[Paleopsych] Joel

Wed Jul 28 10:47:21 UTC 2004

Heritability of IQ in western countries and other affluent countries 
like Japan is 60% for young adults (45% for 12-yr olds; 80% for 60 yr 
olds). The remaining 40% is non-shared environment - i.e. NOT the things 
siblings have in common like parenting methods, neighbourhood, primary 
school etc. Home environment is certainly not "the primary place for 
nurturing high IQs" - and by the way the HOME has a high heritability 
(genes of parents influence the way they treat offspring; genes of 
offspring  - their talents - influence the way they shape their 
environment).  There has not yet been found a method of education that 
raises IQ.  "Woefully inadequate" education leads to pupils not reaching 
the scholastic achievements (and ultimately not the SES) that could have 
been expected on the basis of their IQs - it doesn't lower their IQs.

I don't know about studies of heritability of IQ in islamic countries. 
One might expect that in a country with environmental deprivation and 
very unequal opportunities heritability is lower.

According to data of Lynn & Vanhanen IQ in Iraq is 87 (measured in 1968 
at IQ 85; corrected for time lapse); they have not found anything on 
Saudi Arabia.

As for the "irrelevance" of average national intelligence: there are 
indeed more geniuses in Iraq than in Iceland. However, if you haven't 
got a meritocracy and there are lots of dimwits, the geniuses go 
unnoticed or are treated as oddballs (and perhaps become marginalized, 
lethargic or very frustrated and angry). In Iceland the geniuses are in 
science or play chess. What are the Iraqi geniuses doing at the moment?

Marcel

Lynn D. Johnson, Ph.D. wrote:

> I didn't understand Joel's reaction here. Actually, I am not sure that 
> Frank is too far off base, but I think the observation is irrelevant. 
> Here is why: approximately 50% of IQ is inherited, and it appears that 
> all human varieties (races) have around the same inherited portion. 
> The other 50% comes from environment; it appears to me that the Arab / 
> Islamic environments are quite impoverished. Their education seems 
> woefully inadquate, and the home environment (primary place for 
> nurturing high IQs) seems to be not be so hot. So an average of 90 
> would seem reasonable.
>
> But it is irrelevant because of the K / r reporductive strategies. If 
> we assumed the Islamic version is primarily r, then as Val says, they 
> are cannon fodder. Yet in every population there is a distribution. 
> there are outliers in the cannon fodder, the occasional brilliant one.
>
> The average IQ is 100 (by definition, we keep moving the goalposts to 
> keep it that way) and the SD is 15. If a region has an average of 90, 
> it is likely some other region (the east side of Salt Lake City above 
> 1300 east, for example, or Jewish neighborhoods, or Asian 
> neighborhoods, where education is highly valued) has one of 110. It 
> has to balance out.
>
> So proportionally, there are fewer >130 (superior) or >145 (genius 
> level) in the islamic group (further out from the mean, so fewer 
> examples) but because of the r reproductive strategy, you have a 
> larger group. Within that population, there will still be the 145 
> point IQ examples. They can surely produce some wicked viruses. That 
> is why the average is irrelevant. Because there are always outliers, 
> and the greater the population, the more outliers, in absolute terms.
>
> >From what I understand, Iraq pre-Saddam was an enclave of smarties, 
> people who went to good universities and graduated in engineering and 
> science. Perhaps Saudi Arabia would be the mirror image, an 
> excessively religious society that de-emphasized secular learning. So 
> we might argue that Arab countries might have an average IQ of 90, but 
> Iraq would have been an exception. Saddam's blood thirsty appetite for 
> killing the best and brightest would keep education from being valued, 
> so the national IQ would naturally fall.
> Respectfully submitted,
> Lynn Johnson
> Salt Lake City
>
>
> HowlBloom at aol.com wrote:
>
>> I agree wholeheartedly.  I'm astonished that Frank would say such 
>> things.  He is an extremely intelligent and well-informed man.
>>  
>> If Frank's attitude is indicative of a widespread opinion, this 
>> nation is in serious trouble.  Or let's put it differently.  This 
>> nation IS in grave danger.  There's no doubt about it.  One reason is 
>> the complacency for which Frank momentarily acted as spokesperson.  
>> Howard
>>  
>> In a message dated 7/24/2004 8:18:46 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
>> isaacsonj at hotmail.com writes:
>>
>>     Look, Premise Checker, it is downriight idiotic to pronounce an
>>     "average
>>     IQ of about 90" in Moslem nations.   Where do get your facts?
>>     Also, denigrating the smarts of the adversary is an act of singular
>>     stupidity, sepecially in this case.  Take it back and re-think
>>     the wisdom of your attitudes
>>
>>  
>> ----------
>> Howard Bloom
>> Author of The Lucifer Principle: A Scientific Expedition Into the 
>> Forces of History and Global Brain: The Evolution of Mass Mind From 
>> The Big Bang to the 21st Century
>> Visiting Scholar-Graduate Psychology Department, New York University; 
>> Faculty Member, The Graduate Institute
>> www.howardbloom.net
>> www.bigbangtango.net
>> Founder: International Paleopsychology Project; founding board 
>> member: Epic of Evolution Society; founding board member, The Darwin 
>> Project; founder: The Big Bang Tango Media Lab; member: New York 
>> Academy of Sciences, American Association for the Advancement of 
>> Science, American Psychological Society, Academy of Political 
>> Science, Human Behavior and Evolution Society, International Society 
>> for Human Ethology; advisory board member: Youthactivism.org; 
>> executive editor -- New Paradigm book series.
>> For information on The International Paleopsychology Project, see: 
>> www.paleopsych.org
>> for two chapters from
>> The Lucifer Principle: A Scientific Expedition Into the Forces of 
>> History, see www.howardbloom.net/lucifer
>> For information on Global Brain: The Evolution of Mass Mind from the 
>> Big Bang to the 21st Century, see www.howardbloom.net
>>
>>------------------------------------------------------------------------
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