[Paleopsych] The prefection of democracy

Geraldine Reinhardt waluk at earthlink.net
Wed Nov 10 16:58:34 UTC 2004 

I think most Americans, especially those who don't use computers on a daily 
basis or who don't own one, like the idea of being "up to date".  They feel 
a sense of pride and accomplishment when they complete their ballot via 
machine and smug when they view another voter experiencing some difficulty 
with the "new" technology.

A paper trail, similar to a readout tape on an adding machine, sounded good 
in theory but too costly to implement especially when less than 2% of the 
voting public actually used a paper ballot .   As I mentioned previously, in 
my precinct, only 5 people had requested a paper ballot.  This proved to be 
a bit annoying for me since there were 5 voting machines for the majority of 
voters, and 1 voting booth for those wishing a paper ballot.  That could 
have been one reason why the voting lines were so long.

It's humorous that you claim the majority in Congress were put there by 
voting fraud.  I wonder if they know who they are?

If the purpose of a democracy is to allow everyone, regardless of race and 
sex,  the right to vote, then we may have achieved our goal, perfect or not.

Gerry Reinhart-Waller
Independent Scholar
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~waluk
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Steve Hovland" <shovland at mindspring.com>
To: "'Geraldine Reinhardt'" <waluk at earthlink.net>
Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2004 8:46 PM
Subject: RE: [Paleopsych] The prefection of democracy


>I think your cynicism is justified.
>
> I find a lot of discussion about paper trails,
> but no actual systems.
>
> People say Congress should enact laws
> requiring paper trails.
>
> But if you have a majority in Congress that
> was put there by machine fraud, you would
> expect them to want to continue their
> status quo.
>
> Hence the "Fascist States of America" flag.
>
>
>
> Steve Hovland
> www.stevehovland.net
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Geraldine  Reinhardt [SMTP:waluk at earthlink.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2004 7:13 PM
> To: Steve Hovland
> Subject: Re: [Paleopsych] The prefection of democracy
>
>
> Yea, great.  Have you "seen" these voting machines with a print out?
>
> I doubt if they exist.
>
> If indeed they are a reality, they should be listed on the www.  So far, I
> haven't found reference to them.  Have you?
>
> Gerry
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Steve Hovland" <shovland at mindspring.com>
> To: "'Geraldine Reinhardt'" <waluk at earthlink.net>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2004 6:52 PM
> Subject: RE: [Paleopsych] The prefection of democracy
>
>
>> Voting machines can have printout just like
>> your home pc does.
>>
>> I have seen pictures of machines that show
>> the voter a paper with the choices she made
>> and then they can press a button to accept
>> the result.
>>
>> That's just a small part of the system.  All
>> of the internal programming and external
>> communications also needs to be hardened
>> and audited.
>>
>> Steve Hovland
>> www.stevehovland.net
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Geraldine  Reinhardt [SMTP:waluk at earthlink.net]
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2004 4:23 PM
>> To: Steve Hovland
>> Cc: paleopsych at paleopsych.org
>> Subject: Re: [Paleopsych] The prefection of democracy
>>
>> Steve,
>>
>>>>The problem we have is that the now we, the
>> American people as a whole, have lost control
>> of these systems and will be the victims of
>> those who do control them until those systems
>> are made honest.  >>
>>
>> Any suggestions how to making voting machines honest?  In the precinct
>> where
>> I voted, we were offered a choice of electronic voting or a paper ballot.
>> I
>> had expected that these voting machines would somehow record a paper vote
>> but that wasn't the case.  Are there actually machines that offer a paper
>> readout or this this simply another urban legend.
>>
>> Gerry
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Steve Hovland" <shovland at mindspring.com>
>> To: "'Geraldine Reinhardt'" <waluk at earthlink.net>
>> Sent: Monday, November 08, 2004 8:41 PM
>> Subject: RE: [Paleopsych] The prefection of democracy
>>
>>
>>> The simple fact is that the voting machines
>>> were built to be hacked, and they were.
>>>
>>> As a person who makes a living gathering
>>> requirements for computer systems, I can
>>> tell you that the lack of audit trails and
>>> paper printouts was not a mere oversight.
>>> It was the design.
>>>
>>> The problem we have is that the now we, the
>>> American people as a whole, have lost control
>>> of these systems and will be the victims of
>>> those who do control them until those systems
>>> are made honest.
>>>
>>> The best hope we have is that all of the FOIA
>>> requests will result in embarrassing lawsuits
>>> that will lead to improvements by 2006.  The
>>> game THEY are playing is that with 2-4 years
>>> of control they can do so much that it will take
>>> decades to restore the previous order.
>>>
>>> Steve Hovland
>>> www.stevehovland.net
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Geraldine  Reinhardt [SMTP:waluk at earthlink.net]
>>> Sent: Monday, November 08, 2004 7:53 PM
>>> To: Steve Hovland
>>> Cc: paleopsych at paleopsych.org
>>> Subject: Re: [Paleopsych] The prefection of democracy
>>>
>>> Then if many have doubt about a sophisticated election process, they
>>> should
>>> relinquish the right for a "democratic vote" and allow "powerful man" to
>>> make the decison
>>>
>>> Is shift from imperfections of Democracy being superceded by thrust of
>>> Totalitarianism?
>>>
>>> Gerry Reinhart-Waller
>>> Independent Scholar
>>> http://www.home.earthlink.net/~waluk
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Steve Hovland" <shovland at mindspring.com>
>>> To: "'Geraldine Reinhardt'" <waluk at earthlink.net>
>>> Sent: Monday, November 08, 2004 1:50 PM
>>> Subject: RE: [Paleopsych] The prefection of democracy
>>>
>>>
>>>> Check this:
>>>>
>>>> www.avirubin.com/vote.pdf
>>>>
>>>> On the surface, the machines worked just
>>>> fine.  But below the surface, monsters ruled :-)
>>>>
>>>> To me, all of the analysis about "the voters this,
>>>> the voters that" means absolutely nothing.
>>>>
>>>> I don't think the voters decided this election, nor
>>>> will we decide any future election until we clean
>>>> up the security issues and establish comprehensive
>>>> audit facilities to demonstrate the legitimacy of
>>>> the elections.
>>>>
>>>> Steve Hovland
>>>> www.stevehovland.net
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Geraldine  Reinhardt [SMTP:waluk at earthlink.net]
>>>> Sent: Monday, November 08, 2004 1:40 PM
>>>> To: shovland at mindspring.com
>>>> Subject: Re: [Paleopsych] The prefection of democracy
>>>>
>>>> Only if you don't believe in the democratic progess and viability of
>>>> machines.
>>>> From what I'm able to glean, it seems that voting machines did their
>>>> thing.
>>>> Even in Florida.
>>>> Too bad Mencken was overly educated when compared to rest of 
>>>> electorate.
>>>> That would make
>>>> him is the less than 2% of American public.  And that ain't a voting
>>>> majority.
>>>> Get used to it.....America is filled with plains folks and conestoga
>>>> wagon
>>>> travellers.  There are only a few
>>>> places where the "blues" can hang out and that includes New England and
>>>> the
>>>> west coast with a smattering on our north central border.
>>>>
>>>> Gerry Reinhart-Waller
>>>> Independent Scholar
>>>> http://www.home.earthlink.net/~waluk
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>> From: "Steve Hovland" <shovland at mindspring.com>
>>>> To: "'Geraldine Reinhardt'" <waluk at earthlink.net>
>>>> Sent: Monday, November 08, 2004 12:38 PM
>>>> Subject: RE: [Paleopsych] The prefection of democracy
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> The colors have no relation to the one's
>>>>> you were seeing of late.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think our democracy is perfectly broken
>>>>> at the moment.  Prognosis unknown.
>>>>>
>>>>> Steve Hovland
>>>>> www.stevehovland.net
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Geraldine  Reinhardt [SMTP:waluk at earthlink.net]
>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 08, 2004 12:20 PM
>>>>> To: The new improved paleopsych list
>>>>> Cc: shovland at mindspring.com
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Paleopsych] The prefection of democracy
>>>>>
>>>>> The link works well.  Who colored in the states?
>>>>> Has democracy finally been perfected?
>>>>>
>>>>> Gerry Reinhart-Waller
>>>>> Independent Scholar
>>>>> http://www.home.earthlink.net/~waluk
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>> From: "Steve Hovland" <shovland at mindspring.com>
>>>>> To: "'The new improved paleopsych list'" <paleopsych at paleopsych.org>
>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 08, 2004 12:07 PM
>>>>> Subject: RE: [Paleopsych] The prefection of democracy
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> here's where I got the fax numbers I use to
>>>>>> talk to congress:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.visi.com/juan/congress/
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Steve Hovland
>>>>>> www.stevehovland.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: Ross Buck [SMTP:ross.buck at uconn.edu]
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 08, 2004 11:22 AM
>>>>>> To: 'The new improved paleopsych list'
>>>>>> Subject: [Paleopsych] The prefection of democracy
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and 
>>>>>> glorious
>>>>>> day
>>>>>> the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> White House will be adorned by a downright moron."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>> paleopsych at paleopsych.org
>>>>>> http://lists.paleopsych.org/mailman/listinfo/paleopsych
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>>>>>> paleopsych mailing list
>>>>>> paleopsych at paleopsych.org
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>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>

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