the project. The Google plan calls for making the library materials available as part of Google's regular Web service, which currently has an estimated eight billion Web pages in its database and tens of millions of users a day. As with the other information on its service, Google will sell advertising to generate revenue from its library material. (In it existing Google Print program, the company shares advertising revenue with the participating book publishers.) Each library, meanwhile, will receive its own copy of the digital database created from that institution's holdings, which the library can make available through its own Web site if it chooses. Harvard officials said they would be happy to use the Internet to share their collections widely. "We have always thought of our libraries at Harvard as being a global resource," said Lawrence H. Summers, president of Harvard. At least initially, Google's digitizing task will be labor intensive, with people placing the books and documents on sophisticated scanners whose high-resolution cameras capture an image of each page and convert it to a digital file. Google, whose corporate campus in Mountain View, Calif., is just a few miles from Stanford, plans to transport books to a copying center it has established at its headquarters. There the books will be scanned and then returned to the Stanford libraries. Google plans to set up remote scanning operations at both Michigan and Harvard. The company refused to comment on the technology that it was using to digitize books, except to say that it was nondestructive. But according to a person who has been briefed on the project, Google's technology is more labor-intensive than systems that are already commercially available. Two small start-up companies, 4DigitalBooks of St. Aubin, Switzerland, and Kirtas Technologies of Victor, N.Y., are selling systems that automatically turn pages to capture images. http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/14/technology/14google.html From shovland at mindspring.com Fri Dec 17 02:52:54 2004 From: shovland at mindspring.com (Steve Hovland) Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 18:52:54 -0800 Subject: [Paleopsych] inner judges on the rampage Message-ID: <01C4E3A0.745CAE40.shovland@mindspring.com> The mention of Phenylalanine came from a book I have on amino acids. When I looked up the metabolic pathway I didn't find much: http://www.genome.jp/kegg/pathway/map/map00360.html But the same book also mentions Tyrosine, and there a lot happens: L-Dopa (re Parkinson's), dopamine, noradrenaline, adrenaline, normetanephrine, metanephrine. http://www.genome.jp/kegg/pathway/map/map00360.html Look in the lower right area of the chart. It may be that Phenyl can be used to make Tyrosine. But yes, if I take 500mg of Phenylalanine and 500mg of Tyrosine in the morning with a couple of cups of coffee I get so speedy I don't get much done. Today I took Tyrosine with breakfast and Phenyl after lunch and had a very productive day :-) To me this is nutricology: using food to improve health, in this case mental health. Psychiatric drugs like SSRI's work by interfering with the metabolic pathway. There are a lot of things downstream from seratonin in the Tryptophan pathway, so it's no wonder there are a lot of side effects. Steve Hovland www.stevehovland.net -----Original Message----- From: Christian Rauh [SMTP:christian.rauh at uconn.edu] Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 9:43 PM To: The new improved paleopsych list Subject: Re: [Paleopsych] inner judges on the rampage Does phenylalanine really have an effect or is this just a joke? I mean, diet coke? Christian Steve Hovland wrote: > The amino acids l-phenylalanine and l-tyrosine > are precursors to catecholamines. > > At this time of year I am supplementing with both > of those to overcome winter blahs. I'm doing very well. > > I take 500m of tyrosine at breakfast and 500mg > of phenylalanine at lunch and finish the day > with high energy. > > Tyrosine is also supposed to boost dopamine. > > Phenylalanine combined with too much coffee > shatters my ability to concentrate. > > Tryptophan is a precursor to seratonin, but at this time > of year that is not good for me. > > I tend to be high at midyear and take tryptophan > then to smooth me out. > > Steve Hovland > www.stevehovland.net > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Geraldine Reinhardt [SMTP:waluk at earthlink.net] > Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 7:50 PM > To: The new improved paleopsych list > Subject: Re: [Paleopsych] inner judges on the rampage > > I certainly hope so because my research is coincident > to that of Ross. Low catecholamines is worth > investigation as in low serotonin yet my bottom line is > how to increase both chemicals. Is this done > physically or psychologically? > > > Gerry Reinhart-Waller > Independent Scholar > http://www.home.earthlink.net/~waluk > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve Hovland" > To: "'The new improved paleopsych list'" > > Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 6:18 PM > Subject: RE: [Paleopsych] inner judges on the rampage > > > >>Ross- do you think you will be able to find >>some hard science to confirm your theories >>about 2 forms of depression? >> >>Steve Hovland >>www.stevehovland.net >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Ross Buck [SMTP:ross.buck at uconn.edu] >>Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 8:36 AM >>To: 'The new improved paleopsych list'; >>HowlBloom at aol.com >>Subject: RE: [Paleopsych] inner judges on the rampage >> >>Howard: >> >> >> >>I agree with that control (competence) is a key >>determinant of whether one >>is of value or not, but it is only half the picture. >>The other is being >>loved. Effectance/competence motivation and >>attachment-love are the two >>great biomotivators of higher-level emotions/motives >>in human beings (and >>other creatures), and I think they are fully >>dissociable. I have >>hypothesized that a lack of control is associated >>with Type A major >>depression (associated with low catecholamines) and a >>lack of love is >>associated with Type B major depression (associated >>with low serotonin). >>These are ancient mechanisms: serotonin will turn on >>threat displays in >>lobsters, and SSRIs are effective for many (not all) >>depressions. All else >>equal, men may be more susceptible to Type A >>depression and women to Type B, >>and there is recent evidence that depression is >>associated with >>right-hemisphere mechanisms in men and >>left-hemisphere mechanisms in women. >>I think the LH is particularly associated with >>prosocial emotions (including >>the emotions/motives underlying the learning, >>teaching, and use of language) >>and the RH with individualist emotions/motives. >> >> >> >>Cheers, Ross >> >> >> >>References: >> >> >> >> Buck, R. (1999). The biological affects: A >>typology. Psychological >>Review. 106(2), 301-336. >> >> >> >> Buck, R. (2002). The genetics and biology of >>true love: Prosocial >>biological affects and the left hemisphere. >>Psychological Review. 109(4). >>739-744. >> >> >> >> >> >>Ross Buck, Ph. D. >> >>Professor of Communication Sciences >> >> and Psychology >> >>Communication Sciences U-1085 >> >>University of Connecticut >> >>Storrs, CT 06269-1085 >> >>860-486-4494 >> >>fax 860-486-5422 >> >>buck at uconnvm.uconn.edu >> >>http://www.coms.uconn.edu/docs/people/faculty/rbuck/index.htm >> >> >> >> >> >>"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as >>when they do it from >>religious conviction." >> >>-- Blaise Pascal >> >> >> >> _____ >> >>From: paleopsych-bounces at paleopsych.org >>[mailto:paleopsych-bounces at paleopsych.org] On Behalf >>Of HowlBloom at aol.com >>Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 12:21 AM >>To: paleopsych at paleopsych.org >>Subject: [Paleopsych] inner judges on the rampage >> >> >> >>If the theory put forth in my first book, The Lucifer >>Principle: A >>Scientific Expedition Into the Forces of History, is >>at all correct, >>evolution has riddled us with self-destruct >>mechanisms, mechanisms that do >>away with us when we are not a part of the solution, >>we are part of the >>problem. By shutting us down, our self-destruct >>mechanisms shunt resources >>to those who have a handle on the crisis at hand and >>snatches the goods away >>from those who can't get a grip on things. She >>turns on those who >>contribute to the neural net, to the complex adaptive >>system, to the >>collective learning machine-just as she hands out >>bio-prizes to useful >>citizens of the immune system, lymphocytes and >>bio-punishments to citizens >>whose specialization is momentarily irrelevant. >>Evolution, biology, >>physiology, or whatever you choose to call our stress >>mechanism and her grim >>reapers do this to maximize the intelligence of the >>collective enterprise. >>In the case of the immune system, some are made >>wealthy and vigorous, and >>some are made weak and imporvished so that the >>overall system can defeat >>invaders. >> >> >> >>The key determiner of whether you are of value or not >>seems to be the extent >>to which you feel you have control. >> >> >> >>Is the fact that, >> >> >> >>"The pressure of meeting a work deadline can produce >>a sixfold increase in >>the risk of suffering a heart attack over the course >>of the following day. >>And competition at work could double the ongoing >>risk" >> >> >> >>an example of a self-destruct mechanism at work? Has >>evolution done what my >>second book, Global Brain: The Evolution of Mass Mind >>From The Big Bang to >>the 21st Century, claims? Has it seated inner judges >>within us to determine >>who wins and loses the competition and who is and is >>not up to the >>challenge-of-the-day? Howard >> >> >> >>Retrieved December 15, 2004, from the World Wide Web >> >>http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99996786 >> >> Stressful deadlines boost heart attack risk 00:01 14 >>December 04 >>NewScientist.com news service The pressure of meeting >>a work deadline can >>produce a sixfold increase in the risk of suffering a >>heart attack over the >>course of the following day. And competition at work >>could double the >>ongoing risk, according to a new study. Previous >>research has shown that >>intense anger, sexual activity and emotional stress >>can all lead to heart >>attacks. But this is the first time having an intense >>work deadline has been >>singled out as a trigger for heart attack over such a >>short timescale. >>"This is potentially important for patients and for >>Swedish work law," says >>lead author Jette Moller of the Karolinska Institutet >>in Stockholm, Sweden. >>"Changes in the labour market organisation have >>created more stress and >>people should be aware of the impact on health." She >>cites workload, lower >>job security and increased competition in the >>workplace as factors. The >>study questioned nearly 1400 heart attack survivors >>from the Stockholm area, >>aged 45 to 70, about the period leading up to their >>first heart attack. They >>were compared with a control group of about 1700 >>people who had not had a >>heart attack. The volunteers were asked questions >>about their work over the >>last year and over the days immediately before their >>heart attack. The >>questions included whether they had been criticised >>for their performance or >>lateness, been promoted or laid off, faced a >>high-pressure deadline at work, >>changed their workplace and whether their financial >>situation had changed. >>Money worries The results show that intense pressure >>over a short period >>increased the risk of a heart attack more than a >>build up of stress over an >>entire year, and that the heart attack can follow >>very soon after this spell >>of increased pressure. Amongst the heart attack >>group, 8% had faced a >>significant event at work less than 24 hours before >>their attack. However, >>long-term changes also play a part. Taking on extra >>responsibility at work >>over the last year - if viewed negatively by the >>participant - increased the >>chance of a heart attack by almost four times in >>women and over six times in >>men. And a deterioration in financial situation >>tripled the risk of a heart >>attack amongst women. Subscribe to New Scientist for >>more news and features >>Related Stories Downsizing raises risk of death in >>workers 23 February 2004 >>Science graduates live long and prosper 01 August >>2003 Unfair bosses make >>blood pressure soar 24 June 2003 For more related >>stories search the print >>edition Archive Weblinks Social Epidemiology >>Research, Karolinska >>Institutet, Stockholm George Fieldman, >>Buckinghamshire Chilterns University >>College Journal of Epidemiology and Community Health >>George Fieldman, an >>expert in cognitive therapy and health psychology at >>Buckinghamshire >>Chilterns University College in the UK, says the >>sixfold increase in risk >>caused by meeting a deadline is massive, but not >>surprising. He points out >>that previous research has shown that a person's >>chance of suffering a heart >>attack is higher on a Monday morning. He adds these >>studies can help to >>pinpoint the stress risk factors for heart attacks. >>"It is difficult to >>unpick the details of what constitutes stress for >>different people in >>different situations," he says. The study shows that >>stress at work can >>pose a very real and immediate threat to health, >>Fieldman says, and adds: "I >>must remember to take it easy." Journal reference: >>Journal of Epidemiology >>and Community Health (DOI: 10.1136/jech.2003.019349) >>Katharine Davis >> >> >> >>---------- >>Howard Bloom >>Author of The Lucifer Principle: A Scientific >>Expedition Into the Forces of >>History and Global Brain: The Evolution of Mass Mind >>From The Big Bang to >>the 21st Century >>Visiting Scholar-Graduate Psychology Department, New >>York University; Core >>Faculty Member, The Graduate Institute >>www.howardbloom.net >>www.bigbangtango.net >>Founder: International Paleopsychology Project; >>founding board member: Epic >>of Evolution Society; founding board member, The >>Darwin Project; founder: >>The Big Bang Tango Media Lab; member: New York >>Academy of Sciences, American >>Association for the Advancement of Science, American >>Psychological Society, >>Academy of Political Science, Human Behavior and >>Evolution Society, >>International Society for Human Ethology; advisory >>board member: >>Youthactivism.org; executive editor -- New Paradigm >>book series. >>For information on The International Paleopsychology >>Project, see: >>www.paleopsych.org >>for two chapters from >>The Lucifer Principle: A Scientific Expedition Into >>the Forces of History, >>see www.howardbloom.net/lucifer >>For information on Global Brain: The Evolution of >>Mass Mind from the Big >>Bang to the 21st Century, see www.howardbloom.net >> >><< File: ATT00029.html >> << File: ATT00030.txt >> >>_______________________________________________ >>paleopsych mailing list >>paleopsych at paleopsych.org >>http://lists.paleopsych.org/mailman/listinfo/paleopsych >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > paleopsych mailing list > paleopsych at paleopsych.org > http://lists.paleopsych.org/mailman/listinfo/paleopsych > _______________________________________________ > paleopsych mailing list > paleopsych at paleopsych.org > http://lists.paleopsych.org/mailman/listinfo/paleopsych -- ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? A little patience, and we shall see the reign of witches pass over, their spells dissolve, and the people, recovering their true sight, restore their government to its true principles. It is true that in the meantime we are suffering deeply in spirit, and incurring the horrors of a war and long oppressions of enormous public debt...... If the game runs sometimes against us at home we must have patience till luck turns, and then we shall have an opportunity of winning back the principles we have lost, for this is a game where principles are at stake. - Thomas Jefferson, from a letter he sent in 1798 after the passage of the Sedition Act _____________________________________________________________________ ???????????????????????????????$o$??????????????????????????????????? _______________________________________________ paleopsych mailing list paleopsych at paleopsych.org http://lists.paleopsych.org/mailman/listinfo/paleopsych From shovland at mindspring.com Fri Dec 17 02:57:03 2004 From: shovland at mindspring.com (Steve Hovland) Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 18:57:03 -0800 Subject: [Paleopsych] inner judges on the rampage Message-ID: <01C4E3A1.089A8280.shovland@mindspring.com> I do take essential fatty acids on the form of flaxseed oil, and find it has an immediate calming effect. I tried SAMe for awhile. After a few days I was spouting witticisms non-stop so I gave it up :-) My seasonal effects go from depression at the winter solstice to a somewhat manic state at spring solstice. I've fiddled with this for a number of years and now I think that in the spring and summer I will take extra Tryptophan and during fall and winter go the Phenyl/Tyrosine route. Steve Hovland www.stevehovland.net -----Original Message----- From: Lynn D. Johnson, Ph.D. [SMTP:ljohnson at solution-consulting.com] Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 7:09 AM To: The new improved paleopsych list Subject: Re: [Paleopsych] inner judges on the rampage Howard, Your comment reminded me of the studies suggesting that the hippocampus atrophies secondary to long depression. Thus the depressed person cannot recall good experiences and is unable to make decisions. Psychotherapy or anti-depressants will prevent that atrophy. Also, there is substantial evidence that fish oil, likely the EPA in fish oil, is a preventative of depression. Population studies (Iceland, Japan) show very low levels of depression among those who eat fish. The EPA seems to prevent inflammation, so clearly the body is attacking itself during depression. DHEA is converted by the body from pregnenalone, but so is cortisol. Parasympathetic arousal produces DHEA, while sympathetic arousal produces cortisol. Cortisol is elevated in depressed persons and may be the agent causing the hippocampus artophy. Long-term cortisol elevation is damaging to the body. 90 mgs q day of DHEA was shown to reverse depression. SAMe seems to treat depression well and there are some studies about it also helps slow arthritis, so the inflammation / self-attack notion seems to hold up there. If I were prone to depression, I would take it. Since I have osteoarthritis and a family history of heart attacks, I take fish oil and flax seed / walnuts, and they seem to help. I am planning on adding SAMe to keep my knees working until I am 70. Ross' idea about two depressions is intriguing, and I would like to learn more about that. Lynn _______________________________________________ paleopsych mailing list paleopsych at paleopsych.org http://lists.paleopsych.org/mailman/listinfo/paleopsych From shovland at mindspring.com Fri Dec 17 03:01:24 2004 From: shovland at mindspring.com (Steve Hovland) Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 19:01:24 -0800 Subject: [Paleopsych] inner judges: all you need is love Message-ID: <01C4E3A1.A44E6F20.shovland@mindspring.com> As a person who has struggled with depression my whole life, I would say there is both a psychic and physical component, and you need to treat both. Given that Tyrosine makes me feel better but has no effect on seratonin, I am suspicious about the association between seratonin and depression. I would say that the "Prozac poop-out" in part occurs because not enough raw amino acid material is arriving at the site of the action. Also I have hear that some people think that Prozac cause neuron die-off. And are you aware that Prozac is toxic to the Isles of Langerhans, which means that it cause diabetes, a common cause of death? Steve Hovland www.stevehovland.net -----Original Message----- From: Ross Buck [SMTP:ross.buck at uconn.edu] Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 9:30 AM To: 'The new improved paleopsych list' Subject: RE: [Paleopsych] inner judges: all you need is love As these postings indicate, there is much hard science behind the biology of depression, although control issues seem important as well: coming up with one's own regimen and believing in it may in itself have as much effect as the amino acids themselves. On the other hand, taking major antidepressants may alter the biology (temporarily) but may by implication and in fact represent a ceding of control which may haunt one later if the drug by its very nature alters the natural system and thereby becomes less effective ("Prozac poop-out"). Regarding the existence of the two types of depression, that is not my idea but is a generally recognized medical distinction between catecholamine-deficit Type A versus serotonin-deficit Type B depression. My suggestion is that 1. these represent deficits in individualist effectance and prosocial attachment motive/emotions, respectively, 2. for many reasons males tend to be affected more by effectance deficits and females by attachment deficits, and 3. individualist effectance is particularly associated with right hemisphere and prosocial attachment with left hemisphere mechanisms. These are testable hypotheses, and in fact are consistent with much data as is reviewed in my Psych Review papers referenced below. I welcome comments thoughts, and criticisms about this. Howard's original point, that evolution has riddled us with self-destruct mechanisms, is quite compatible with the notion that being loved is a key determinant of whether one is of value. There is plentiful evidence that social support has strong stress-buffering effects, and that isolation and particularly bereavement can be devastating physiologically. I suggest that nonverbal-emotional communication has bioregulatory functions that mediate these effects. I also think that, all else equal, being loved is a more powerful determinant of one's value than being competent in an individualist-effectance sense. Might as well face it, we're addicted to love... Cheers, Ross -----Original Message----- From: paleopsych-bounces at paleopsych.org [mailto:paleopsych-bounces at paleopsych.org] On Behalf Of Richard Metzger Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 1:28 AM To: The new improved paleopsych list Subject: Re: [Paleopsych] inner judges on the rampage I have a similar regimen with these same amino acids mentioned here and it works great for me too. One feels *quite* peppy during the day, especially l-phenylalanine taken with coffee. It's like rocket fuel and it works quite well at staving off depression, I wholeheartedly agree. It's all I need to do, in fact. Richard On Dec 15, 2004, at 9:43 PM, Christian Rauh wrote: > Does phenylalanine really have an effect or is this just a joke? I > mean, diet coke? > > Christian > > Steve Hovland wrote: >> The amino acids l-phenylalanine and l-tyrosine >> are precursors to catecholamines. At this time of year I am >> supplementing with both of those to overcome winter blahs. I'm doing >> very well. >> I take 500m of tyrosine at breakfast and 500mg >> of phenylalanine at lunch and finish the day >> with high energy. Tyrosine is also supposed to boost dopamine. >> Phenylalanine combined with too much coffee >> shatters my ability to concentrate. >> Tryptophan is a precursor to seratonin, but at this time of year that >> is not good for me. >> I tend to be high at midyear and take tryptophan >> then to smooth me out. >> Steve Hovland >> www.stevehovland.net >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Geraldine Reinhardt [SMTP:waluk at earthlink.net] >> Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 7:50 PM >> To: The new improved paleopsych list >> Subject: Re: [Paleopsych] inner judges on the rampage >> I certainly hope so because my research is coincident to that of >> Ross. Low catecholamines is worth investigation as in low serotonin >> yet my bottom line is how to increase both chemicals. Is this done >> physically or psychologically? >> Gerry Reinhart-Waller >> Independent Scholar >> http://www.home.earthlink.net/~waluk >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Hovland" >> >> To: "'The new improved paleopsych list'" >> Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 6:18 PM >> Subject: RE: [Paleopsych] inner judges on the rampage >>> Ross- do you think you will be able to find >>> some hard science to confirm your theories >>> about 2 forms of depression? >>> >>> Steve Hovland >>> www.stevehovland.net >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Ross Buck [SMTP:ross.buck at uconn.edu] >>> Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 8:36 AM >>> To: 'The new improved paleopsych list'; HowlBloom at aol.com >>> Subject: RE: [Paleopsych] inner judges on the rampage >>> >>> Howard: >>> >>> >>> >>> I agree with that control (competence) is a key determinant of >>> whether one >>> is of value or not, but it is only half the picture. The other is >>> being >>> loved. Effectance/competence motivation and attachment-love are the >>> two >>> great biomotivators of higher-level emotions/motives in human beings >>> (and >>> other creatures), and I think they are fully dissociable. I have >>> hypothesized that a lack of control is associated with Type A major >>> depression (associated with low catecholamines) and a lack of love is >>> associated with Type B major depression (associated with low >>> serotonin). >>> These are ancient mechanisms: serotonin will turn on threat displays >>> in >>> lobsters, and SSRIs are effective for many (not all) depressions. >>> All else >>> equal, men may be more susceptible to Type A depression and women to >>> Type B, >>> and there is recent evidence that depression is associated with >>> right-hemisphere mechanisms in men and left-hemisphere mechanisms in >>> women. >>> I think the LH is particularly associated with prosocial emotions >>> (including >>> the emotions/motives underlying the learning, teaching, and use of >>> language) >>> and the RH with individualist emotions/motives. >>> >>> >>> >>> Cheers, Ross >>> >>> >>> >>> References: >>> >>> >>> >>> Buck, R. (1999). The biological affects: A typology. >>> Psychological >>> Review. 106(2), 301-336. >>> >>> >>> >>> Buck, R. (2002). The genetics and biology of true love: >>> Prosocial >>> biological affects and the left hemisphere. Psychological Review. >>> 109(4). >>> 739-744. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Ross Buck, Ph. D. >>> >>> Professor of Communication Sciences >>> >>> and Psychology >>> >>> Communication Sciences U-1085 >>> >>> University of Connecticut >>> >>> Storrs, CT 06269-1085 >>> >>> 860-486-4494 >>> >>> fax 860-486-5422 >>> >>> buck at uconnvm.uconn.edu >>> >>> http://www.coms.uconn.edu/docs/people/faculty/rbuck/index.htm >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it >>> from >>> religious conviction." >>> >>> -- Blaise Pascal >>> >>> >>> >>> _____ >>> >>> From: paleopsych-bounces at paleopsych.org >>> [mailto:paleopsych-bounces at paleopsych.org] On Behalf Of >>> HowlBloom at aol.com >>> Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 12:21 AM >>> To: paleopsych at paleopsych.org >>> Subject: [Paleopsych] inner judges on the rampage >>> >>> >>> >>> If the theory put forth in my first book, The Lucifer Principle: A >>> Scientific Expedition Into the Forces of History, is at all correct, >>> evolution has riddled us with self-destruct mechanisms, mechanisms >>> that do >>> away with us when we are not a part of the solution, we are part of >>> the >>> problem. By shutting us down, our self-destruct mechanisms shunt >>> resources >>> to those who have a handle on the crisis at hand and snatches the >>> goods away >>> from those who can't get a grip on things. She turns on those who >>> contribute to the neural net, to the complex adaptive system, to the >>> collective learning machine-just as she hands out bio-prizes to >>> useful >>> citizens of the immune system, lymphocytes and bio-punishments to >>> citizens >>> whose specialization is momentarily irrelevant. Evolution, biology, >>> physiology, or whatever you choose to call our stress mechanism and >>> her grim >>> reapers do this to maximize the intelligence of the collective >>> enterprise. >>> In the case of the immune system, some are made wealthy and >>> vigorous, and >>> some are made weak and imporvished so that the overall system can >>> defeat >>> invaders. >>> >>> >>> >>> The key determiner of whether you are of value or not seems to be >>> the extent >>> to which you feel you have control. >>> >>> >>> >>> Is the fact that, >>> >>> >>> >>> "The pressure of meeting a work deadline can produce a sixfold >>> increase in >>> the risk of suffering a heart attack over the course of the >>> following day. >>> And competition at work could double the ongoing risk" >>> >>> >>> >>> an example of a self-destruct mechanism at work? Has evolution done >>> what my >>> second book, Global Brain: The Evolution of Mass Mind From The Big >>> Bang to >>> the 21st Century, claims? Has it seated inner judges within us to >>> determine >>> who wins and loses the competition and who is and is not up to the >>> challenge-of-the-day? Howard >>> >>> >>> >>> Retrieved December 15, 2004, from the World Wide Web >>> >>> http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99996786 >>> >>> Stressful deadlines boost heart attack risk 00:01 14 December 04 >>> NewScientist.com news service The pressure of meeting a work >>> deadline can >>> produce a sixfold increase in the risk of suffering a heart attack >>> over the >>> course of the following day. And competition at work could double the >>> ongoing risk, according to a new study. Previous research has shown >>> that >>> intense anger, sexual activity and emotional stress can all lead to >>> heart >>> attacks. But this is the first time having an intense work deadline >>> has been >>> singled out as a trigger for heart attack over such a short >>> timescale. >>> "This is potentially important for patients and for Swedish work >>> law," says >>> lead author Jette Moller of the Karolinska Institutet in Stockholm, >>> Sweden. >>> "Changes in the labour market organisation have created more stress >>> and >>> people should be aware of the impact on health." She cites workload, >>> lower >>> job security and increased competition in the workplace as factors. >>> The >>> study questioned nearly 1400 heart attack survivors from the >>> Stockholm area, >>> aged 45 to 70, about the period leading up to their first heart >>> attack. They >>> were compared with a control group of about 1700 people who had not >>> had a >>> heart attack. The volunteers were asked questions about their work >>> over the >>> last year and over the days immediately before their heart attack. >>> The >>> questions included whether they had been criticised for their >>> performance or >>> lateness, been promoted or laid off, faced a high-pressure deadline >>> at work, >>> changed their workplace and whether their financial situation had >>> changed. >>> Money worries The results show that intense pressure over a short >>> period >>> increased the risk of a heart attack more than a build up of stress >>> over an >>> entire year, and that the heart attack can follow very soon after >>> this spell >>> of increased pressure. Amongst the heart attack group, 8% had faced a >>> significant event at work less than 24 hours before their attack. >>> However, >>> long-term changes also play a part. Taking on extra responsibility >>> at work >>> over the last year - if viewed negatively by the participant - >>> increased the >>> chance of a heart attack by almost four times in women and over six >>> times in >>> men. And a deterioration in financial situation tripled the risk of >>> a heart >>> attack amongst women. Subscribe to New Scientist for more news and >>> features >>> Related Stories Downsizing raises risk of death in workers 23 >>> February 2004 >>> Science graduates live long and prosper 01 August 2003 Unfair >>> bosses make >>> blood pressure soar 24 June 2003 For more related stories search >>> the print >>> edition Archive Weblinks Social Epidemiology Research, Karolinska >>> Institutet, Stockholm George Fieldman, Buckinghamshire Chilterns >>> University >>> College Journal of Epidemiology and Community Health George >>> Fieldman, an >>> expert in cognitive therapy and health psychology at Buckinghamshire >>> Chilterns University College in the UK, says the sixfold increase in >>> risk >>> caused by meeting a deadline is massive, but not surprising. He >>> points out >>> that previous research has shown that a person's chance of suffering >>> a heart >>> attack is higher on a Monday morning. He adds these studies can help >>> to >>> pinpoint the stress risk factors for heart attacks. "It is difficult >>> to >>> unpick the details of what constitutes stress for different people in >>> different situations," he says. The study shows that stress at work >>> can >>> pose a very real and immediate threat to health, Fieldman says, and >>> adds: "I >>> must remember to take it easy." Journal reference: Journal of >>> Epidemiology >>> and Community Health (DOI: 10.1136/jech.2003.019349) Katharine Davis >>> >>> >>> >>> ---------- >>> Howard Bloom >>> Author of The Lucifer Principle: A Scientific Expedition Into the >>> Forces of >>> History and Global Brain: The Evolution of Mass Mind From The Big >>> Bang to >>> the 21st Century >>> Visiting Scholar-Graduate Psychology Department, New York >>> University; Core >>> Faculty Member, The Graduate Institute >>> www.howardbloom.net >>> www.bigbangtango.net >>> Founder: International Paleopsychology Project; founding board >>> member: Epic >>> of Evolution Society; founding board member, The Darwin Project; >>> founder: >>> The Big Bang Tango Media Lab; member: New York Academy of Sciences, >>> American >>> Association for the Advancement of Science, American Psychological >>> Society, >>> Academy of Political Science, Human Behavior and Evolution Society, >>> International Society for Human Ethology; advisory board member: >>> Youthactivism.org; executive editor -- New Paradigm book series. >>> For information on The International Paleopsychology Project, see: >>> www.paleopsych.org >>> for two chapters from >>> The Lucifer Principle: A Scientific Expedition Into the Forces of >>> History, >>> see www.howardbloom.net/lucifer >>> For information on Global Brain: The Evolution of Mass Mind from the >>> Big >>> Bang to the 21st Century, see www.howardbloom.net >>> >>> << File: ATT00029.html >> << File: ATT00030.txt >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> paleopsych mailing list >>> paleopsych at paleopsych.org >>> http://lists.paleopsych.org/mailman/listinfo/paleopsych >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> paleopsych mailing list >> paleopsych at paleopsych.org >> http://lists.paleopsych.org/mailman/listinfo/paleopsych >> _______________________________________________ >> paleopsych mailing list >> paleopsych at paleopsych.org >> http://lists.paleopsych.org/mailman/listinfo/paleopsych > > -- > > ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? > A little patience, and we shall see the reign of witches pass over, > their spells dissolve, and the people, recovering their true sight, > restore their government to its true principles. It is true that in > the meantime we are suffering deeply in spirit, and incurring the > horrors of a war and long oppressions of enormous public debt...... > If the game runs sometimes against us at home we must have patience > till luck turns, and then we shall have an opportunity of winning > back the principles we have lost, for this is a game where > principles are at stake. > > - Thomas Jefferson, from a letter he sent in 1798 after > the passage of the Sedition Act > > _____________________________________________________________________ > ???????????????????????????????$o$??????????????????????????????????? > _______________________________________________ > paleopsych mailing list > paleopsych at paleopsych.org > http://lists.paleopsych.org/mailman/listinfo/paleopsych > Richard Metzger The Disinformation Company Ltd. 207 West 25th St. 4th floor New York, NY 10001 212 691 1605 http://www.disinfo.com _______________________________________________ paleopsych mailing list paleopsych at paleopsych.org http://lists.paleopsych.org/mailman/listinfo/paleopsych _______________________________________________ paleopsych mailing list paleopsych at paleopsych.org http://lists.paleopsych.org/mailman/listinfo/paleopsych From shovland at mindspring.com Fri Dec 17 03:02:38 2004 From: shovland at mindspring.com (Steve Hovland) Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 19:02:38 -0800 Subject: [Paleopsych] control Message-ID: <01C4E3A1.D05D1EE0.shovland@mindspring.com> I would tend to think that it can be a positive sum game, Imagine a society in which everyone was vigorously striving to achieve some worthwhile goal! Steve Hovland www.stevehovland.net -----Original Message----- From: Michael Christopher [SMTP:anonymous_animus at yahoo.com] Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 12:35 PM To: paleopsych at paleopsych.org Subject: [Paleopsych] control >>Feeling in control is important, but taking control of yourself in a situation is just as important as being in control of the situation.<< --Good point. I think it would be useful to look at social stratification not in terms of financial worth, but in terms of how much control a person is able to feel he has in his everyday life. Those who feel out of control, regardless of their economic situation, are going to have a very different worldview from those who feel they have control. One question: can everyone feel in control, or is it a zero-sum game? Michael __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo _______________________________________________ paleopsych mailing list paleopsych at paleopsych.org http://lists.paleopsych.org/mailman/listinfo/paleopsych From shovland at mindspring.com Fri Dec 17 03:21:51 2004 From: shovland at mindspring.com (Steve Hovland) Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 19:21:51 -0800 Subject: [Paleopsych] Moving Forward on the Problem of Consciousness Message-ID: <01C4E3A4.7F575CB0.shovland@mindspring.com> more at: http://cogprints.org/317/00/moving.html David J. Chalmers Department of Philosophy University of California Santa Cruz, CA 63130 chalmers at paradox.ucsc.edu *[[[This paper is a response to the commentaries in the Journal of Consciousness Studies on my paper "Facing Up to the Problem of Consciousness." Thanks to Gregg Rosenberg, Jonathan Shear, and Sharon Wahl for helpful comments.]]] 1 INTRODUCTION I am very grateful to all the contributors to this symposium for their thoughtful comments. The various papers reflect a wide range of approaches and of views, yielding a rich snapshot of the current state of play on the problem of consciousness. There are some interesting criticisms of my point of view, which I hope to address in this reply in a way that clarifies the central issues at hand, and there are also a number of intriguing positive proposals for confronting the problem. I am honored to have provided an opportunity to bring such a thought-provoking collection of ideas together. When I wrote my paper, I had no idea that it would be subject to such close analysis. That may be a good thing, as all the hedges, qualifications, and citations I would have added if I had known might have made the paper close to unreadable, or at any rate twice the size. But it also means that the paper - intended as a crisp presentation of some central issues, mostly for non-philosophers - skates quickly over some subtleties and has less flesh on its bones than it might. I will try to flesh out the picture in this piece, while still keeping the discussion at a non-technical level. A more detailed presentation can be found in my book The Conscious Mind, to which I will occasionally point in this response. From ljohnson at solution-consulting.com Fri Dec 17 04:31:56 2004 From: ljohnson at solution-consulting.com (Lynn D. Johnson, Ph.D.) Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 21:31:56 -0700 Subject: [Paleopsych] inner judges calmed by fishes In-Reply-To: <01C4E3A1.089A8280.shovland@mindspring.com> References: <01C4E3A1.089A8280.shovland@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <41C2613B.2090800@solution-consulting.com> The ALA in flaxseed will convert to EPA in the body. I am told by physiologists that not much converts (ca. 10%), but I have seen some good results with flaxseed oil in depressed patients. I grind flax seed in a coffee grinder in the AM and sprinkle it over my raw oatmeal, soak in milk and eat. I do that to reduce my blood pressure (family history is positive) and it seems to work very well. I am now low on bp and low in cholesteral. I have one woman with a long history of rapid-cycle bipolar who is stable on fish oil alone, and in the face of severe environmental stressors which in the past triggered depressive cycles. So I am quite impressed with the fish oil. Steve Hovland wrote: >I do take essential fatty acids on the form of flaxseed oil, >and find it has an immediate calming effect. > >I tried SAMe for awhile. After a few days I was spouting >witticisms non-stop so I gave it up :-) > >My seasonal effects go from depression at the winter solstice >to a somewhat manic state at spring solstice. I've fiddled with >this for a number of years and now I think that in the spring and >summer I will take extra Tryptophan and during fall and winter >go the Phenyl/Tyrosine route. > >Steve Hovland >www.stevehovland.net > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Lynn D. Johnson, Ph.D. [SMTP:ljohnson at solution-consulting.com] >Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 7:09 AM >To: The new improved paleopsych list >Subject: Re: [Paleopsych] inner judges on the rampage > >Howard, >Your comment reminded me of the studies suggesting that the hippocampus >atrophies secondary to long depression. Thus the depressed person cannot >recall good experiences and is unable to make decisions. Psychotherapy >or anti-depressants will prevent that atrophy. > >Also, there is substantial evidence that fish oil, likely the EPA in >fish oil, is a preventative of depression. Population studies (Iceland, >Japan) show very low levels of depression among those who eat fish. The >EPA seems to prevent inflammation, so clearly the body is attacking >itself during depression. > >DHEA is converted by the body from pregnenalone, but so is cortisol. >Parasympathetic arousal produces DHEA, while sympathetic arousal >produces cortisol. Cortisol is elevated in depressed persons and may be >the agent causing the hippocampus artophy. Long-term cortisol elevation >is damaging to the body. 90 mgs q day of DHEA was shown to reverse >depression. > >SAMe seems to treat depression well and there are some studies about it >also helps slow arthritis, so the inflammation / self-attack notion >seems to hold up there. If I were prone to depression, I would take it. >Since I have osteoarthritis and a family history of heart attacks, I >take fish oil and flax seed / walnuts, and they seem to help. I am >planning on adding SAMe to keep my knees working until I am 70. > >Ross' idea about two depressions is intriguing, and I would like to >learn more about that. > >Lynn > >_______________________________________________ >paleopsych mailing list >paleopsych at paleopsych.org >http://lists.paleopsych.org/mailman/listinfo/paleopsych >_______________________________________________ >paleopsych mailing list >paleopsych at paleopsych.org >http://lists.paleopsych.org/mailman/listinfo/paleopsych > > > > From ross.buck at uconn.edu Fri Dec 17 15:18:00 2004 From: ross.buck at uconn.edu (Ross Buck) Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 10:18:00 -0500 Subject: [Paleopsych] control In-Reply-To: <20041216203457.47105.qmail@web13421.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200412171518.iBHFID015559@tick.javien.com> Taking control of yourself versus being in control of a situation are two sorts of control that differ in interesting ways. There is a great deal of attention to and research on control over events in the terrestrial environment (Piagetian-style competence, or effectance) and the social environment (social competence). Attribution theory distinguishes whether such events are caused by the self or the environment, and the individual is seen to be "responsible" for events attributed to the self (internal attribution) and not responsible for events attributed to the external environment (external attribution). There is another environment however, that receives less attention: the bodily environment. Feelings and desires (emotions and motives) are associated with bodily responses inextricably associated with the self, but one is not "responsible" for them in the same way as one is responsible for intended actions. Thus one is not "responsible" for being depressed. The same is true for illness: one is not "responsible" for having cancer. Nevertheless, a feeling or sense that one has control over depression or cancer is extremely important in one's ability to cope. There are potential problems here in that encouraging a person to feel in control may incorrectly be taken as implying they are "responsible" for their condition. Ross -----Original Message----- From: paleopsych-bounces at paleopsych.org [mailto:paleopsych-bounces at paleopsych.org] On Behalf Of Michael Christopher Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 3:35 PM To: paleopsych at paleopsych.org Subject: [Paleopsych] control >>Feeling in control is important, but taking control of yourself in a situation is just as important as being in control of the situation.<< --Good point. I think it would be useful to look at social stratification not in terms of financial worth, but in terms of how much control a person is able to feel he has in his everyday life. Those who feel out of control, regardless of their economic situation, are going to have a very different worldview from those who feel they have control. One question: can everyone feel in control, or is it a zero-sum game? Michael __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo _______________________________________________ paleopsych mailing list paleopsych at paleopsych.org http://lists.paleopsych.org/mailman/listinfo/paleopsych From checker at panix.com Fri Dec 17 16:20:19 2004 From: checker at panix.com (Premise Checker) Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 11:20:19 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Paleopsych] inner judges on the rampage In-Reply-To: <01C4E3A1.089A8280.shovland@mindspring.com> References: <01C4E3A1.089A8280.shovland@mindspring.com> Message-ID: I thought Tryptophan was pulled by the FDA a couple of decades ago, just because one batch was contaminated. Is it finally available over the counter again? More Americans have died because of regulatory lag on the part of the FDA than in all our wars! Frank On 2004-12-16, Steve Hovland opined [message unchanged below]: > I do take essential fatty acids on the form of flaxseed oil, > and find it has an immediate calming effect. > > I tried SAMe for awhile. After a few days I was spouting > witticisms non-stop so I gave it up :-) > > My seasonal effects go from depression at the winter solstice > to a somewhat manic state at spring solstice. I've fiddled with > this for a number of years and now I think that in the spring and > summer I will take extra Tryptophan and during fall and winter > go the Phenyl/Tyrosine route. > > Steve Hovland > www.stevehovland.net > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lynn D. Johnson, Ph.D. [SMTP:ljohnson at solution-consulting.com] > Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 7:09 AM > To: The new improved paleopsych list > Subject: Re: [Paleopsych] inner judges on the rampage > > Howard, > Your comment reminded me of the studies suggesting that the hippocampus > atrophies secondary to long depression. Thus the depressed person cannot > recall good experiences and is unable to make decisions. Psychotherapy > or anti-depressants will prevent that atrophy. > > Also, there is substantial evidence that fish oil, likely the EPA in > fish oil, is a preventative of depression. Population studies (Iceland, > Japan) show very low levels of depression among those who eat fish. The > EPA seems to prevent inflammation, so clearly the body is attacking > itself during depression. > > DHEA is converted by the body from pregnenalone, but so is cortisol. > Parasympathetic arousal produces DHEA, while sympathetic arousal > produces cortisol. Cortisol is elevated in depressed persons and may be > the agent causing the hippocampus artophy. Long-term cortisol elevation > is damaging to the body. 90 mgs q day of DHEA was shown to reverse > depression. > > SAMe seems to treat depression well and there are some studies about it > also helps slow arthritis, so the inflammation / self-attack notion > seems to hold up there. If I were prone to depression, I would take it. > Since I have osteoarthritis and a family history of heart attacks, I > take fish oil and flax seed / walnuts, and they seem to help. I am > planning on adding SAMe to keep my knees working until I am 70. > > Ross' idea about two depressions is intriguing, and I would like to > learn more about that. > > Lynn From anonymous_animus at yahoo.com Fri Dec 17 19:36:31 2004 From: anonymous_animus at yahoo.com (Michael Christopher) Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 11:36:31 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Paleopsych] attribution theory In-Reply-To: <200412171900.iBHJ0H023077@tick.javien.com> Message-ID: <20041217193631.33382.qmail@web13424.mail.yahoo.com> >>Attribution theory distinguishes whether such events are caused by the self or the environment, and the individual is seen to be "responsible" for events attributed to the self (internal attribution) and not responsible for events attributed to the external environment (external attribution).<< --What would one call a theory dealing with the boundary between self and world, and how that boundary can become slippery, fuzzy or subsumed into a wholeness? Also interesting are the neurological mapping experiments which show conscious 'willing' happens after unconscious processing, i.e. we don't make decisions, we explain them, to ourselves and others, after something beneath awareness has made the decision for us. We find ourselves, rather than determining ourselves. What factors determine whether an individual becomes self-directing or develops some confusion or entanglement between self and other? Michael __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? All your favorites on one personal page ? Try My Yahoo! http://my.yahoo.com From shovland at mindspring.com Sat Dec 18 02:22:49 2004 From: shovland at mindspring.com (Steve Hovland) Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 18:22:49 -0800 Subject: [Paleopsych] inner judges on the rampage Message-ID: <01C4E465.6A585460.shovland@mindspring.com> It's back in health food stores, but rather expensive. Steve Hovland www.stevehovland.net -----Original Message----- From: Premise Checker [SMTP:checker at panix.com] Sent: Friday, December 17, 2004 8:20 AM To: The new improved paleopsych list Subject: RE: [Paleopsych] inner judges on the rampage I thought Tryptophan was pulled by the FDA a couple of decades ago, just because one batch was contaminated. Is it finally available over the counter again? More Americans have died because of regulatory lag on the part of the FDA than in all our wars! Frank On 2004-12-16, Steve Hovland opined [message unchanged below]: > I do take essential fatty acids on the form of flaxseed oil, > and find it has an immediate calming effect. > > I tried SAMe for awhile. After a few days I was spouting > witticisms non-stop so I gave it up :-) > > My seasonal effects go from depression at the winter solstice > to a somewhat manic state at spring solstice. I've fiddled with > this for a number of years and now I think that in the spring and > summer I will take extra Tryptophan and during fall and winter > go the Phenyl/Tyrosine route. > > Steve Hovland > www.stevehovland.net > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lynn D. Johnson, Ph.D. [SMTP:ljohnson at solution-consulting.com] > Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 7:09 AM > To: The new improved paleopsych list > Subject: Re: [Paleopsych] inner judges on the rampage > > Howard, > Your comment reminded me of the studies suggesting that the hippocampus > atrophies secondary to long depression. Thus the depressed person cannot > recall good experiences and is unable to make decisions. Psychotherapy > or anti-depressants will prevent that atrophy. > > Also, there is substantial evidence that fish oil, likely the EPA in > fish oil, is a preventative of depression. Population studies (Iceland, > Japan) show very low levels of depression among those who eat fish. The > EPA seems to prevent inflammation, so clearly the body is attacking > itself during depression. > > DHEA is converted by the body from pregnenalone, but so is cortisol. > Parasympathetic arousal produces DHEA, while sympathetic arousal > produces cortisol. Cortisol is elevated in depressed persons and may be > the agent causing the hippocampus artophy. Long-term cortisol elevation > is damaging to the body. 90 mgs q day of DHEA was shown to reverse > depression. > > SAMe seems to treat depression well and there are some studies about it > also helps slow arthritis, so the inflammation / self-attack notion > seems to hold up there. If I were prone to depression, I would take it. > Since I have osteoarthritis and a family history of heart attacks, I > take fish oil and flax seed / walnuts, and they seem to help. I am > planning on adding SAMe to keep my knees working until I am 70. > > Ross' idea about two depressions is intriguing, and I would like to > learn more about that. > > Lynn _______________________________________________ paleopsych mailing list paleopsych at paleopsych.org http://lists.paleopsych.org/mailman/listinfo/paleopsych From shovland at mindspring.com Sat Dec 25 16:59:37 2004 From: shovland at mindspring.com (Steve Hovland) Date: Sat, 25 Dec 2004 08:59:37 -0800 Subject: [Paleopsych] A well-known liberal :-) Message-ID: <01C4EA60.109A1570.shovland@mindspring.com> Steve Hovland www.stevehovland.net -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 37928 bytes Desc: not available URL: From shovland at mindspring.com Sun Dec 26 14:22:49 2004 From: shovland at mindspring.com (Steve Hovland) Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 06:22:49 -0800 Subject: [Paleopsych] A well-known conservative Message-ID: <01C4EB13.530B9330.shovland@mindspring.com> Steve Hovland www.stevehovland.net -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 31602 bytes Desc: not available URL: From guavaberry at earthlink.net Sun Dec 26 15:44:01 2004 From: guavaberry at earthlink.net (K.E.) Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 10:44:01 -0500 Subject: [Paleopsych] The Hookie Awards Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20041226104337.01bfcec0@mail.earthlink.net> OP-ED COLUMNIST The Hookie Awards By DAVID BROOKS December 25, 2004 Some people say that the age of the public intellectuals is over, that there are no longer many grand thinkers like Lionel Trilling or Reinhold Niebuhr, writing ambitious essays for the educated reader. It's true that there are fewer philosophes writing about the nature and destiny of man, but there are still hundreds of amazing essays written every year. In celebration of that fact, and in case you're looking for some mind-expanding holiday reading, I've decided to create the Hookie Awards. Named after the great public intellectual Sidney Hook, they go to the authors of some of the most important essays written in 2004. I should mention that essays for The New York Times and other newspapers are not eligible for these prizes, and that if you go to the Web site version of this column, at www.nytimes.com, you will find links to the winning essays. Here is the first batch of Hookie Laureates: ... <>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>~~~~~<> The Educational CyberPlayGround http://www.edu-cyberpg.com/ National Children's Folksong Repository http://www.edu-cyberpg.com/Culdesac/Repository/NCFR.html Hot List of Schools Online and Net Happenings, K12 Newsletters, Network Newsletters http://www.edu-cyberpg.com/Community/index.html 7 Hot Site Awards New York Times, USA Today , MSNBC, Earthlink, USA Today Best Bets For Educators, Macworld Top Fifty <>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>~~~~~<> From ljohnson at solution-consulting.com Sun Dec 26 21:26:26 2004 From: ljohnson at solution-consulting.com (Lynn D. Johnson, Ph.D.) Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 14:26:26 -0700 Subject: [Paleopsych] A well-known conservative In-Reply-To: <01C4EB13.530B9330.shovland@mindspring.com> References: <01C4EB13.530B9330.shovland@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <41CF2C82.90507@solution-consulting.com> Leni, Good work. s/s Adoph Steve Hovland wrote: > > >Steve Hovland >www.stevehovland.net > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >paleopsych mailing list >paleopsych at paleopsych.org >http://lists.paleopsych.org/mailman/listinfo/paleopsych > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 31602 bytes Desc: not available URL: From shovland at mindspring.com Sun Dec 26 22:23:15 2004 From: shovland at mindspring.com (Steve Hovland) Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 14:23:15 -0800 Subject: [Paleopsych] A well-known conservative Message-ID: <01C4EB56.70B8CA90.shovland@mindspring.com> Subtle but not missed :-) Steve Hovland www.stevehovland.net -----Original Message----- From: Lynn D. Johnson, Ph.D. [SMTP:ljohnson at solution-consulting.com] Sent: Sunday, December 26, 2004 1:26 PM To: The new improved paleopsych list Subject: Re: [Paleopsych] A well-known conservative Leni, Good work. s/s Adoph Steve Hovland wrote: > > >Steve Hovland >www.stevehovland.net > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >paleopsych mailing list >paleopsych at paleopsych.org >http://lists.paleopsych.org/mailman/listinfo/paleopsych > > << File: ATT00003.html >> << File: ATT00004.jpeg >> << File: ATT00005.txt >> From shovland at mindspring.com Fri Dec 31 06:27:53 2004 From: shovland at mindspring.com (Steve Hovland) Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 22:27:53 -0800 Subject: [Paleopsych] Culture and Cognitive Science Message-ID: <01C4EEBE.CE535060.shovland@mindspring.com> more at: http://lchc.ucsd.edu/People/Localz/MCole/santabar.html Michael Cole Laboratory of Comparative Human Cognition, U.C. San Diego (Talk Presented to the Cognitive Science Program, U.C. Santa Barbara, May 15, 1997) To begin with, I wish to thank my hosts for inviting me to your ongoing series of seminars surveying the field of cognitive science, and to think about the implications of that landscape for the organization of your own activities here at U.C. Santa Barbara. I have been lucky in recent years to be able to carry out collaborative research with colleagues on this campus that I believe relevant to the overall theme of this talk. I'll return a bit later to talk about this research, and its potential relevance for enriching cognitive science. But first, in recognition of the fact that the term "culture" is not likely to be the first thing that comes to mind when you hear the phrase, "cognitive science" I will take a brief excursion back into the origins of cognitive science as a self-identified academic discipline. Perhaps to the surprise of some of you, it turns out that considerations of culture have been present from very early in the discipline's development. I will then review the evolution of some ideas about culture and cognitive science as they have evolved at UCSD and in my own work. Culture and Cognitive Science "In the Beginning" Howard Gardner's "authorized biography" of cognitive science more or less up to a decade ago can serve as a useful point for departure (Gardner, 1985). Gardner begins his account with a series of scientific and technical advances that took place across the 1940's, 50's, and 60's which set the stage for the new discipline. Among these were: the work of mathematicians such as Alan Turing and John von Neuman on computability and the feasibility of constructing computing machines that could work from programs stored in their own memories. The work of Warren McCulloch and Walter Pitts showing that the operation of nerve cells and its connection to other nerve cells (neural networks) could be modeled in terms of logic. Norbert Weiner's work on cybernetics in which he explicitly linked understanding of the human nervous system, electronic computers, and the importance of feedback from the environment. The work of Shannon and Weaver on the development of information theory and George Miller's application of some of these ideas to the study of human memory in information processing terms. Noam Chomsky's formalizations of grammatical competence A growing belief that stimulus-response versions of behaviorism had failed to produce on their promise, presaging the so-called cognitive revolution in psychology. Responding to these and allied events, the Alfred Sloane Foundation sponsored a series of conference bringing in the mid-1970's to explore the wisdom of providing support for a new, academic enterprise that synthesized these varied, and already interacting trends. The Foundation did indeed provide startup funding for some large programs in Cognitive Science, in effect launching the new discipline. In the story as told by Gardner, the Foundation commissioned a "state of the art report" that summarized the ideas coming out of its series of conferences. The report declared the emergence of the field of cognitive science, explaining this new field in the following terms: What has brought the field into existence is a common research objective: to discover the representational and computational capacities of the mind and their structural and functional representation in the brain. (P. 36). The report's authors represented the set of disciplines that had merged around this common objective as a "cognitive Hexagon." and attempted, through the use of dotted and solid lines to indicate the relationship among the constitutive disciplines (See Figure 1): Philosophy, Linguistics, Neuroscience, Artificial Intelligence, Psychology, and Anthropology. From paul.werbos at verizon.net Fri Dec 31 15:17:04 2004 From: paul.werbos at verizon.net (Paul J. Werbos, Dr.) Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 10:17:04 -0500 Subject: [Paleopsych] being in touch with reality In-Reply-To: <01C4EEBE.CE535060.shovland@mindspring.com> References: <01C4EEBE.CE535060.shovland@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.0.20041231093548.01d6b110@incoming.verizon.net> Many people say that at the end of the year it is a good idea to try to take stock of where we are... to appreciate and relive what has been accomplished... and to appreciate the gap between where we are going now and where we would want to be that we could potentially be... For the discussion here, there are many many threads... but ... if I were to try to summarize where the greatest unmet potential lies... well, it seems to me that it has something to do with getting more in touch with reality. I hate to use such a simple, easily-abused phrase like "how do we get back in touch with reality?" But that's my initial feeling about an underlying problem here... If there is an official purpose to the list, I think it has to do with dialogue to investigate the human mind and what we know about it. But for myself, I find it impossible to separate thinking about the mind from thinking about the soul and thinking about the waves and wave of threats to our collective survival. (I can segregate that a little from thinking about quantum mechanics, for which I know no really satisfactory list.) Premise Checker recently said something... that sounded to me like "I have learned all that can possibly be extracted from Western stuff, so I would like to read nonWestern fiction to learn their viewpoints." Sure, what was meant was more than that, and I apologize. But it leaves me with... a feeling of a kind of hopelessness here. Deeper understanding of nonWestern viewpoints of the mind and of life will indeed be essential both to our understanding and to our survival. Deep dialogue between world cultures is one of the main hopes of our pulling through the really scary challenges ahead. But do we all go out and read the dreams of the Red Chamber? Fiction is not the same thing in nonWestern cultures. And understanding Spanish conquistadores (who do have novels) is not the same thing as learning about nonWestern cultures. I do remember decades ago trying to learn something real from reading stuff like the Tale of Genji. Never got very far. Wondered why. Later had a number of close friends from China (and Japan), from many of the main streams of culture there. I still remember mentioning my teenage attempts... and the laughter it generated. "Would you try to understand Western culture by reading bathroom romances? What could someone end up thinking? It is so funny...." It reminds me of a science fiction story I read long ago about archeologists, trying to understand the culture of the lost species of earth after a great freeze, digging up a particular Mickey Mouse movie... For China, one person recommended I read "My Country, My People" as a start. (The author was not Li Quan Yu, but for some reason... Lin ...? I can't easily dig it up in memory. It says little that a properly educated Chinese person would not already know, often better, but it does describe vividly how weird Westerners do in fact manage to grossly misconstrue things to an extreme extent. How we are full of great experts who cannot see the nose in front of their face. And in fact... just a few days ago the Financial Times gave a report by an English expert on the Middle East, touring the present state of Middle Eastern studies in the US... and being utterly appalled. If no one knows anything, how can we possibly expect NOT to be making gross errors, regularly? A quick summary would be that the dishonest political football game has interfered with serious understanding and learning and adapting to new information (let alone seeking it out effectively)... And, yes, I know some important islands which are exceptions, but they are much embattled and have many issues bordering them around... Can cognitive science help? Certainly not if it is purely cognitive and not affective. Not if it ignores the basic realities of life, to the point where it cannot make sense of the simplest basic realities observed by Freud and by Jung (and yea even Karen Horney) -- while preserving a sense of positive motivation and intelligence ala Von Neumann. Not if it is "reductionist" -- where I refer not to the metaphysical objections of full-time tepid deconstructivists, but rather to the old idea of narrow specialists (including specialists like bean-counters and narrow lawyers who pretend to be generalists "by the very nature of my profession"). One of the basic realities of life is unchecked growth of population. Yes, there is no certain doom from overpopulation -- but if we pretend it is irrelevant that millions upon millions of people are growing up in areas where half the population is young and uneducated, and that food and water and simple living space are major issues... well... that's like planning your family budget on the assumption that you can just use your credit card and never have to pay off your debts. If we all commit ourselves to nonsustainable policies worldwide, and fight to the death to maintain them... the death we will have. And that is indeed a problem for psychology, one that can never be solved with patented purple pills. (OK, I can hear someone who would like to feed the pills of his/her choice to Osama AND Bush... that gets into qui custodet custodes and so on.) There IS important enlightening fiction, yes. Just read The Ethos Effect by Modesitt. It is scary just how real it is. Modesitt, like Orson Scott Card, is a highly insightful Mormon writer... but I suspect that the Mormon Church is not quite so supportive of him as of Card. But his new book (and what led up to it) is well worth thinking had about, on more levels than one. (And reminds me in some ways of recent stuff by Vinge.) The theme, in a way, is psychohistory... and with Bear on the list... the new and old foundation trilogies are of course also worth thinking about. All of these particular books have some value in stimulating thought about the question "Is there any hope at all for us humans to survive? If so, in what does it lie?" My old thesis adviser, Karl Deustch, in his famous (to poli sci) book Natoinalism and Social Communications, depicted hopes for peace as a kind of race. I think that's not a bad VERY crude starting point. (Ironically, he would say the theme of my Harvard PhD thesis -- out in 1994 from Wiley with a new title, "Roots..." -- was a refinement of his image in that book. But a much larger reconstruction is needed to address the larger issue of human survival.) It still is a kind of race, but between many more variables at many more levels. But abandoning firm and rigid commitments to nonsustainable lifestyles, while also not turning humans into robots (trying to repress the irrepressible soul, trying to tie it up like the feet of pampered ancient Chinese women)... those are among the most obvious elements of the race. If we move too slowly on these variables, we may be well and truly dead, on earth as it is in heaven, as they say. Best of luck to us all... Paul From shovland at mindspring.com Fri Dec 31 16:39:35 2004 From: shovland at mindspring.com (Steve Hovland) Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 08:39:35 -0800 Subject: [Paleopsych] being in touch with reality Message-ID: <01C4EF14.42AA06C0.shovland@mindspring.com> Can the whole human population presently on the planet survive? Probably not. I am afraid that our collective choice not to limit births to sustainable levels has condemned us to population control by catastrophes of war, famine, and disease. This Biblical Flood in Asia may be only a preview of coming attractions. It certainly gives us some insight into the universality of flood stories in world mythology. I have heard there is a structure off the west coast of Africa that could cause similar devastation on the eastern shores of the Americas. I also seem to recall that about 80% of humanity lives within 20 miles of the sea. Is there anyone in this crowd who knows about plate tectonics? Has this episode in Asia increased the stresses in other parts of the system? Can a remnant survive? Probably. Perhaps a large remnant, and hopefully one that is not reduced to living in caves and banging rocks together to make fire :-) "Getting in touch with reality" implies a shift of consciousness. If you've done psychotherapy you know that it involves paying conscious attention to things that you'd rather not think about, in order to reduce their influence on your life. Can we do this on a mass basis? I wish I could say I think so, but it takes a lot of courage to look into your inner darkness. I suspect any therapist will tell you that a lot of people quit therapy when they get too close to really productive areas. We are left with looking for ways to operate on the mass mind, both conscious and unconscious. My own attempts to do this are in the direction of highly compressed communication pieces. "A well known liberal" and "The Zeitgeist Speaks" are examples of this. My reading of cognitive science is an attempt to find insights that can be used to construct a new generation of progressive propaganda. This would help us insert good new ideas into the mass mind and also to reduce the influence of "death wish" ideas. Lately I have come to think that we are indeed engaged in a War of Armageddon. But it is not the war imagined by religious fundamentalists, whether Islamic or Christian. To me it is a war between the Empaths and the Reptilians, and lately the Reptilians have been doing well against the much larger but disarrayed army of Empaths. On the other hand, the Reptilians have a smaller repertoire of appeals- Fear, Anger, Hunger, and Lust. We Empaths can reach down and use all of those, but we can also reach up and use Love and Hope to drive our messages home. Steve Hovland www.stevehovland.net -----Original Message----- From: Paul J. Werbos, Dr. [SMTP:paul.werbos at verizon.net] Sent: Friday, December 31, 2004 7:17 AM To: The new improved paleopsych list; paleopsych at paleopsych. org (E-mail) Subject: [Paleopsych] being in touch with reality Many people say that at the end of the year it is a good idea to try to take stock of where we are... to appreciate and relive what has been accomplished... and to appreciate the gap between where we are going now and where we would want to be that we could potentially be... For the discussion here, there are many many threads... but ... if I were to try to summarize where the greatest unmet potential lies... well, it seems to me that it has something to do with getting more in touch with reality. I hate to use such a simple, easily-abused phrase like "how do we get back in touch with reality?" But that's my initial feeling about an underlying problem here... If there is an official purpose to the list, I think it has to do with dialogue to investigate the human mind and what we know about it. But for myself, I find it impossible to separate thinking about the mind from thinking about the soul and thinking about the waves and wave of threats to our collective survival. (I can segregate that a little from thinking about quantum mechanics, for which I know no really satisfactory list.) Premise Checker recently said something... that sounded to me like "I have learned all that can possibly be extracted from Western stuff, so I would like to read nonWestern fiction to learn their viewpoints." Sure, what was meant was more than that, and I apologize. But it leaves me with... a feeling of a kind of hopelessness here. Deeper understanding of nonWestern viewpoints of the mind and of life will indeed be essential both to our understanding and to our survival. Deep dialogue between world cultures is one of the main hopes of our pulling through the really scary challenges ahead. But do we all go out and read the dreams of the Red Chamber? Fiction is not the same thing in nonWestern cultures. And understanding Spanish conquistadores (who do have novels) is not the same thing as learning about nonWestern cultures. I do remember decades ago trying to learn something real from reading stuff like the Tale of Genji. Never got very far. Wondered why. Later had a number of close friends from China (and Japan), from many of the main streams of culture there. I still remember mentioning my teenage attempts... and the laughter it generated. "Would you try to understand Western culture by reading bathroom romances? What could someone end up thinking? It is so funny...." It reminds me of a science fiction story I read long ago about archeologists, trying to understand the culture of the lost species of earth after a great freeze, digging up a particular Mickey Mouse movie... For China, one person recommended I read "My Country, My People" as a start. (The author was not Li Quan Yu, but for some reason... Lin ...? I can't easily dig it up in memory. It says little that a properly educated Chinese person would not already know, often better, but it does describe vividly how weird Westerners do in fact manage to grossly misconstrue things to an extreme extent. How we are full of great experts who cannot see the nose in front of their face. And in fact... just a few days ago the Financial Times gave a report by an English expert on the Middle East, touring the present state of Middle Eastern studies in the US... and being utterly appalled. If no one knows anything, how can we possibly expect NOT to be making gross errors, regularly? A quick summary would be that the dishonest political football game has interfered with serious understanding and learning and adapting to new information (let alone seeking it out effectively)... And, yes, I know some important islands which are exceptions, but they are much embattled and have many issues bordering them around... Can cognitive science help? Certainly not if it is purely cognitive and not affective. Not if it ignores the basic realities of life, to the point where it cannot make sense of the simplest basic realities observed by Freud and by Jung (and yea even Karen Horney) -- while preserving a sense of positive motivation and intelligence ala Von Neumann. Not if it is "reductionist" -- where I refer not to the metaphysical objections of full-time tepid deconstructivists, but rather to the old idea of narrow specialists (including specialists like bean-counters and narrow lawyers who pretend to be generalists "by the very nature of my profession"). One of the basic realities of life is unchecked growth of population. Yes, there is no certain doom from overpopulation -- but if we pretend it is irrelevant that millions upon millions of people are growing up in areas where half the population is young and uneducated, and that food and water and simple living space are major issues... well... that's like planning your family budget on the assumption that you can just use your credit card and never have to pay off your debts. If we all commit ourselves to nonsustainable policies worldwide, and fight to the death to maintain them... the death we will have. And that is indeed a problem for psychology, one that can never be solved with patented purple pills. (OK, I can hear someone who would like to feed the pills of his/her choice to Osama AND Bush... that gets into qui custodet custodes and so on.) There IS important enlightening fiction, yes. Just read The Ethos Effect by Modesitt. It is scary just how real it is. Modesitt, like Orson Scott Card, is a highly insightful Mormon writer... but I suspect that the Mormon Church is not quite so supportive of him as of Card. But his new book (and what led up to it) is well worth thinking had about, on more levels than one. (And reminds me in some ways of recent stuff by Vinge.) The theme, in a way, is psychohistory... and with Bear on the list... the new and old foundation trilogies are of course also worth thinking about. All of these particular books have some value in stimulating thought about the question "Is there any hope at all for us humans to survive? If so, in what does it lie?" My old thesis adviser, Karl Deustch, in his famous (to poli sci) book Natoinalism and Social Communications, depicted hopes for peace as a kind of race. I think that's not a bad VERY crude starting point. (Ironically, he would say the theme of my Harvard PhD thesis -- out in 1994 from Wiley with a new title, "Roots..." -- was a refinement of his image in that book. But a much larger reconstruction is needed to address the larger issue of human survival.) It still is a kind of race, but between many more variables at many more levels. But abandoning firm and rigid commitments to nonsustainable lifestyles, while also not turning humans into robots (trying to repress the irrepressible soul, trying to tie it up like the feet of pampered ancient Chinese women)... those are among the most obvious elements of the race. If we move too slowly on these variables, we may be well and truly dead, on earth as it is in heaven, as they say. Best of luck to us all... Paul _______________________________________________ paleopsych mailing list paleopsych at paleopsych.org http://lists.paleopsych.org/mailman/listinfo/paleopsych From paul.werbos at verizon.net Fri Dec 31 17:13:35 2004 From: paul.werbos at verizon.net (Paul J. Werbos, Dr.) Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 12:13:35 -0500 Subject: [Paleopsych] being in touch with reality II -- sustainable lifestyles Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.0.20041231113705.01dfbdc0@incoming.verizon.net> In the end of the last email, I concluded: ------------- But abandoning firm and rigid commitments to nonsustainable lifestyles, while also not turning humans into robots (trying to repress the irrepressible soul, trying to tie it up like the feet of pampered ancient Chinese women)... those are among the most obvious elements of the race. If we move too slowly on these variables, we may be well and truly dead, on earth as it is in heaven, as they say. -------------------- OK -- so what is a "nonsustainable lifestyle"? I am NOT saying we all have to head back to the caves. And I am thinking more of collective sustainability. An example of extreme nonsustainability -- the old slave-based plantations in Haiti. The slaveowners there would fight to the death to "avoid change," to preserve their traditional lifestyle. The slaveowners in the US South would do the same. But in Haiti, they won for a long, long time. In the US, they lost. Or did they? Look at the lives of the great-great grandchildren of those slaveowners. Sometimes winning is losing, and losing is winning. Or, as some of the technical international relations people have said, "It is sometimes challenging to derive a good measure of the true long-term national interest." Sometimes "preserving the status quo" is preserving a CHANGING situation, whose changes may kill the very people who try to preserve them. In fact... a few decades back, US cities were undergoing a very severe demographic shift -- a growth of a kind of welfare culture ... that was every bit as threatening as what destroyed the economy of Haiti. (The racial expression of this is a red herring... an easy way to ignore the more inescapable realities.) A combination of two or three main factors reduced this trend so much that we can try to ignore it (much as safe Victorians and cognitive scientists often tried to ignore sex). One was Roe v. Wade, which empowered poor women to avoid having more children than they could reasonably raise and support. Another was the massive welfare reform under Clinton, which caused a lot of pain, but was executed in the most compassionate way possible, and was essential in order to avoid greater pains. Maybe general improvements in education and health care were also a factor. But we should not forget. Any long-term growth in human population above some nonzero level k would in time be nonsustainable, and force a massive breakdown in the pattern which leads to it. The details of the breakdown mechanisms are complex... but on the whole, if we don't choose a benign and viable mechanism, other mechanisms will appear. In areas like the Middle East, as nuclear technology continues to spread... well, it really ends being a matter of life and death. Positive thinking that ignores the realities... well, haven't we learned by now that the ostrich is not a model to emulate? Or do we need to understand psychology and philosophy better, to remind ourselves that going crazy or committing suicide really aren't what we want to do? (This is one of the roles of psychology, I guess...) So... if continued pop growth>k is nonsustainable... we must ask next what are the main determinants of population growth. Optimistic reports from the UN are NOT one of the determinants. It is true that a greater concentration of lawyers would tend to reduce local fertility :) but this doesn't really reach the poorer parts of the world. The World Bank (Pauline somebody...) pioneered studies of the determinants of fertility which have stood the test of time, identifying two main factors -- women's education/empowerment, and full access to health care (yea even unto reproductive choices). The bottom line: those cultures which would block those two factors are nonsustainable. They are like the Haitian slave-owning cultures. No, I do not endorse the opposite extreme, of effeminizing cultures that want to weaken males and repress our natural energy... but we need to face up to reality here. No culture -- no fundamentalist culture, east or west, Christian or Moslem, Jew or Hindu -- which interferes with these variables is sustainable. Such cultures may at times grow, like cancer -- but, like cancer, if unchecked, they lead to the death of the entire body, cancerous and noncancerous. We need to appreciate this. (And, yes, on balance, I agree that there are spiritual aspects to the nonsustainability of such cultures as well, but the mundane numbers are enough by themselves...) But... there is a lot we can do, and still be sustainable. We can still hope to grow economically in a way that substantially increases energy use per capita in the long-term. **IF** we take the trouble to develop truly renewable energy sources (of which ground-based "solar farms" and new designs for space solar power are the most definite options), it is clear that we CAN multiply per capita energy use by a huge amount, safely, if the number of "capita" doesn't go astronomical. And so we could supply the entire world with HDTVs, if they wanted them, and so on and so on. And yes, we can reach out beyond the earth. And we don't have to become human robots to do it. Modesitt's book the Ethos Effect is uncanny in its degree of match to some aspects of reality (even as obviously fictionalizing others). It portrays a "Revenant" culture (as do earlier book in that series) which has obvious ties to old Mormon or Moslem cultures -- and to the kind of treatment of women that fits the discussion above. But it also portrays a "Taran Republic" which has disturbing parallels to Rome and to certain forces at work in the US. (Though Marion Zimmer Bradley has a book Heartlight which has a more simplistic view of the same forces, simplistic but not entirely to be ignored.) Do **BOTH** archetypical cultures involve a kind of fundamental nonsustainability, like a system of axioms which has accepted a few key premises ultimately guaranteeing a kind of internal contradiction and collective nervous breakdown? The Sharia --- the "fair deal" concocted by the Abbasid emperors -- can easily be diagnosed (and in principle corrected) -- in that spirit. But what about the corruption? The many LEVELS of corruption all around us? Such as willful ideological blinders... such as the new role of PACs and... whatever? And ersatz TV preachers and mullahs, dedicated to their own person sports games without any real respect for the objective truth? I remember a friend studying psychoanalysis who once said :"Actually, those old stereotypical neurotics were much easier to treat. There was hope for them. They had ego-structures and ideas. How do you treat a walking jellyfish?" Whatever... Best of luck to us all in the new year and beyond.. Paul From shovland at mindspring.com Fri Dec 31 18:06:31 2004 From: shovland at mindspring.com (Steve Hovland) Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 10:06:31 -0800 Subject: [Paleopsych] being in touch with reality II -- sustainable lifestyles Message-ID: <01C4EF20.67537090.shovland@mindspring.com> Over the long term, I think sustainability depends on our ability to produce the things we need to sustain life and on our ability to distribute those things. Energy income from the sun and the integrity of the ecosystem which allows food production are key factors. Many of us can readily see that living off the world's energy savings, in the form of petroleum, is not sustainable. Not many of us can see that in a world of money economies we have a serious problem of distribution of life goods. Indeed I would say that the main trend in recent decades has been toward less distribution rather than more. We certainly see this in our own economy, where half of the personal income does to 20% of the population, and where 80% of the population are struggling to maintain their standard of living. For many months our attention has been focused on the Reptilian confrontation in Iraq. Now this disaster in Asia has prompted a large exercise in Empathic values. If the tidal disaster is followed by an equally horrific outbreak of disease, then we may have an example of how this will play out: local disasters which leave most of the world relatively untouched. With my roots in the Midwest, I know that production of crops like corn is very dependent on a certain set of growing conditions. Those growing conditions seem to be changing, and so the risk of crop failure may be increasing. There is a real possibility that one day the need to feed ourselves will lead to a famine in some other part of the world. Our hearts will ache but our hands will do what is necessary for our own survival. Steve Hovland www.stevehovland.net -----Original Message----- From: Paul J. Werbos, Dr. [SMTP:paul.werbos at verizon.net] Sent: Friday, December 31, 2004 9:14 AM To: The new improved paleopsych list; paleopsych at paleopsych. org (E-mail) Subject: [Paleopsych] being in touch with reality II -- sustainable lifestyles In the end of the last email, I concluded: ------------- But abandoning firm and rigid commitments to nonsustainable lifestyles, while also not turning humans into robots (trying to repress the irrepressible soul, trying to tie it up like the feet of pampered ancient Chinese women)... those are among the most obvious elements of the race. If we move too slowly on these variables, we may be well and truly dead, on earth as it is in heaven, as they say. -------------------- OK -- so what is a "nonsustainable lifestyle"? I am NOT saying we all have to head back to the caves. And I am thinking more of collective sustainability. An example of extreme nonsustainability -- the old slave-based plantations in Haiti. The slaveowners there would fight to the death to "avoid change," to preserve their traditional lifestyle. The slaveowners in the US South would do the same. But in Haiti, they won for a long, long time. In the US, they lost. Or did they? Look at the lives of the great-great grandchildren of those slaveowners. Sometimes winning is losing, and losing is winning. Or, as some of the technical international relations people have said, "It is sometimes challenging to derive a good measure of the true long-term national interest." Sometimes "preserving the status quo" is preserving a CHANGING situation, whose changes may kill the very people who try to preserve them. In fact... a few decades back, US cities were undergoing a very severe demographic shift -- a growth of a kind of welfare culture ... that was every bit as threatening as what destroyed the economy of Haiti. (The racial expression of this is a red herring... an easy way to ignore the more inescapable realities.) A combination of two or three main factors reduced this trend so much that we can try to ignore it (much as safe Victorians and cognitive scientists often tried to ignore sex). One was Roe v. Wade, which empowered poor women to avoid having more children than they could reasonably raise and support. Another was the massive welfare reform under Clinton, which caused a lot of pain, but was executed in the most compassionate way possible, and was essential in order to avoid greater pains. Maybe general improvements in education and health care were also a factor. But we should not forget. Any long-term growth in human population above some nonzero level k would in time be nonsustainable, and force a massive breakdown in the pattern which leads to it. The details of the breakdown mechanisms are complex... but on the whole, if we don't choose a benign and viable mechanism, other mechanisms will appear. In areas like the Middle East, as nuclear technology continues to spread... well, it really ends being a matter of life and death. Positive thinking that ignores the realities... well, haven't we learned by now that the ostrich is not a model to emulate? Or do we need to understand psychology and philosophy better, to remind ourselves that going crazy or committing suicide really aren't what we want to do? (This is one of the roles of psychology, I guess...) So... if continued pop growth>k is nonsustainable... we must ask next what are the main determinants of population growth. Optimistic reports from the UN are NOT one of the determinants. It is true that a greater concentration of lawyers would tend to reduce local fertility :) but this doesn't really reach the poorer parts of the world. The World Bank (Pauline somebody...) pioneered studies of the determinants of fertility which have stood the test of time, identifying two main factors -- women's education/empowerment, and full access to health care (yea even unto reproductive choices). The bottom line: those cultures which would block those two factors are nonsustainable. They are like the Haitian slave-owning cultures. No, I do not endorse the opposite extreme, of effeminizing cultures that want to weaken males and repress our natural energy... but we need to face up to reality here. No culture -- no fundamentalist culture, east or west, Christian or Moslem, Jew or Hindu -- which interferes with these variables is sustainable. Such cultures may at times grow, like cancer -- but, like cancer, if unchecked, they lead to the death of the entire body, cancerous and noncancerous. We need to appreciate this. (And, yes, on balance, I agree that there are spiritual aspects to the nonsustainability of such cultures as well, but the mundane numbers are enough by themselves...) But... there is a lot we can do, and still be sustainable. We can still hope to grow economically in a way that substantially increases energy use per capita in the long-term. **IF** we take the trouble to develop truly renewable energy sources (of which ground-based "solar farms" and new designs for space solar power are the most definite options), it is clear that we CAN multiply per capita energy use by a huge amount, safely, if the number of "capita" doesn't go astronomical. And so we could supply the entire world with HDTVs, if they wanted them, and so on and so on. And yes, we can reach out beyond the earth. And we don't have to become human robots to do it. Modesitt's book the Ethos Effect is uncanny in its degree of match to some aspects of reality (even as obviously fictionalizing others). It portrays a "Revenant" culture (as do earlier book in that series) which has obvious ties to old Mormon or Moslem cultures -- and to the kind of treatment of women that fits the discussion above. But it also portrays a "Taran Republic" which has disturbing parallels to Rome and to certain forces at work in the US. (Though Marion Zimmer Bradley has a book Heartlight which has a more simplistic view of the same forces, simplistic but not entirely to be ignored.) Do **BOTH** archetypical cultures involve a kind of fundamental nonsustainability, like a system of axioms which has accepted a few key premises ultimately guaranteeing a kind of internal contradiction and collective nervous breakdown? The Sharia --- the "fair deal" concocted by the Abbasid emperors -- can easily be diagnosed (and in principle corrected) -- in that spirit. But what about the corruption? The many LEVELS of corruption all around us? Such as willful ideological blinders... such as the new role of PACs and... whatever? And ersatz TV preachers and mullahs, dedicated to their own person sports games without any real respect for the objective truth? I remember a friend studying psychoanalysis who once said :"Actually, those old stereotypical neurotics were much easier to treat. There was hope for them. They had ego-structures and ideas. How do you treat a walking jellyfish?" Whatever... Best of luck to us all in the new year and beyond.. Paul _______________________________________________ paleopsych mailing list paleopsych at paleopsych.org http://lists.paleopsych.org/mailman/listinfo/paleopsych From anonymous_animus at yahoo.com Fri Dec 31 19:42:15 2004 From: anonymous_animus at yahoo.com (Michael Christopher) Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 11:42:15 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Paleopsych] making gross errors In-Reply-To: <200412311900.iBVJ0R014517@tick.javien.com> Message-ID: <20041231194215.99613.qmail@web13424.mail.yahoo.com> >>If no one knows anything, how can we possibly expect NOT to be making gross errors, regularly?<< --Good question. And most of us don't have direct contact with the problems we discuss, so we HAVE to rely to a large degree on second and third hand information. Which introduces the element of bias, especially at times when large groups are becoming more and more polarized, convinced the other is evil as opposed to merely operating out of a different set of axioms about human nature. And axioms about human nature are notoriously difficult to change, since they tend to grow out of one's personal sense of identity more than out of observation of a large number of specific instances of human behavior. At times, the study of human beings is actively discouraged (or dismissed as "psychobabble" or "academic elitism") in favor of folk theories about what human beings are and what behavior means. We could all do with a dose of humility. I suspect neither side in a polarity has the full view, and the more each reacts against the other, the less I trust either side to give me an accurate picture of the world. It is simply assumed that doing the opposite of what the other side does will lead to success, and that is by no means clear, especially when each side stereotypes the other and misreads its motives. Michael __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Send a seasonal email greeting and help others. Do good. http://celebrity.mail.yahoo.com From shovland at mindspring.com Fri Dec 31 21:08:24 2004 From: shovland at mindspring.com (Steve Hovland) Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 13:08:24 -0800 Subject: [Paleopsych] making gross errors Message-ID: <01C4EF39.D0126FA0.shovland@mindspring.com> In addition to the competing stereotypes of the left and right, there is also a body of neutral knowledge that describes how the human psyche actually works, and that I think is where we will find the levers we need to shift the mass mind. We've all seen the red and blue maps, and some of us have seen the shades-of-purple maps that more accurately portray the reality of our political landscape. The shift to the right is not nearly as large or permanent as some talking heads would have us believe. No matter what is eventually found in terms of voting fraud and computer hacking, the margin of victory in November was only 3%, and I firmly believe that a combination of events and effort can shift that balance enough to produce a different outcome. Steve Hovland www.stevehovland.net -----Original Message----- From: Michael Christopher [SMTP:anonymous_animus at yahoo.com] Sent: Friday, December 31, 2004 11:42 AM To: paleopsych at paleopsych.org Subject: [Paleopsych] making gross errors >>If no one knows anything, how can we possibly expect NOT to be making gross errors, regularly?<< --Good question. And most of us don't have direct contact with the problems we discuss, so we HAVE to rely to a large degree on second and third hand information. Which introduces the element of bias, especially at times when large groups are becoming more and more polarized, convinced the other is evil as opposed to merely operating out of a different set of axioms about human nature. And axioms about human nature are notoriously difficult to change, since they tend to grow out of one's personal sense of identity more than out of observation of a large number of specific instances of human behavior. At times, the study of human beings is actively discouraged (or dismissed as "psychobabble" or "academic elitism") in favor of folk theories about what human beings are and what behavior means. We could all do with a dose of humility. I suspect neither side in a polarity has the full view, and the more each reacts against the other, the less I trust either side to give me an accurate picture of the world. It is simply assumed that doing the opposite of what the other side does will lead to success, and that is by no means clear, especially when each side stereotypes the other and misreads its motives. Michael __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Send a seasonal email greeting and help others. Do good. http://celebrity.mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ paleopsych mailing list paleopsych at paleopsych.org http://lists.paleopsych.org/mailman/listinfo/paleopsych