[Paleopsych] the welfare state

[Steve Hovland]

And what is your final solution for the useless eaters?

Steve Hovland
www.stevehovland.net


-----Original Message-----
From:	Lynn D. Johnson, Ph.D. [SMTP:ljohnson at solution-consulting.com]
Sent:	Thursday, November 25, 2004 5:47 PM
To:	The new improved paleopsych list
Subject:	Re: [Paleopsych] the welfare state

I am willing -- all who have worked for me are paid a living wage.
Oh, wait! You mean the GOVERNMENT should guarentee these things!

And where does the government get its money to do as you want? They take 
it away from people like me who are productive and give it to those who 
are not. That reduces my ability to pay employees a living wage.

Living wage laws -- government imposed -- reduce the number of jobs to 
low income people, hurting the ones you pretend  to help. This is well 
known. More people out of work. More people in misery. Sounds like a 
typical left wing bit of nonsense.

We are not a family and we are not just a collection of people. We are 
remarkably productive and free people because our government doesn't 
meddle in our affairs as much as you would like. We can do better by 
steadily reducing the dead hand of government pressing down on the 
ability of free people do accomplish great things.
Steve Hovland wrote:

>If we don't want welfare, are we willing to
>provide everyone with a job that pays a
>living wage?
>
>Are we a national family or are we just a 
>bunch of people who happen to live in the 
>same place?
>
>Steve Hovland
>www.stevehovland.net
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From:	Hannes Eisler [SMTP:he at psychology.su.se]
>Sent:	Thursday, November 25, 2004 8:22 AM
>To:	paleopsych at paleopsych.org
>Cc:	aaer at psychology.su.se
>Subject:	[Paleopsych] the welfare state
>
>Living in a welfare state myself I have a few comments.
>First, we have to distinguish different groups. One group consists of 
>people who cannot help themselves: mentally ill, retarded, 
>alcoholics, junkies, etc.
>To be brutal: I don't want to see them running around on the street and perish.
>But also as a fellowman I want to help them, not privately but by 
>gladly paying taxes.
>Second: The welfare state's intention is to redistribute your (own) 
>income over your life cycle. An example: You get paid a certain 
>amount for every child (from your taxes) as long as children are dear 
>(in more than one meaning); when they are grown up and do not cost 
>anymore your taxes are considered a repayment. This is valid for all 
>citizens, though no personal humiliation. It works automatically.
>Sickness is something similar; you pay only a part of the costs of 
>visits to physicians and medicines. However, as a healthy individual 
>you can earn money and pay taxes, so the government (i.e., the 
>taxpayers) may make a profit.
>Finally there is a group whose income does not cover their living 
>expenses, or people who cannot handle money. Again, part of them may 
>have gotten into some kind of trouble, say having become a victim to 
>a fraud, and need some monetary help. For them there is another kind 
>of social welfare; they have to ask the pertinent authority in person 
>with all the entailing humiliation. But this is only a small part of 
>the Swedish welfare state.
>But there is some trouble ahead. Many young people (according to 
>interviews) don't place work as central in their lives as their 
>parents and grandparents did. And many people claim to be sick when 
>just feeling bad (not an outright cheat) which raises the amount of 
>costs to unbearable high levels.
>We shall see how the welfare state will develop. As yet cannot Sweden 
>be compared to the pre-Thatcher UK as Lynn Johnson described it.
>I may add: when I was about ten years old I thought it a shame to 
>work for money--note: not to work in itself, but to earn money for a 
>living.
>  
>

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